The lie of Muslims not evolving out of the Dark Ages

a reply to: TonyS

I am not apologizing for Muslim extremist behavior of today. I am just trying to prevent racist opinions from taking root in the public's consciousness.

Look at how America handles racism. We let racist attitudes towards different minority fester and get worse and worse for decades. Then there is a social backlash about it and we have to spend even longer undoing the damage and unraveling the preconceived notions. We still haven't recovered from the racial damage we did to black people. Native American culture is all but forgotten.

Do you think it is a good thing to let the Muslim religion become another victim of this cycle of hate? Yes, there are bad Muslims, but there are also bad Christians. If we can forgive Christianity despite the actions of the few (how's that Catholic pedophilia scandal going?), we can forgive the Muslim religion for the actions of a few.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

As I have said before in other threads, my incredulity regarding the peaceful and tolerant nature of Islam has nothing to do with race.

This is one of the more unconstructive features of mohammedan apologism.

I absolutely believe that vast numbers of Arabs, Indonesians, Uyghurs, etc. are indeed innocent victims of the utterly repugnant scourge of humanity that is Islam.

a reply to: greencmp

I see the Muslim religion as no different than the Christian religion. If our roles were reversed, Muslims would be the Christian right and Christian fundamentalists would be blowing themselves up. Both religions breed intolerant fundamentalism. You have to look BEYOND the religions though and look at the people actually taking up these causes. Plenty of Muslims and Christians can practice their religion without hurting anyone else.

I also understand that Muslims mistreat women, homosexuals, and other minorities much worse than we currently do (I say currently because before the recent years, we treated minorities no better), but that is no reason to make war with them or hate them. Instead, we need to work peacefully with them to help them see the error of their ways. If the Christian world can overcome their history of insatiable violence towards its fellow citizens then so can the Muslim religion.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I do not think they are similar but, these are merely our opinions.

I just take issue with the idea that anti-muslim sentiment is racist somehow. How could it be?

Does your anti-christian position make you a racist?

a reply to: greencmp

Let's be clear, I'm just as anti-Muslim as I am anti-Christian. If it were up to me, we'd do away with all three Abrahamic religions. They are nothing but trouble. What I have a problem with is people equating the minority with the whole. There is a difference between not liking a religion and not liking the people because they are of that religion. I fall into the former camp for both Islam and Christianity. I'd rather condemn someone through their actions not their religion.

If there was a group of people going around trying to say all Christians are violent, superstitious, assholes I'm PRETTY sure more than a few Christians would be pointing out the error of that thinking. Yet we allow the SAME kind of attitude towards Muslims and not only do we justify it, we can't see the hypocrisy of what we are doing.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: greencmp
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I have presented as much evidence supporting my claim as you have.

Really? I don't recall seeing two links in your post, because I certainly posted two links to my claims. In fact one of those links appears in the sentence directly following the one you quote mined. But then again I also posted this topic in the rant section so there is that as well.

Dude...do you ever just discuss things with people, or must you always argue and be rude? You may have a bit of a anger issue. Worth looking into.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Uh... Did you see the posts I was responding to? It was rude one liner posts. He came in, said I was wrong and offered no explanation. Hell his posts were against the T&C for one liners. I think it is safe to say that he started it. So how about minding your own business? Care to address the OP?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Uh... Did you see the posts I was responding to? It was rude one liner posts. He came in, said I was wrong and offered no explanation. Hell his posts were against the T&C for one liners. I think it is safe to say that he started it. So how about minding your own business? Care to address the OP?

I'm not attacking you. I've encountered you before and didn't have any problem going back and forth. A discussion. I just wanted to point out you seem angry lately. I'm not calling you out...I'm not trying to insult you. Just thought you should hear one person's opinion about it. Especially from the other thread. Consider it a friendly observation...nothing more.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Oops! And on the OP...not my type of subject.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: TonyS

I am not apologizing for Muslim extremist behavior of today. I am just trying to prevent racist opinions from taking root in the public's consciousness.

Look at how America handles racism. We let racist attitudes towards different minority fester and get worse and worse for decades. Then there is a social backlash about it and we have to spend even longer undoing the damage and unraveling the preconceived notions. We still haven't recovered from the racial damage we did to black people. Native American culture is all but forgotten.

Do you think it is a good thing to let the Muslim religion become another victim of this cycle of hate? Yes, there are bad Muslims, but there are also bad Christians. If we can forgive Christianity despite the actions of the few (how's that Catholic pedophilia scandal going?), we can forgive the Muslim religion for the actions of a few.

You don't know Muslims like I know Muslims. I've lived and travelled in Muslim countries. Disliking Muslims has nothing to do with race; its a cultural thing. I never thought you were defending Muslim extremists. But let me give you an example of Muslim culture: a dear friend of mine met her husband at a local restaurant for lunch. She arrived first; when he arrived, he accidentally bumped a table at which a Muslim couple, (she in a Burka), sat and upset a glass of water which spilled water on the Muslim wife. He apologised. My friend and her husband left together, he walked to his truck and was confronted by the Muslim husband who shot him in the back of the head, killing him. Its an honor thing. The same type incidents are happening in the UK.

You see a Muslim woman in a burka at Costco, you'd best give her a wide berth.

So no, my "complaint" or argument is that serving up apologetics for Muslim culture only encourages the acceptance of Muslim culture into the US. I for one don't believe the two cultures are compatible; I in fact believe they're mutually exclusive. The Brits are learning that the hard way.

Why should the US have to learn this the hard way? How many have to die before the truth becomes obvious?

a reply to: TonyS

How well do you think I know Muslims? Because frankly, I happen to work with a bunch of them and there aren't random honor killings here at work when someone spills water on someone else's wife. The company I work at is predominately Muslim in fact. They call me "white boy".

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I'm getting sick of fundementalist muslims being bat # crazy and killing/raping anything they set their eyes on. But you know.. I'm a realist.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: TonyS

How well do you think I know Muslims? Because frankly, I happen to work with a bunch of them and there aren't random honor killings here at work when someone spills water on someone else's wife. The company I work at is predominately Muslim in fact. They call me "white boy".

Ha, Ha...well, good for you "white boy".

Watch your back!

a reply to: Krazysh0t

All the latest terrorist groups are direct results of US drone programs and invasions of countries like Libya and so on

But US government actually likes that because it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy,

You create more enemies more wars, more dead, more BS and propaganda for home front, more children growing up without patents

More tears at bed time instead of stories

I think there is a fine line between being "religious" and being insane. Religions are to a great extent reliant on "faith". People believe things if they choose to believe them. Reasons and rationality are not requirements of belief in religions. Faith is enough.

This pattern of behavior makes a virtue of credulousness. Religion promises rewards to fools.

On a very profound level, I think this is justified, because I believe that all of our experiences have a "mind created" component. In other words heaven is what you think it is. If you can convince a fool that he is going to heaven, he very likely will go to "heaven", in his mind, at death.

Unfortunately, the unscrupulous, with a pool of the credulous at their disposal, can make a lot of mischief, and the Koran is particularly accommodating to appeals to violence, more so than any other religious text. That's why the Muslims in the world have never stopped being at each other's throats.

I have known many wonderful Muslims, but Islam didn't make them that way. The common virtues of humanity, epitomized by the "Golden Rule", do unto others as you would have them do unto you, produced these fine people in Islam, as it produces them in all cultures and religions.

Islam, in the Koran, has dangerous elements of intolerance threaded into it. A pluralistic society, to preserve its character must guard against Islamicization. The only way to do that, realistically speaking, sadly speaking, is to limit Muslim immigration.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Well done OP. S&F.

Here's a good educational video about the dark ages etc..

John Green teaches you about the so-called Dark Ages, which it turns out weren't as uniformly dark as you may have been led to believe. While Europe was indeed having some issues, many other parts of the world were thriving and relatively enlightened. John covers European Feudalism, the cultural blossoming of the Islamic world, and the scientific and artistic advances in China, all during these "Dark Ages." Along the way, John will raise questions about the validity of Europe's status as a continent, reveal the best and worst years of his life, and frankly state that science and religion were once able to coexist.

Top 10 Reasons The Dark Ages Were Not Dark

I believe that we can safely say that the period of man’s history from 476 AD to 1000 AD is the most maligned of all. This period, known to historians as the Early Middle Ages, is still referred to by most laymen as the Dark Ages. In fact the term “dark ages” is almost as ancient as the period itself – it was coined in the 1330s by Petrarch, the Italian scholar, to refer to the decline of Latin literature. It was later taken by the protestant reformers (16th century) and then the members of the Englightenment (18th century) as a derogatory term with much broader implications, because they saw their own “enlightenment” as absent from the earlier period. Hardly a fair judgement on the past. Fortunately for modern students of history, the term is now officially known as the Early Middle Ages – a name which has no connotations at all. So, having given you the background on the terms, here are ten reasons that the dark ages were, in fact, a period of great progress and light.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

So do you disagree?

I disagree.

Muslims WERE living in the Dark Ages while Europe was also living in Dark Ages?

Yes. They Were.

Islam was BORN in the Dark Ages. It was spread by the sword during the Dark Ages, first across the Middle East, into Persia, and across North Africa. The Byzantines fought Islam because Islam first attacked them - they were fighting a war of self defense against invading hordes, as were the Sassanids. Both lost, plowed under by the wave of the thundering hordes.

During the Dark Ages, rather than being a seat of "morality and learning", Islam was hell bent on conquest, spreading itself by the sword into Europe through Spain first (710 AD), then pressing onward in an invasion and attempted conquest of France, halted and driven back by Karl Martel (battle of Tours) and later his son. Islam steamrolled the Balkans during the Dark Ages, and attempted to press onward and conquer Europe from the east as well as the west.

Islam conquered Sicily and Cyprus, and attempted the conquest of Italy from the south, razing even the Vatican and forcing the flight of a Pope.

Muslims were not the "noble savages" you paint during the Dark Ages.

They were just savages. Now ISIS has taken up that mantle to press onward.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: TonyS

I am not apologizing for Muslim extremist behavior of today. I am just trying to prevent racist opinions from taking root in the public's consciousness.

Look at how America handles racism. We let racist attitudes towards different minority fester and get worse and worse for decades. Then there is a social backlash about it and we have to spend even longer undoing the damage and unraveling the preconceived notions. We still haven't recovered from the racial damage we did to black people. Native American culture is all but forgotten.

Do you think it is a good thing to let the Muslim religion become another victim of this cycle of hate? Yes, there are bad Muslims, but there are also bad Christians. If we can forgive Christianity despite the actions of the few (how's that Catholic pedophilia scandal going?), we can forgive the Muslim religion for the actions of a few.

Racism?

Pray tell what race are Muslims?

From what I understand nowhere in the Quran does it condone violence at all or the commonly referred to 72 virgins idea. Those are in the Hadiths which are equal to the Christian books that were not included in the bible "Dead Sea scrolls" etc.

Most do not follow those beliefs but as someone said earlier that part of the world is uneducated. Our government uses freedom and patriotism as well as money and free college to get recruits. Over there they have no money, and no education. So they use their form or "patriotism" ..religion! And twist it to their needs to get these young uneducated people to join their cause. They have absolutely nothing better to do.

In civilized world we have gangs. They Kill hundreds of thousands of people a year. And people act like its so hard to imagine how these terrorists can do what they do. It's not much different. Killing someone is killing someone no matter how you do it. They do it in the name of Allah which is pretty much their only draw besides hating america. Gangs do it in the name of their territory, money, colors etc

Religion has very little to do with the evil we see instigated by these fundamentalists. They are simply evil or mis-guided people using Islam as an excuse to commit wrong doing. Not to say Islam hasn't influenced them, many quaran verses are utterly ludicrous. Still I would say Islam isn't inherently outright evil, many muslims are good people and majority muslim countries like Turkey in the modern age are relatively stable and prosperous.