Are microwaves safe to use?

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: Bedlam


See and that like just your opinion man.. and its not based on any science like you are making out..

Well, let's see. Two samples, no blinding, use of photoshop to provide "evidence".

I'm going with "limited value" for the whole experiment.

The reason that the microwaved water kills plants is because it contains no oxygen. So please stop talking down to peeps like you no everything..

Evidently i have seen you be wrong a few times in this thread now..

Why do you think microwaving water would remove the oxygen from it, more than just heating the water to the same degree?

Please point out the wrong bits. I'll wait.

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: Bedlam

Lita Lee report was in the lancet the one of the world's oldest and best known general medical journals. But no thats not good enough for you..?

I'm sure they know that you can isomerize milk with a boiler as well. Do you even know what isomers are?

I also find it interesting that supposedly in a published peer-reviewed Lancet article, she uses the phrase "It's bad enough that many babies are not nursed, but now they are given fake milk (baby formula) made even more toxic via microwaving." To the point that I doubt the article exists, it's probably worth seeing if it did.

If it is capable of changing the structure of blood because of uneven warming then it will do the same to food. Look to me like you are debating for the same side as me..

Purp..

The point of cooking food is to change the structure. One might not want to do that to live red blood cells.

originally posted by: VoidHawk
Extremely hazardous to......food!!!

For drinks etc they are fine but personally I think they ruin food, cant beat a blazing fire

The opposite is actually true. The reason that microwaving food is better than both boiling and frying is because the food loses the good properties the longer it is heated. Boiling takes a long time and will degredade the food faster than a few minutes in the micro.... so...

a reply to: Bedlam

Why do you think microwaving water would remove the oxygen from it, more than just heating the water to the same degree?

Thank you for waiting. Dissolved oxygen in tap water will be far higher than in microwaved water because heating water makes the oxygen leave..

Purp..

She didn't write it. Does she state that she did? There's a paper by Lubec that is probably where it came from originally. But she's not an author on it.

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: Bedlam


Thank you for waiting. Dissolved oxygen in tap water will be far higher than in microwaved water because heating water makes the oxygen leave..

Purp..

Then if her experiment didn't heat the tap water to the same degree and for the same time, it is invalid. Excuse me, even more invalid than it is.

originally posted by: GoShredAK
I'm pretty sure they zap the nutritional value out of food.

I'm paranoid, so I haven't used a microwave in about three years.

I will continue not to as well, I just don't trust them.

You lose more nutrients heating food slowly in water or on a frying pan. The key is the amount of time the food is at high temperature, and by high I mean 50 C or so, from that point one every minute takes something out of your food.

a reply to: Bedlam

I'm sure they know that you can isomerize milk with a boiler as well. Do you even know what isomers are?

I also find it interesting that supposedly in a published peer-reviewed Lancet article, she uses the phrase "It's bad enough that many babies are not nursed, but now they are given fake milk (baby formula) made even more toxic via microwaving." To the point that I doubt the article exists, it's probably worth seeing if it did.

I can see you are feeling threatned and trying to talk down to me. There really is no need. I do know what isomers are. You could try being more helpful on the thread and explain to peeps that basic isomers and just different chemicals compounds with the same amount of the same types of atoms..

If you find it intresting if what published on the lancet report then go and look for yourself. There are plently of other scienitst that have said similar things..

Hertel and Blanc were told that ifthey published their findings about mircowaves and the damage they can cause would face hefty fines or go to prison.

Well the papers have been released. Have a read its interesting stuff..

Two researchers, Blanc and Hertel, confirmed that microwave cooking significantly changes food nutrients. Hertel previously worked as a food scientist for several years with one of the major Swiss food companies. He was fired from his job for questioning procedures in processing food because they denatured it. He got together with Blanc of the Swiss Federal Institute of Biochemistry and the University Institute for Biochemistry.

They studied the effect that microwaved food had on eight individuals, by taking blood samples immediately after eating. They found that after eating microwaved food, haemoglobin levels decreased. “These results show anaemic tendencies. The situation became even more pronounced during the second month of the study”.

www.indigosun.com...

purp..
year in prison

Ok. Here's the scoop on Lubec 89, whence Lita Lee claims (apparently?) that she was an author in a Lancet article. She was not. Lubec et al 89 wrote the article.

It's been torn to shreds since. They do not cite what they did in the article to the microwaved formula. They DO say they heated the control with an 80 degree C water bath. But they leave out what they did on the microwave side. They don't cite the power level, the end temperature or the heating duration. Anywhere.

They were called out on this. It turns out that Lubec heated the microwave sample under pressure to 176 degrees C. That can't help but cause isomerization. You'd NEVER do that in a kitchen. Lubec didn't do it to his controls, either.

Four papers subsequent to Lubec 89 destroy their experiment's validity. If you like, I can give you the cites. But Lubec is a farce.

Mircowaves are bad for you anyone in doubt have a look at this.

Here is a break down of Hertel & Blanc study the one that got a gagging order on it..

The set-up seems plausible: they fed the participants the following meals
raw milk from a biofarm
the same milk conventionally cooked
pasteurized milk from Intermilk Berne the same raw milk cooked in a microwave oven
raw vegetables from an organic farm
the same vegetables cooked conventionally
the same vegetables frozen and defrosted in the microwave oven
the same vegetables cooked in the microwave oven

they then took blood samples and this is what they found

Significant changes were discovered in the blood of the volunteers who consumed foods cooked in the microwave oven. These changes included a decrease in all hemoglobin values and cholesterol values, especially the HDL (good cholesterol) and LDL (bad cholesterol) values and ratio.

further...

uk.yhs4.search.yahoo.com... cqry=

originally posted by: purplemer
I can see you are feeling threatned and trying to talk down to me. There really is no need. I do know what isomers are.

Then you'd know that chemical compounds can switch isomeric states on nothing but heat. And somehow forgot to state it. I'm not threatened at all, just irritated that you're being disingenuous if you know.

You could try being more helpful on the thread and explain to peeps that basic isomers and just different chemicals compounds with the same amount of the same types of atoms..

The difference between the cis and trans isomers of amino acids are in their shapes. Some aminos are chiral, and can have left and right handedness, the way your hands are mirror images. Unlike your hands, most amino acids can swap chirality between left and right with nothing more than heat. Like in this "experiment".

If you find it intresting if what published on the lancet report then go and look for yourself. There are plently of other scienitst that have said similar things..

I did. Lee is a liar, she had nothing to do with it. But Lubec did, and he hid the test conditions on the microwave sample. The experiment is invalid.

Hertel and Blanc were told that ifthey published their findings about mircowaves and the damage they can cause would face hefty fines or go to prison.

You really want to get into the Hertel crap? Are you familiar with how it was done?

I did a post on this years ago here when the last microwave thread storm went through, but here's a handy synopsis...

Mercola, like almost every other writer who expounds the microwave myth, includes the story of the Swiss food chemist Hans Hertel. In the late 1980s, Hertel and seven fellow vegetarians locked themselves into a hotel room, where they performed a two-month “experiment” that consisted of eating foods prepared in the microwave and by other means.

After two months of togetherness, Hertel emerged with a terrifying pronouncement: He had found changes that “appear to indicate the initial stage of a pathological process such as occurs at the start of a cancerous condition” in the blood of the men who had eaten microwaved milk and vegetables.

But…

None of the men in the study got sick.
The study was never published in a peer-reviewed journal.
Hertel never produced the data
Tthe study has never been replicated.
A sample size of four does not provide any significant information.

Hertel since seems to have disappeared (according to Mercola, a “gag order” from the Swiss government silenced him), but his story is alive and well on the internet.

Link

originally posted by: purplemer
Mircowaves are bad for you anyone in doubt have a look at this.

Here is a break down of Hertel & Blanc study the one that got a gagging order on it..

You won't be able to post a real citation to the supposed "gag order" because it's a Mercola fabrication.

They also never published a study. And they have a sample size of either four or eight, depending on whose "Hertel tale" you read.

It was never replicated. It wasn't blinded. There was no data.

Much like the "microwave plant water" experiment, worthless.

Linky!

It all started with Hans Hertel.
The Swiss food chemist and
seven fellow vegetarians confined
themselves to a hotel for
two months in the late 1980s.
There, they consumed milk and
vegetables prepared in the microwave
oven and in other ways.
Hertel emerged with an astonishing
pronouncement. Eating
microwaved milk and vegetables
caused changes in the men’s
blood that “appear to indicate
the initial stage of a pathological
process such as occurs at the start
of a cancerous condition.”
Hertel didn’t actually find that
microwaved food caused cancer.
And his “study,” which no researchers
have tried to reproduce,
was never peer-reviewed or published
in a scientific journal.
“Without knowing more
about how he conducted his
study, what he measured, how he
measured it, and what he found,
it’s impossible to even begin to
evaluate his findings,” says Barry
Swanson, a food scientist at
Washington State University in
Pullman.

Hey, the good thing is that Hertel is still alive and well, unlike the Mercolites who'd have you believe he was spirited away by evil household gadget vendors.

Nope, he gives lectures at the "World Foundation for Natural Science" the subtitle of whose webpage is "The New World Franciscan Scientific Endeavour of The Universal Church. Restoring and Healing the World through Responsibility and Commitment, in accord with with Natural and Divine Law"

Yeah, buddy.

a reply to: tastyrawmeat

For short heating it is ok

Don't cook with it, what it does it makes food rubbery

It is definitely not the same as heating on stove or oven

Those who say it is the same are people who have no idea what real food is, living of processed junk, no doubt will be dead by 55-65

Of course microwaves are safe. How else are you supposed to make Totino's Pizza Rolls?



Just DON"T put an Arby's sandwich in one. No...never do this. Those wrappers are tinfoil!

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: tastyrawmeat

Mircowave heat differs drastically from conventional heating methods. You can heat human blood up in a pan for a blood transfusion. If you put it in a microwave first and then use for a transfusion you will kill your subject.

They alter the biochemicals in food in ways that would normally require vast amounts of energy and they create chemicals that can cause cancer and the kill nutrients.

A group of scientists a while back released papers on the dangers of these beasts. Guess what they all had gagging order put on them..

They are not safe and best avoided..

Purp.

Have you got a link to the research papers you mention?

"If you do it right, cooking food in the microwave is one of the best ways to retain your food's vitamins and minerals"

Microwaves simply vibrate water molecules in such a way that they rub each other and heat up.
Your statements are irrational, unscientific and basically incorrect

Source

I took a cencer out of a microwave alarm
it sends a recives very low microwave.
this was 15 years ago! so they May not be as bad now?

i used the small cencer atach't to a voltmeter very low ceting.
and the edge around the door gives out microwaves.
so Dont stand very close looking inside!!!
you may get cataracts !

a reply to: Bedlam

What do you make of this ..?

Additionally, microwaving creates new compounds that are not found in humans or in nature, called radiolytic compounds. We don't yet know what these compounds are doing to your body, but they are not health-promoting.

www.greenmedinfo.com...

I don't use them. Water boiled in them and cooled down kills plants. Used them for dyeing wool and crafts but not food.

Reverse microwaves chill wine, they finally admitted to some use of reverse sine.

Reverse sine cancels out the frequency.

Like radiation. Haarp type technology would clean up the ocean and they know it. I don't know about the methane and all those underwater volcano's however.