UK Muslim agenda - what's going on here then?

originally posted by: grainofsand

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: grainofsand

And thank you for your response, but, I think you may have missed my question:

Is child abuse and exploitation a pan-Islamic or universally Muslim issue?

It is clear that in Rochdale, Rotherham, Halifax and Oxford it was a disproportionately high male Muslim abuser issue against white females.
Regarding any wider considerations of abuse by Muslims to female children, well I could easily name many Islamic states which treat their females terribly. Certainly it would not be much of a stretch of the imagination to consider that first generation UK Muslims who share such misogynistic views from their home nations might not find it difficult to rape white girls. It appears to be the case at least in Rotherham and Oxford.

and what is the solution to that? turn european women into a bunch of nuns?

A religion that finds 9 year old brides acceptable is one built on paedophilia, any other excuse is plain nonsense. Nonce-sense,geddit?
What a daft question.

a reply to: undo
Well the first step towards dealing with it is admitting that there is a problem with a section of the Islamic community, taking community leaders to task about turning a blind eye, then prosecuting every single one of them, including negligent police officers and social service staff.
Brushing it under the carpet for the last few years has just added to the problem, and I'm shocked that some folk still now on ATS do not wish to focus on the ethnic element to the problem. It is real, and can only be properly dealt with when we all admit that.

a reply to: Gryphon66

What is the "specific section" of the Muslim communities you're referring to?

Most of the research in this area that I have seen and read suggests that most of the people in these grooming gangs tend to originate from the more rural areas of Pakistan / Afghanistan and to a lesser extent North Africa.
The vast majority of the 'experts' in this field tend to agree - and as far as I recall the stats support this - that there is a hugely disproportionate occurrence of targeted grooming and systematic abuse of young girls within this section of Muslim communities.

This would suggest to me that it may indeed be a cultural problem rather than a religious one - but what do I know?

But the refusal to accept that there is a problem, regardless of it being cultural or religious, only serves to help prolong the problem and hinders any elimination of it.

I'm certainly not saying paedophilia and / or sexual abuse is an issue exclusive to this particular demographic, sadly its all too common an occurrence across all social strata's and dogmatic beliefs, but this particular type of grooming is hugely disproportionate within this particular group.

And is it a system only found in the UK Muslim communities, or, are you arguing that it's a widespread pan-Islamic issue?

I honestly don't know.

I do know that the members of these particular grooming groups justified their abuse through their belief that their victims were somehow inferior due to them being young, non-Muslim females.

The sad fact is that the victims were considered not worthy of our protection and somewhat inferior until it became politically expedient for them to be so.

Got to dash, got an important appointment - with the pub - and I'm running late.

a reply to: Freeborn

I have no real idea why this situation was allowed to occur, nor why it seems to be presented in such a way that the media is focusing on the religion of the offenders when I have no doubt that some white christans behave in this manner too.

I do think it was allowed to go on for so long partly because the victims were "poor whites" if the child of the head of area social services had been targeted I have no doubt the situation would have become public a long time ago. Part of the problem was the vunerability of those targeted, hence they didn't feel able to speak out before.

Just to clarify, I am not working on this case in any capacity, my position is that I have an ongoing moral responsiblity towards one of the victims, much like that of a parent, however she is not my daughter. It is difficult to be honest given this is an ongoing case, but I personally gave over information in 1998 (I think) I didn't understand the implications of what I knew, but it is now clear that oxford social services would have known and they did nothing!!!!

a reply to: Freeborn

The thing is, at this point, I haven't seen one member suggesting that there is not a problem, because everyone knows that there is.

It may be socio-cultural in more rural Muslim communities; but as the OP is suggesting, these kinds of situations and circumstantial truths (Pakistanis are child molesters; Muslims are child molesters.) are used, as the OP said, as part of a political attack on Muslims not only in the UK but in America, and other parts of the world.

I am a non-theist. In general it is true to say I really don't like religion. So it is very odd for me to find myself insisting that Islam is not at fault here, because, in another way of speaking, Islam and every other organized religion is a throw-back to the Neolithic ... in my opinion.

But we live in a political world. Anti-Muslim sentiment PARTICULARLY in the US AND UK have been the justification for war and bloodshed for ... decades if not the better part of a century.

And what is the reason for that anti-Muslim sentiment? Because like it or not, in my opinion, what is at the heart of this is not Rationality vs. Muslim Barbarism, it's just the same old Christianity against Islam.

And that is where it seems to me like I and the rest of the world are being forced to a choice to eat feces or to eat feces with ground glass in it ... religion itself is the irrational monstrosity inherent in our cultures.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: skalla
Behave, it's nothing on the scale of Rotherham and Oxford, why try to imply it is?
The reason Rotherham and Oxford are big news is because it is so huge.
Sidetrack again, let's pretend there is no disproportionate problem with sections of the Islamic community in the UK.

*Edit*
Oh and 855 people self identified as Muslim in Cornwall in the last census, so 0.something percent.
www.cornwall.gov.uk...

How am i trying to imply it is the same, i am merely dealing with the poster's request for evidence, which does indeed match the figure clearly stated to him or her. The only implication there is you trying to imply i made a comparison.

And in the field of child exploitation at present, there does indeed seem to be a predominantly adult male heterosexual pakistani muslim community issue. Isn't it funny the distinctions we draw when we attribute some level of responsibility to a community?

a reply to: Fermy

Do you even know the question you asked, and how often a Census is taken? By all means, we can wait for the next one if you prefer.

a reply to: skalla
None of it is funny, and of course 98.whatever% of child sexual abuse in my area is by white non Muslim males. 100% in my professional experience as stated some pages ago.
I live in a 99.whatever% white non Muslim region of the UK, and to be honest I'm glad I do.

a reply to: eccentriclady

So would you say that it would be reasonable to describe the lack of action on the fact that the victims were of a lower socio-economic "class"? Or did you see that at all, regardless of perpetrator?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
It may be socio-cultural in more rural Muslim communities; but as the OP is suggesting, these kinds of situations and circumstantial truths (Pakistanis are child molesters; Muslims are child molesters.) are used, as the OP said, as part of a political attack on Muslims not only in the UK but in America, and other parts of the world.

I object to this view. All I have seen in the media and from politicians is a painful and concerted effort to remove religion and race from these revolting revelations. There is no media hysteria and politicians are not playing a game to demonise Muslims - in the UK at least. However, the fact that perpetrators of these crimes are Muslim men cannot be hidden, especially as there are now investigations going on. Trying to cover up the problem, is one of the reasons why this mess happened in the first place - an inability to face facts.

If there is a knee jerk from some press, than that does not make a systematic attack on Muslims.

a reply to: paraphi

I was responding to a specific conversation with another member. However, the force of the discussion overall (from OP's topic) is pointing to what you say isn't true.

So, regardless of the instances of child crime, you've seen no other evidence in the UK press of trends against Muslims?

(See the OP.)

I certainly see in the US, perhaps not so much against Muslim Americans per se (although that does happen) but against ISLAM in general. Everything that can be lain at the feet of the religion is by most on one side of the political spectrum at least.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Everything that can be lain at the feet of the religion is by most on one side of the political spectrum at least.

The events in Rotherham, Rochdale, Halifax and Oxford are abhorred by all faces of the political spectrum.

*Edit*
...at least officially.

originally posted by: grainofsand

it's nothing on the scale of Rotherham and Oxford, why try to imply it is?
The reason Rotherham and Oxford are big news is because it is so huge.

The reason it's not reported in Cornwall is probably because there is little prospect of a cover story since there are 855 Muslims in the entire county. If I could substantiate certain suspicions I have then I'd be making a lot of noise, rest assured. Anyway, this is a national problem and is certainly not specific to one particular type of people. I expect the Queen is in on it too.

a reply to: VigiliaProcuratio
Aw, are you crying for the poor Islamic communities up North who are now the victims of the law finding a disprportionte amount of Muslim men involved in child rape?

originally posted by: grainofsand

I live in a 99.whatever% white non Muslim region of the UK, and to be honest I'm glad I do.

I've lived in 99% Muslim areas and I have to say that I'd rather be back there right now. I just went to the shop and in 5 minutes I saw 4 separate girls aged around 17 who were blatantly on the game. It's rife and Cornwall is no exception.
 

a reply to: VigiliaProcuratio
Behave with your lame anecdotal assertions.

a reply to: grainofsand

Mmhmm and the snippet of my comment that you're responding to begins: "I certainly see in the US, perhaps not so much against Muslim Americans per se but against ISLAM in general."

Obviously, I was responding to another member about a specific matter in the United States.

But, in a wider sense, what face of any political spectrum would not abhor violence against children, wherever it happens?

They pushed for this so strong for so long and now they'll turn around and incite hatred.

They are creating problems, the situation will spiral out of control and they'll be there to save us with further policing of the populace. It would also be awfully convenient if the West was ever to have a final showdown with the Muslim world, in that case Israel will be deeply involved and may even be sacrificed.

They inundate us for decades in multiculturalism, they keep pushing stupid policies, they coddle and apologize brazen segments of middle age cultures emboldening them. They attack anyone that dares mention any problems relating to it, censuring all critics, heavily polarizing the population into two ever more extreme camps.
Then after enough time has passed the government and the media does a complete 180 and starts radicalizing and catering to the immigrant critical population that their idiotic policies created in the first case, a demographic that their policies have swelled and will continue to swell.

This is problem, reaction, solution and divide and conquer in action. These actions do not appear to make any sense but they actually achieve many objectives set out by globalist interests.

ISIS is certainly playing their part. I really wonder what the end game is. The West wouldn't just haphazardly, slavishly and unilaterally pursue the same exact policies without taking directions from globalist interests that transcends nation states. They don't leave those kind of enormous decisions up to fate, and there's no way they haven't had think tanks that foresaw this decades ago.

"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way."
- Franklin D. Roosevelt

I'm a critic of immigration. But will we the people buy into the hate fighting amongst ourselves or will we start asking questions about the people that create disastrous situations so they can impose further control on us?
We need to expose these people first and take control of our own fates, then we can start identifying problems and try to rectify them.

a reply to: VigiliaProcuratio

I've lived in 99% Muslim areas and I have to say that I'd rather be back there right now.

I'm sure we can arrange for a one-way ticket to Syria, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia etc for you.