Car used in Nemtsov Murder owned by Russian government Supplier

a reply to: dragonridr

And they allow government employees to take vehicles out to do a taxi service???

Well they do allow their military troops to take their weapons and hardware on vacation to another country to fight in a war, so then why not allow them to use gov't vehicles as taxi's.

a reply to: dragonridr

I do believe that orchestrating these kinds of things is specifically what the CIA does. Even in the face of "guranteed" exposure.

It is what they have been doing since their very inception!

originally posted by: elementalgrove
a reply to: dragonridr

I do believe that orchestrating these kinds of things is specifically what the CIA does. Even in the face of "guranteed" exposure.

It is what they have been doing since their very inception!

CIA does things not to get caught. Unless your trying to convince me the CIA is in control of Moscow this would never get approved. With all the security and even FSB in the area no way would they risk exposure. If it happened in a secluded area yeah sure at the Kremlin no way though know Russia has a servalence system on every street corner there. Any operation the CIA would attempt would be immediately shown to the UN. The whole world would no the next day the CIA ass in at ed him.

Reality is they are looking for someone else to blame other than where ever the lead on the car lead them. My guess a very high ranking official and the car wasn't being used as a taxi but was checked out 8 order to drive this person around.

The comments in this thread are a perfect illustration of why this murder was committed in the way that it was:

Most Russians do not understand what democracy is. They think that it is about personal popularity. So long as a ruler is personally popular, they have carte blanche to do anything they want. Popularity puts Putin above the law. They cannot even conceive of the dilemma faced by voters in a truly democratic system, forced time after time to choose the lesser of two evils.

As long as Vladimir Putin projects his handsome, morally upright action hero image, three fourths of the Russian populace will let him do whatever he wants. He is not bound by the law because he is the law, and if the media, which he controls, tells them that the convenient murder of one of his opponents was a "provocation by the West," they will happily suspend their disbelief. There are many posts on this thread expressing this attitude: the more the evidence points to it being a political assassination that benefits Putin, the more it must be a western provocation.

For those who love democracy and hate Fascism, and make no mistake, the "Leader Principle" outlined above is at the heart of Fascism, no-one is above the law. They are not blind to the trail of murders that accompanied Putin's rise to power: the dead journalists, the apartment building bombings, the genocidal war against Chechniya's secession. They understand that Putin fears democracy and therefore fears the truth. Because the system allows him to act with impunity, he can send a very clear message to the opposition by eliminating one of their number in the most obvious way, while officially pretending not to be involved. Some members here are painfully aware that Putin has sent these messages before.

The only fact in this case is that the state controlled media are telling us that the state's Ministry of the Interior is telling us that the vehicle in the crime was owned by the state,* and that the state operated surveillance cameras did not record the crime. Ask yourself: taken at face value, what are they telling you?

*The car was owned by a federal state unitary enterprise, which means that it was legally property of the state.

originally posted by: elementalgrove
a reply to: dragonridr

I do believe that orchestrating these kinds of things is specifically what the CIA does. Even in the face of "guranteed" exposure.

It is what they have been doing since their very inception!

Probably true, but what do you think the KGB has been doing all this time?

originally posted by: CharlesT
a reply to: noeltrotsky
I took a look at your post history. 95% Russia this, Russia that, Russia, Russia, Russia. Just an observation.
More like 99%

You could have saved yourself some time and looked at my avatar's name...noelTROTSKY.

The secrets out darn it! I'm interested in Russian issues. charles your middle name must be sherlock...

a reply to: noeltrotsky

Have you noticed that the most vocal supporters of Putin seem to lack a sound knowledge of Russia, its people, culture and history? I don't think that's a coincidence.

It is awkward arguing some issues with people that don't understand Russia too well. The place is pretty different from the West.

Speaking of strange, the moonlighting taxi story oddly fits in Russia. Of course not the part of the Killer grabbing a taxi right after the shooting, that's plain silly. But the car being out at night and used by some employee as a taxi is 100% Russian style. Of course that employee needs to explain how the car got used in this murder.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

You could have saved yourself some time and looked at my avatar's name...noelTROTSKY.

Leon Trotsky wasn't Russian, he was born in Ukraine, so he is Ukranian jew. And his real name was Leib Bronshtein
Just saying

originally posted by: DJW001
The comments in this thread are a perfect illustration of why this murder was committed in the way that it was:

Most Russians do not understand what democracy is. They think that it is about personal popularity. So long as a ruler is personally popular, they have carte blanche to do anything they want. Popularity puts Putin above the law. They cannot even conceive of the dilemma faced by voters in a truly democratic system, forced time after time to choose the lesser of two evils.

As long as Vladimir Putin projects his handsome, morally upright action hero image, three fourths of the Russian populace will let him do whatever he wants. He is not bound by the law because he is the law, and if the media, which he controls, tells them that the convenient murder of one of his opponents was a "provocation by the West," they will happily suspend their disbelief. There are many posts on this thread expressing this attitude: the more the evidence points to it being a political assassination that benefits Putin, the more it must be a western provocation.

For those who love democracy and hate Fascism, and make no mistake, the "Leader Principle" outlined above is at the heart of Fascism, no-one is above the law. They are not blind to the trail of murders that accompanied Putin's rise to power: the dead journalists, the apartment building bombings, the genocidal war against Chechniya's secession. They understand that Putin fears democracy and therefore fears the truth. Because the system allows him to act with impunity, he can send a very clear message to the opposition by eliminating one of their number in the most obvious way, while officially pretending not to be involved. Some members here are painfully aware that Putin has sent these messages before.

The only fact in this case is that the state controlled media are telling us that the state's Ministry of the Interior is telling us that the vehicle in the crime was owned by the state,* and that the state operated surveillance cameras did not record the crime. Ask yourself: taken at face value, what are they telling you?

*The car was owned by a federal state unitary enterprise, which means that it was legally property of the state.

You have a very healthy imagination. No one can deny you that.

Your distaste for state-owned media; however, is NOT healthy. Why would you trust a for-profit entertainment network who will say what ever you want them to say for enough money? And then put that network inside a state that has no laws about reporting factually or unbiased?

Ill take my state owned media over corporate any day. I would love to hear your reason for preferring corporate owned media.

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: noeltrotsky

You could have saved yourself some time and looked at my avatar's name...noelTROTSKY.

Leon Trotsky wasn't Russian, he was born in Ukraine, so he is Ukranian jew. And his real name was Leib Bronshtein
Just saying

Shhhh!!! Westerners don't know this! Trotsky was Russian and evil!

a reply to: MALBOSIA

You have a very healthy imagination. No one can deny you that.

And you have an unhealthy trust of State controlled media. No one can deny you that.

Your distaste for state-owned media; however, is NOT healthy. Why would you trust a for-profit entertainment network who will say what ever you want them to say for enough money? And then put that network inside a state that has no laws about reporting factually or unbiased?

Who says I trust for-profit media? And there are laws in this country that prevent fraudulent advertising. Also, when an independent news media ruins its credibility, it loses viewers. If it loses viewers, it loses advertising income. That is why it is scandalous when a television newsman is caught lying in this country, it can cost the network money. When that happens, the newsperson retires or is fired.

There are also countless print publications that have no State oversight. You can print absolutely anything you want in this country, provided it does not run afoul of libel laws that prevent slandering individuals with untrue statements. If you look hard enough, you can find the truth in black and white here.

Ill take my state owned media over corporate any day. I would love to hear your reason for preferring corporate owned media.

I assume that means that you trust what you see on Channel 1 and Rossiya 1. Do you honestly believe that the State has no reason to lie to you? At least in the West there are competing sources for news. It is possible to evaluate each source independently, compare the information, fact check and reach one's own conclusions. In Russia, there is only the official Kremlin story. You live in darkness.

a reply to: kitzik

Nowadays it would depend which side of the Dnieper he was born on. If he was born in Odessa, he was a Ukrainian Jew, if he was born in Sevastopol, he was a Russian Jew.

a reply to: DJW001

Oh wait I know this one that there investigation has ended because now they know it involves a government official. Did I win something?? This is the apartment bombings all over again as soon as the police realized the FSB wad involved.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

You still haven't answered the question: what does it mean when a State controlled news source tells you that a State ministry has announced that a State owned vehicle was used in a murder staged in front of State owned surveillance cameras, and those cameras saw nothing?

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: DJW001

Oh wait I know this one that there investigation has ended because now they know it involves a government official. Did I win something?? This is the apartment bombings all over again as soon as the police realized the FSB wad involved.

Very true. When people say the FSB wouldn't do such obvious things and in front of the Kremlin and with a government car no less I laugh. They clearly don't know about the FSB be caught red handed planting explosives in the basement of a building days after a different building was blown up.

I would post a link to read about it but I don't think the Pro-Russians are interested in hearing about it again.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: DJW001

Oh wait I know this one that there investigation has ended because now they know it involves a government official. Did I win something?? This is the apartment bombings all over again as soon as the police realized the FSB wad involved.

Very true. When people say the FSB wouldn't do such obvious things and in front of the Kremlin and with a government car no less I laugh. They clearly don't know about the FSB be caught red handed planting explosives in the basement of a building days after a different building was blown up.

I would post a link to read about it but I don't think the Pro-Russians are interested in hearing about it again.

People don't believe Putin would kill someone publicly but he's former KGB and that's what they did. They believed strongly in sending messages. The FSB is no diffrent. What was shocking is a truce had been broken. There has always been 2 groups battling for power and the fact they didn't want retaliation if the other group comes to power.

What's diffrent is aparently the message is being sent no one is safe anymore and all bets are off. Do not be surprised at this point if Putin does away with precious reforms democracy is dead iN Russia.

I think he put it best in a text the day before he died.

Boris Nemtsov: "We need political reform in the country. When all the power is concentrated in the hands of one person, and when that person rules eternally, it will all end in absolute catastrophe.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: MALBOSIA

You still haven't answered the question: what does it mean when a State controlled news source tells you that a State ministry has announced that a State owned vehicle was used in a murder staged in front of State owned surveillance cameras, and those cameras saw nothing?

It means that it belongs to the public. The ONLY news channel that I will watch is Canada's CBC - state owned.

Sorry, I'm not in the whole "down with the NWO" crowed. I respect government and support heavy regulations on "free" market. People with big mouths should be grateful.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: MALBOSIA

You have a very healthy imagination. No one can deny you that.

And you have an unhealthy trust of State controlled media. No one can deny you that.

Your distaste for state-owned media; however, is NOT healthy. Why would you trust a for-profit entertainment network who will say what ever you want them to say for enough money? And then put that network inside a state that has no laws about reporting factually or unbiased?

Who says I trust for-profit media? And there are laws in this country that prevent fraudulent advertising. Also, when an independent news media ruins its credibility, it loses viewers. If it loses viewers, it loses advertising income. That is why it is scandalous when a television newsman is caught lying in this country, it can cost the network money. When that happens, the newsperson retires or is fired.

There are also countless print publications that have no State oversight. You can print absolutely anything you want in this country, provided it does not run afoul of libel laws that prevent slandering individuals with untrue statements. If you look hard enough, you can find the truth in black and white here.

Ill take my state owned media over corporate any day. I would love to hear your reason for preferring corporate owned media.

I assume that means that you trust what you see on Channel 1 and Rossiya 1. Do you honestly believe that the State has no reason to lie to you? At least in the West there are competing sources for news. It is possible to evaluate each source independently, compare the information, fact check and reach one's own conclusions. In Russia, there is only the official Kremlin story. You live in darkness.

If your in the US, your media is not just manipulating you, it manipulates your government. Nobody gets elected in the US without the media's approval. Ask Ron Paul. Ask Ross Perot. Smarter than anybody that has ever been president and the US corporate media laugh and chuckle when they even say their names. Total manipulation.

a reply to: MALBOSIA

If your in the US, your media is not just manipulating you, it manipulates your government. Nobody gets elected in the US without the media's approval. Ask Ron Paul. Ask Ross Perot. Smarter than anybody that has ever been president and the US corporate media laugh and chuckle when they even say their names. Total manipulation.

You seem unable to believe that there are media outlets that are not run by evil corporations. Did you know that there's this thing called "the internet?" Anyone can post whatever they want on it in the United States. (Not so in Russia.) A healthy news diet should consist of portions of both mainstream corporate sponsored media from a variety of countries, as well as healthy portions of alternate media, all seasoned with a large dollop of critical thinking.

In any event, this is off topic. It seems to me when the State propaganda organs tell you that an enemy of the State was murdered in public by someone driving a State owned vehicles, the message is extremely clear.