Genetic link to autism

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: SubTruth

???? look you started name calling so I will not respond to that.

You started putting words in my mouth..........That's enough to upset anyone......Right. Look I have no idea what is causing this I hope they can find answers that help.



It could be anything including combinations of things including genetics. Also you should stop being a hypocrite......Calling someone ignorant is kinda name calling.......Right.

Back in the 1940s they did have a label.

"Oh, that's just Billy. He's just a bit slow is all."

I think it was the sixties when we started with the labels. Now, they have widened the spectrum to include many more people and yes, some of it is just throwing labels on people but some of it is not. If you swap the word 'Label' for 'Diagnosed' you are now in a position to get much needed help.

But hey, we can go back to the 40s and just label them all as slow. Personally, I prefer helping them and more importantly, helping everyone else to understand and accept them.

Lets all go back 150 years and just throw them all in the asylum.

Hmm, no thanks!

P

ETA. Remember also, back in the 50s and 60s, parents did not want their children labelled, there was a huge social stigma attached to it. Over the decades that has changed, albeit slowly, to the current situation where you need the diagnosis to get Govt. help. That in itself has skewed the numbers a great deal.

a reply to: boymonkey74

people who are retarded or crazy are the extremes of autism. I see kids who are introverts being put in this classification.

maybe we should start a new classification....screwed up people. Then we could just throw everyone in there and be done with it.

here is a site with a list of characteristics. www.calgaryautism.com...

I could put everyone i know into that list in some way or another. I guess everyone is autistic. its absolutely laughable when you start going through all the traits and characteristics. everything from farting to not getting the punchlines to jokes. i think a third grader could effectively diagnose someone with autism as long as they had the ability to point a finger.

I stand by my statement. Its a scam...clinical diagnoses re marketing. lazy at that. There will never be a cure because its impossible. Parents are trying to get this label placed on there kids in a lot of instances because they want the entitlements.

i suggest parents not only get second opinions but also third and even fourth. then maybe find a specialist. If someone tells you your kid has autism its the equivalent of a needle in a haystack in a field full of haystacks.

its also important to understand that all human being mature at different rates. In fact some never do. There are simply too many variables in human beings to standardize them under one label. Different is not necessarily defective and that the message that is being pushed to a lot of the good parents with good kids that are stressing out of this.

a reply to: korkythecat

Diet has played a huge part in the rise in autism.

In the evolutionary medicine paradigm, autoimmune disorders are diseases of civilization, caused by our highly inflammatory diets and stressful lifestyles. And, indeed, this theory brings together the possible "bad guys" we've discussed already, gluten, casein, and then other issues with modern lifestyle that I will discuss specifically in future posts, such as insufficient vitamin D (link is external) and poor micronutrition affecting brain health. I'm also pleased to say that after my first two "diet and autism" posts, a researcher has emailed me with some additional information and insights about gluten, casein, and suspected mechanisms, so I will be doing another post on that as well.

Source

But not perhaps the diet of the child, which nowadays is more than likely mainly processed foods... It may be the diet of the child bearing mother - or more accurately the lack of nutrients available to the developing fetus due to a recent previous pregnancy leaving the body deficient and/or poor diet whilst pregnant.

Since, during pregnancy, the fetus will tend to suck whatever nutrients are needed straight from mama, whether she can spare them or not, it is sensible that a nutritional explanation could account for the increased risk of autism in second children when the pregnancies are closely spaced. By nutrition, I mean anything from deficiencies in omega 3 fatty acids, to minerals such as zinc, magnesium or selenium, or depletion of the B vitamins, including folic acid. My suspicion is that small differences in nutritional status can increase risk at vulnerable times in the development of the fetus. The absolute causes, however, are yet to be discovered.

Same source as above.

To pin it down to one factor though would be wrong in my opinion.

So much has changed over the last five decades. Pollution, food available, personal habits, radio waves, wifi, mobile phones, education standards have dropped and discipline is rarely enforced to the levels which produced our respectful and intelligent parents and grandparents.

EDIT: I don't think you can dismiss the possible factor that pharma companies put pressure on health networks to sell their drugs.

a reply to: and14263

Diet that is a new one for me......I wonder if GMO plays a part in that. The whole bee thing vanishing was weird.

a reply to: SubTruth

During pregnancy the mother’s immune system is suppressed so that it does not fight against her fetus. Progesterone slows down the movement of food through the intestines and she becomes constipated –causing her blood to become more acidic and toxic. With acidic blood and a stiffled immune system systemic fungal and viral infections in the mother’s bloodstream become more acute causing serious inflammation and free radicals. Add in poor nutrition from the modern diet, high levels of stress during the pregnancy and often invasive medical interventions during labor and delivery and you have a fetus who begins life at risk for autism.

Source
The idea that modern day pregnancy is highly stressful has some weight behind it. Every young mother to be I know had a very stressful pregnancy. It was all about doing the right thing the right way and learning so much new information. It's a bad situation whihc is unhealthy for mother and unborn baby.

a reply to: agenda51

here is a site with a list of characteristics. www.calgaryautism.com...

I took the first five from that page just to make this point.

Very little or no eye contact.
Resistance to being held or touched.
Tends to get too close when speaking to someone (lack of personal space).
Responds to social interactions, but does not initiate them.
Does not generally share observations or experiences with others.

Every single one of those holds true for a child that has been physically abused or had bonding problems with one ot both parents. Children in state care (that is an oxymoron) will have these traits.

This goes for most of the items on that list.

For me, that list is useless, it is far too wide and encompasses children who are abused, highly intelligent, shy etc etc.

Wait a moment ........ there is a better word here ...... ah, yes

DIFFERENT

In this world where everyone should fit the one cardboard mold, we want to label everyone who is a non-conformist.

There are autistic people. There is no doubt. But lists such as this one are simply dangerous.

Talks excessively about one or two topics (dinosaurs, movies, etc.).

How many people do this. Take football as an example, or the two women discussing Honey Boo Boo.

Are they Autistic? Hmm. Lol.

P

a reply to: pheonix358

We're back to one of the old labelling theories again. In the modern world we are pressured to label people, behaviour and groups in order to develop strict psychological paradigms which dumbs us down. It stops us thinking analytically. We stereotype and group these people together when in fact, as you say everyone is different.

a reply to: and14263


I think you're onto something very relevant. Stress can do some pretty crazy things to people's systems. A modern woman's life is far more complicated than it used to be. Now you are pressured from all sides to have a career and still do the majority of housework, cooking, and childcare AND still try to stay upbeat, slim, youthful, and perfect. Your peers, your employers, your social network friends, and the media in all its forms breathing down your neck telling you what you should be doing. Plus, because of their work and financial demands women are trying to have families when they're past prime childbearing years.
You bring up a great point.

a reply to: pheonix358

now you have it. after researching autism I have come to the conclusion that myself, my wife, my kids, and everyone I know is autistic. If you meet someone for the first time chances are they are autistic as well.

In fact I would say if you meet someone who is not autistic it is best to stay as faraway from them as possible. They are some truely strange people.

also.. people who are autistic will share some of the characteristics but not all.....OK that tells me a lot.

and also again.... people who have ADHD/ADD will show some of these characteristics...OK so doesnt that mean they are autistic???

Its just a big clusterfluck. Its a way for Hospital clinics to provide services to groups of people and bill insurance companies. Guess who does the diagnosis...the Therapist at the clinic LOL. The hospital bills $200 + an hour, gives $40 -50 to the therapist during treatment. The parent insurance covers it. There is no cure of course of course for many because its just personality traits. Its all a sham. Manufactured, manipulated, and marketed for a new method of cashing in. Treatment sessions (many of which are the equivalent of playtime) dugs...you name it.

One of these days people just need to realize that the human being is very complex and everyone is different. Nothing wrong with it....heck I like it! I find autistic kids fascinating. I know a 5 years old who autistic boy who is a wiz doing pretty complex math. Incredible memory etc. He talks math all day. He can also read. He does this with very, very little instruction. He just picks up on things extremely fast. His parents think hes a freak because hes not like other kids and is not interested in typical 5 year old activities. I told them no kidding...thats because hes different! I then told them maybe they should look at getting some help for themselves.

Heres another one....Hyperlexia.... www.wisconsinmedicalsociety.org...

Yesterdays savant is todays Autistic child LOL.

all gifted children are autistic
all introverts are autistic
people who stutter.. autistic
politicians....autistic
method actors.....autistic
chess players....autistic
musicians...autistic
cats....autistic
dogs... autistic

Animal autism is a serious threat to the happiness and wellbeing of our household pets!

I can do this all day

originally posted by: and14263
a reply to: pheonix358

We're back to one of the old labelling theories again. In the modern world we are pressured to label people, behaviour and groups in order to develop strict psychological paradigms which dumbs us down. It stops us thinking analytically. We stereotype and group these people together when in fact, as you say everyone is different.

great post

originally posted by: SubTruth
a reply to: korkythecat

I wonder why the Amish have such a low autism rate.....

If the low autism rate among the Amish is real, the most likely explanation is upthread ... genetics. They are "socially isolated with little genetic inflow" (Pediatrics and Child Health).

Of course, the same social isolation could cause a lower rate of diagnosis than in communities that engage more with the mental health professions and social services, or it could cause a myth to arise that they have a lower rate of autism than the average.

I recently watched a debate of psychiatrists who were talking about current labeling of mental and intellectual disorders. One was saying that the current system has too many labels and perfectly healthy people who are just different are being labeled as ill. Someone else was saying that a lot of the labels are superfluous and that many names are for the same disorder citing manic depression and bi polar as an example. If there is one thing to take away from the debate is there is not a lot of consensus when it comes to the labeling of mental and intellectual disorders and perhaps this is something that needs a more comprehensive look into.

The diet theory is actually not as ridiculous as it sounds. We have only just discovered how the type and number of gut bacteria not only affects physical health but moods and behavior. The research into gut biodiversity has only opened up in the last five years but already there have been surprising discoveries especially in relation aggression and depression. Not to mention the increasing research into exercise sciences (the actual effects of exercise on the human body) which has also revealed surprising link with behavior and mood. As these fields are more thoroughly investigated who knows what we might discover.

a reply to: LifeInVirtual

There are people out there treating schizophrenia and bi-polar with diets. Some very intelligent members of a forum have tracked brain paths (not synapses but something I'm uneducated on) and have come to the conclusion various types of vitamin B are lacking. It is not recommended that you should pursue this route as getting the mix of vit Bs wrong can result in further illness and even psychosis.... however.... for people who are not happy on meds and have the time to research it's really positive news.

With regards to the labels. I feel doctors are trained to diagnose strictly. Using labels to name symptoms then using further labels to categorise these grouped symptoms. A hit or miss/trial and error approach is then taken with regards to medication.

Unfortunately mental health will only be fully understood when we disregard tick box diagnoses and strict labels. It seems every man and his/her dog who has unstable moods is labelled as bi-polar.

originally posted by: SubTruth
Yep but the fact remains Autism is rising and the Amish have a much lower rate. We should be studying why this is happening. I wonder is the Amish use GMO seeds....Hmm.

I cant say I know much about the Amish ... except that they keep
very much to themselves, and are rather secretive? If that is true
they would hardly go around advertising anything that could have
negative conations to their life. There for getting any accurate
data from them would be nigh impossible??

originally posted by pheonix385
But hey, we can go back to the 40's and just label them as slow.
Personally I prefer helping them and more importantly, helping
everyone else to understand and except them.

Of course there is a genetic link to autism. Thing is, it's kind of like a loaded gun. And it all depends on WHAT pulls the trigger of that loaded gun, which decides if you acquire autistic traits or not. That trigger which fires the DNA info into expressing autistic traits, is most usually, if not 100% tied into the environment a human develops in. Whether that be utero or in-utero. So autism could easily form from a mother or child consuming certain neurotoxins. To something as simple, yet complex as being born c-section - and not allowing for proper bacterial population of the gut (Butt to Mouth contact missed - a natural birth canal delivery), therefore decreasing the development of the bodies natural filter system, which filter out neurotoxins.

Keep in mind the one thing unique to autism is that people do not develop anything like this later in life. Clearly then, the trigger pulling is happening either in-utero or not long after being born. We are most prone to our environment in early and old age. Perhaps something like dementia or Alzheimer's is related, just on the other end of life.

Indeed autism is over diagnosed over a wide spectrum. But reality stands that for some (I'm not sure what percentage) it's not merely just a way of life. It is an affliction. I personally know people who on average, spend their waking moments in turmoil. To be fair, usually more than just autism is going on psychologically, but it does not diminish the fact that these people are not well, and it could all be related to a similar cause.

Indeed many can just go about their lives with little trouble, some needing support and perhaps intervention in terms of stabilizing medication. But overall will likely lead a pretty happy life.

That said, I'm grateful of the experiences and freedom I have without it.

I love ATS. But some members here are rudely ignorant. Just because you have a keyboard doesn't necessarily mean what come out of it has any value. At the turn of the 19th century one of the leading diagnoses was 'consumption'. Ultimately it included a wide range of disparate disorders that presented somewhat similarly. It became a 'catch-all' diagnosis. There are no simple tests for the majority of mental disorders. Most exhibit spectral patterns. Take schizophrenia. It was first identified in 1887. It wasn't until last year that it was determined --- through DNA mapping --- that what we call schizophrenia is actually 21 unique disorders that present similarly. And an individual can often have a combination of the 21. Autism will almost certainly have the same framework once the genome studies are completed. It presents with a broad range of symptoms and severity. Why the increase? More exhaustive evaluations, more awareness, less 'bucketing' as regarded, slow, etc., and very likely some combination of environmental factors that are triggering or exacerbating the condition.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: SubTruth

So you are saying we have not broadened the spectrum? that we diagnose it better now?.
But whatever man you keep thinking it is big evil pharma making folk autistic....carry on being ignorant about the subject.

yah...pharma is good...all they care about is health of the population. Period.

Anything else is pure innuendo.

/end sarc

As And14263 says

To pin it down to one factor though would be wrong in my opinion.

I completely agree.

So much has changed over the last five decades. Pollution, food available, personal habits, radio waves, wifi, mobile phones, education standards have dropped and discipline is rarely enforced to the levels which produced our respectful and intelligent parents and grandparents.

As a teacher of SEN I have come into contact with all kinds of kids with a diagnosis of autism, all very different. Some I can definitely say, yes autism but others I sometimes feel it's a lack of good parenting/modelling good social skills. A child learns from those around it and unfortunately some parenting skills, leave a lot to be desired. With regards technology, there are more children being plonked in front of computers/DVDs/games consoles etc. rather than mixing with other children and developing their social skills through trial and error.

I believe the same for ADHD/ADD where children don't have boundaries or clear expectations - again down to parenting and also for developmental co-ordination disorder (DCD), also known as dyspraxia, which is a condition affecting physical co-ordination that causes a child to perform less well than expected for his or her age in daily activities. Children aren't playing out as they used to and are being carried in a car seat, inside to sit in front of the TV in a chair and not doing what kids should be doing - running around, falling over and being physically active. This all has an impact on their development both socially and physically.

Of course that's not to say that there aren't genuine cases. From my experience of working with children with autism, ADHD and Dsypraxia I know that there are definitely children who need the diagnosis/label to get the help they need to ensure their barriers to learning are removed and that they develop into adults who are able to manage independently within society.

To the poster who said that people with ADHD often have autistic traits. The issue of comorbidity should be considered. Which is described as a situation where two or more conditions that are diagnostically distinguishable from one another tend to occur together. Studies have shown high rates of comorbid conditions among children with ADHD, including anxiety, depression, Tourette’s syndrome, oppositional defiant disorder, conduct disorder, and learning disabilities.

originally posted by: SubTruth
a reply to: korkythecat

I wonder why the Amish have such a low autism rate.....It really makes me questions things. Also why the sudden rise in cases and the trend is rising.....Why.




Personally I think something external is causing this.

Abstract vs. practical knowledge. Many people on the autistic spectrum excel at abstract thought. For some time now there has been a shift in the necessity for people to cultivate and excel at abstract vs. practical thinking. When the industrial revolution occurred this really shifted into high gear. Socially awkward, "strange" people that would not have been considered a good wife or husband in more rural and agrarian based societies (and may never have had children) are suddenly viable mates because they are able to succeed in the new system. This is particularly true for males (for many reasons) and so you have a rapid and increasing influx of people that for a long time were only marginally represented in the gene pool.

As our society becomes more specialized and ever dependent upon technology and abstract systems to hold it together, those with these traits become more and more successful and are sought as mates. The social awkwardness that would have ruled them out before is mitigated by their financial success and now they are just "quirky" or even an "eccentric genius". We have hit a sort of critical mass as people with these genetic mutations come together more and more and this can result in more extreme manifestations in their offspring. As with any mutation there can be manifestations that are not all that desirable and so some people do struggle but I do feel that many parents with autistic children are struggling with their own issues and making mountains out of molehills regarding their children's behavior. Don't get me wrong, there are those who really struggle and many of those have a host of comorbidities that may have a correlation to the genetic mutations (and some may not).

In short, we have been selectively breeding for this trait for the last few hundred years and after the industrial revolution we selected for it even more and after WWII even more, and since the computer age.... Well you haven't seen nothing yet in my opinion.

So, as far as the Amish... They are largely (although not completely) out of the post industrial loop. They are practical thinkers, they are not selecting as much for abstract thinkers. There are not many Amish computer programmers, nor is there a NEED for them. They need farmers and laborers.

I suppose it is outside forces that are shaping this in a way. They are human made and well... Social. We are breeding for more successful traits that work within our current survival strategy. It is changing us. Brains are plastic, they change quickly and the human brain, evolutionarily speaking, historically changes with lightning speed. I believe that this is what is happening.