U.S. aircraft carrier and part of its escort “sunk” during drills off Florida

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: LoveSolMoonDeath

They do have great ASW. No ASW is perfect and if a sub skipper is patient enough he's going to get his target.

Sub warfare is all about patience and capitalizing on that one good mistake.

Human error is a mother in a world of ship killers, especially a ship with 100 aircraft and 5k lives aboard.

Dambed cheese eating surrender monkies, they must have really pulled quite a trick off.

Hats off to the frenchies, that is hard core, our anti sub nets are top notch, somebody must have dropped s sonar bouy in the wrong spot, leaving a gap in the detection grid.

originally posted by: Aaamok88
a reply to: LoveSolMoonDeath

It just goes to show you that US is delusional

They can get sunk by the French of all people, and yet they are pushing at borders of Russia and China risking a war with nations capable of serous war

France has had one...just one military catastrophe once.

The majino line in ww2.

Other than that one time the French have always been a military power.

We Americans get a good laugh about the old "cheese eating surrender monkey" thing, but they have a very powerful modern air force and ground based military.

Their fleet is lacking, but why spend money on it when america has a bigger more powerful fleet than the next 20 most powerful nations navies combined?

originally posted by: Aaamok88

originally posted by: Shamrock6
"There's two kinds of ships: submarines and targets."

"Good" ASW isn't perfect ASW. Carriers get sunk all the time in exercises.

Excess excuses

Just implore the United States to only keep attacking the defenceless small nations

I wouldn't be pushing Russia or China into the corner

Lol why, the Russia navy is pathetic and so is the Chinese.

If you add them both together they are about 1/30 of the US navy.

The US navy has over 10 Nimitz class super carriers.

If you add russia and chinas entire carrier fleets together, they don't even have 1 super carrier, because they both only have 1 tiny carrier each.

Neither had the as capability of aegis neither has a single sub even close to as good as our worst sub....

Bottom line, the US navy could kill both Russia and chinas navies at the same time.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Aaamok88

I have literally no idea how what you said pertains to the OP, let alone what I said.

I award you no points, and may God have mercy on you.

"Flawless victory!!"..."fatality!!!!"

Loved billy Madison, was a great movie!!!

Wouldn't a large group of small underwater drones be a good screen underwater for a Carrier Group?Sorta like CAP patrol, but underwater.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
I don't know as much about Navy systems, but the Air Force has a number of "Real war use only" systems that are never used in training with foreign aircraft. Not even our closest allies.

I really though about this one and it makes sense: always keep a joker in your hand for later on...

originally posted by: jackjoedoe
a reply to: noeltrotsky

That is the downside of a diesel sub though it can only run submerged for as long as its batteries will keep the propeller moving.

You're right but it seems they made huge progress from days immerged to weeks with liquid oxygen tanks like the Swedish subs has

www.naval-technology.com...

They're so efficientt that US NAvy hired them to play 'ennemis'

foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com...

a reply to: LoveSolMoonDeath

During one recent multi nation exercise involving F-22s, the French Air Force was caught flying Rafaels with electronic pods around the edges of the training area scooping up every electronic signal they could.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
I don't know as much about Navy systems, but the Air Force has a number of "Real war use only" systems that are never used in training with foreign aircraft. Not even our closest allies.

In the Navy, the "Real war use only" systems are your own attack submarines.

a reply to: mbkennel

It's called electronic warfare. If you didn't use your own submarines in peace time they wouldn't be ready for war now would they.

originally posted by: jackjoedoe
a reply to: noeltrotsky

The life of a submariner is...unique to say the least.

The reason the diesel boats are so much quieter is in the way they operate. A diesel submarine only runs its diesel while it is on the surface or when it is snorkeling (just a large snorkel sticking out of the water for the diesel air intake). While the diesel is running it is charging huge banks of batteries. These batteries are what actually power the boat while it is submerged. The electric motors (using the battery power only) used to turn the propeller shaft are specially built to be very quiet running. That is the downside of a diesel sub though it can only run submerged for as long as its batteries will keep the propeller moving.


If anyone has questions about life on a submarine that I can answer (within my legal ability to do so), ask away.

The life of a submariner is indeed quite unique. I've seen enough of this stuff just in the yards on different boats to gauge this for myself...including some of their training and quals. I've worked around a lot of A gangers and torpedomen.

I can tell you for sure ..that they have great chow. In the yards on graveyard shift..we always tried to be in good with the cooks ..if for nothing else..ice cream and sticky buns.

I laugh when I read this stuff..but understand your limitations..some of mine as well.

The reason the diesel boats are so much quieter is in the way they operate.

I will just say .that not everything is to be found in Janes Fighting Ships..and for good reason...or for that matter on line.

Someone posted this..

While conventional subs are very quiet in all electric mode, my experience was that they all had noisier propellers.
In exercises, we were almost always able to pick up a submerged conventional, just from the low frequency blade rates.

We had the hardest time picking up our own nukes. If we did get them, it was usually from auxiliary artifacts, hardly ever the blades. I know the Navy did extensive research on modal analysis of the nuke blades in manufacture, and tuned them to minimal cavitation, along with some unique physical designs. That was almost 40 years ago, so I would imagine this only got better. On the analysis side, that equipment certainly got a lot better as well.

This poster is correct..I've seen some of these blades/wheels..installed them on the boats. It is a lot of hard work.

Design and engineering wise ..the basics of what they have done over the years is move the speed at which cavitation takes place on the blade..up higher on the knots scale. Tuned and fine tuned is exactly correct. That is all that need be said on this. And they are still working on it today.

You guys want something to think about ...go to Google Earth..and look up Bremerton, Washington. That is where the Navy sends its olde ships which have been decommissioned and awaiting final disposition. The olde Carriers are parked there...the Constillation and others..decommissioned. What is also there are a lot of submarines tied up to the piers..decommissioned...several deep..side by side...olde 688s and one of another class. Lined up like sardines without the can.
These are the early 688 class boats..witout bow planes...and without VLS on them. But there are a lot of them there.
Look at them ...and think about what is not there to see.

I've done this all across America... and in Mumbai...in Polyarny and Murmansk.. In Australia outside Perth at that island joined by causeway...Garden Island..In the UK at Faslane, Plymouth...Barrow in furnace....Rosyth...in Vladivostok...and other places.

I just took a look at Bandar Abbas on Google Earth....in Iran...you can see three kilo class boats..one in drydock. Also three of the Ghadir class Iranian submarines tied up side to side at the piers. Lots of other navy ships tied up there as well.

Someone years ago..posted here about these Iranian Ghadir class boats when they were new and also posted photos. I had to hold back my laughter on that when I saw how the hatches were built and the antenna and periscope masting was made...having installed tested and pulled maintenance on both on our boats... also how a snorkel is installed and tuned up/tested. You just know...that's all. One look at the photos and you know.

But..everyone has to start somewhere.


Google earth is a very interesting tool if you know what you are looking at. The only thing is how olde are the photos.

One of the most fascinating places to me and worth observing from time to time is Diego Garcia. Some of you probably know why. I'm not sure if that is in Jane's as well.

Free...no cover charge,

Orangetom


I'm going to add this in edit function. I have been going back to Google Earth tonight and once again looking at Bandar Abbass.

I found two more of those small submarines at the opposite end of the bay..but what was of most interest is the mock up of a Nimitz class aircraft carrier parked there at the piers. It has planes upon it.

I know that on our ships and unless an aircraft has a major malfunction of systems that it cannot take off, all planes are removed from the flight decks and aircraft carrier before the ship makes port. These planes fly off to a nearby navy base. The ship mostly arrives empty of aircraft and helicopters. On this mock up carrier you see aircraft all over the deck. No tow tugs..no support equipment start carts, generator carts. You do not see jet blast doors or arresting gear...nor any sign of elevators. This tells me how olde this photo is. When was it that they went through that drill/training exercise of attacking this mock up carrier??

Well..that is what their mock up carrier looks like before they attack it.

I love when some dingdong wanders into one of these threads and starts talking about how vulnerable the U.S. military is against the Russians and Chinese. Even without considering the closest allies of the U.S...

The U.S. currently has 10 aircraft carriers, 53 attack subs, 14 ballistic missile subs, and 62 destroyers.

Russia: 1 carrier, 35 attack subs, 13 ballistic missile subs, and 14 destroyers.

China: 1 carrier, 59 attack subs (mostly conventional), 6 ballistic missile subs, and 24 destroyers.

Yeah, we're quaking in our boots...

originally posted by: Aaamok88
a reply to: LoveSolMoonDeath

It just goes to show you that US is delusional

They can get sunk by the French of all people, and yet they are pushing at borders of Russia and China risking a war with nations capable of serous war

The French are a first world country with a first world military force they are part of NATO.

I don't worry so much about the character or quality of our Navy or other branches of the military. I worry much more about the quality of leadership.

At the same time what also concerns me greatly is that I know that much of our top brass in all the branches of our military has been replaced by Politically reliable types..not shooters. Understand?? This greatly worries me.

I would rather have shooters with experience in top positions in our military..for they of all people know the seriousness of going into a shooting war and loosing people .....and also the quality and character of real leadership..no matter what branch of the military.

Just my .02,

Orangetom

For once, i have to say, the French are scary in matter of naval battle tactics, scary opponent.

I got to thinking something about my previous post concerning the Iranian carrier seen I the view on Google Earth.at Bandar Abbass. Something about it does not seem correct.

I am not that computer savvy or know much about CGI or photo shop..but the shadow angle to the pier does not seem correct when compared to the shadow angle of other structures in the view.

Do any of you know more about computers than do I?? Or is it called computer generation???

Is that what some here on ATS call...Photo shopped??

With what I have seen on the Nimitz and Enterprise class ships I know automatically to look for certain deck gear missing from the image at Bandar Abbass...but not computer generation techniques.

Orangetom

originally posted by: orangetom1999
I don't worry so much about the character or quality of our Navy or other branches of the military. I worry much more about the quality of leadership.

At the same time what also concerns me greatly is that I know that much of our top brass in all the branches of our military has been replaced by Politically reliable types..not shooters. Understand?? This greatly worries me.

I would rather have shooters with experience in top positions in our military..for they of all people know the seriousness of going into a shooting war and loosing people .....and also the quality and character of real leadership..no matter what branch of the military.

Just my .02,

Orangetom

What war would you prefer those "shooters" have served in?

This isn't the 80's when top brass were primarily Vietnam vets. The only "shooters" that would be of a high enough rank to be considered top brass were junior officers during Desert Storm which lasted 14 weeks.

The closest you're going to get are a handful of officers who were mid to high-ranking field officers (O-4 and higher) that led troops during the first few years of OIF and have since been promoted. Even then, they certainly weren't anywhere near the front line and didn't pull a trigger.

a reply to: orangetom1999

In the Google Maps sat view of Bremerton, Washington I see tons of 688's all with no screws. Then there is this one other boat sitting out of the water. It has a propulsor shroud but if you zoom in enough to actually get a good look at the thing. She's gone!!!!! As if they don't want people getting a look at the screws.

Answer,

What war would you prefer those "shooters" have served in?

"


Good question here Answer.

However..I think I did not properly phrase my statement in the previous post.

By 'Shooters" I mean a shooters attitude and training...verses what you see more and more and in increasing numbers in offices across the land today... Civilian and also in the military..."SJW's" Social Justice Warriors." and such attitudes.


Understand now?? I am referring to politically correct people..verses real "Shooters."

Now perhaps that might clear it up a bit.

I refer to this article if it is even true.

www.prisonplanet.com...

I have been hearing stories like this going back to the Clinton Administration where it became very noticeable how many military people were putting in their papers and suddenly getting out. It became an Exodus.

This Exodus continues today.

I am not just talking here in the Flag ranks so to speak...but all the way down the chain. Politically reliable people being put and promoted into key positions. I am talking about a purge here...a pogrom if you like.

This goes much deeper than this ...but this should suffice for now.


Orangetom

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: orangetom1999

In the Google Maps sat view of Bremerton, Washington I see tons of 688's all with no screws. Then there is this one other boat sitting out of the water. It has a propulsor shroud but if you zoom in enough to actually get a good look at the thing. She's gone!!!!! As if they don't want people getting a look at the screws.

Hello Olde Man,

Good to see your post again.

Ah....excellent you caught that ..no screws. It was obvious to me as well. For the screws are a one of a kind item and also confidential. My question is did they pull the shafting as well and just install a welded or fitted watertight blank over the shaft hole..for the shafts are carefully fitted to that particular screw. This would also relieve any concerns about watches needing to keep tabs on possible leaks through the shaft or inflatable seals.

As was the case with previous nuclear submarines these boats will be cut up and scrapped as money comes available.

One of those boats in the pack of sardines ..is not a 688 class boat. You have to look carefully but you can spot it. Bottom row..third from the left.

Yes..I saw that boat with the propulsor. That is a Virginia class boat. There are two of them in that view. Any of them out of the water will be covered up at the propulsor with a large heavy duty fitted tarp...as are most wheels out of the water.
Yes..certain aspects of the screws and or propulsor are confidential.

I am not for certain but there is a 688 boat...and next to it a barge with a small boat on the barge. I believe that is the olde NR 1 submarine. I had heard that it was decommissioned. Probably about time too.. She is in rough shape just like the USS Enterprise. Very small reactor on her.
I've heard a couple of stories from guys who served on her. Very interesting and will pucker your backside.

Good catch Bassplyr..good catch.

Orangetom