Boris Nemtsov (Putin Critic) killed in the center of Moscow

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: JonStone
im not blaming anyone for his death. im just saying it makes no sense for putin to have done it. if evidence proves otherwise then i will surely change my mind.

How on earth will the evidence ever prove otherwise if putin himself is in charge of the investigation?
Zero chance he would incriminate himself.

The fact he has taken charge rings alarm bells.

a reply to: DJW001

there were snipers in odessa? u wot?

Nemtsov planned to reveal Russian links to Ukraine conflict: Poroshenko

KIEV (Reuters) - Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said on Saturday Russian opposition politician Boris Nemtsov was murdered because he planned to disclose evidence of Russia's involvement in Ukraine's separatist conflict.

Poroshenko paid tribute to Nemtsov, who was shot dead late on Friday, and said the fierce critic of President Vladimir Putin had told him a couple of weeks ago that he had proof of Russia's role in the Ukraine crisis and would reveal it.

"He said he would reveal persuasive evidence of the involvement of Russian armed forces in Ukraine. Someone was very afraid of this ... They killed him," Poroshenko said in televised comments during a visit to the city of Vinnytsia.

More than 5,600 people have been killed since pro-Russian separatists rebelled in east Ukraine last April, after the ousting of a Moscow-backed president in Kiev and Russia's annexation of the Crimea peninsula.

Kiev and its Western allies say the rebels are funded and armed by Moscow, and backed by Russian military units. Moscow denies aiding sympathizers in Ukraine, and says heavily armed Russian-speaking troops operating without insignia there are not its men.

(Story refiles to correct spelling error in second para)

(Reporting by Alessandra Prentice and Polina Devitt,; Additional reporting by Margarita Chornokondratenko,; Editing by Alexander Winning and Timothy Heritage)

The guy was against Putin.
he was against Russia involvement in Ukraine.
He was against annexation of Crimea.

Putin takes personal control of the investigation.

The only people who had cause to kill this guy would be Putin / kronies.

Even more bizarre is the response of the Russia government, who will leave no stone unturned unless it comes to investigating the possibility the Russia government was behind it, in which case it doesn't even enter their vocabulary.

Russian opposition mourns murdered leader Nemtsov

a reply to: Xcathdra

Poroshenko also said there was 9000 Russian troops and 500 Russian tanks in Ukraine...but couldn't provide any evidence. I'd be a little skeptical about anything he says....

a reply to: Rocker2013

Actually I did say I did not have sympathy for him. I do not have sympathy for someone who climbs a mountain and falls and dies either. I do not have sympathy for someone who fails doing things that are risky if they are doing it to gain prestige or power. Now if someone desires to change things, but does not want a position in the new government where he has power, then I would feel something for this person.

This guy wanted to acquire a leading position, that is what I feel was probably driving him from what I was reading about this person. Most people who make a lot of waves are swimming with the fishes.

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: JonStone

i read what you posted in quotes. i dont know what else to say to you there.

no if you had proof that Putin was tied to his murder i would definitely believe it. im not even saying he didn't have something to do with it. im saying it makes no logical sense for him to have killed him. im just looking at the situation objectively.

personally i think Putin probably has had people killed. he is a politician after all. but this guy? nah, i don't think so. this harms putin more than it benefits him. when something like this happens always look to who benefits.

I would say that having people killed is a bad immoral thing and he is corrupt person. He is from my point of view ego demonic in his behavior controlling a power pyramid where power and wealth trickles up. He is no Buddha in nature.

On the western side a power pyramid where power and wealth trickles up to the banking cartel, who owns and control the military industrial complex, who condones dictatorship all over the world using emotional propaganda, words like "democracy" to keep the population controlled and dreaming.

oops

a reply to: Xcathdra
And the only people to benefit is Putin and his government
for some its too obvious to recognize.

originally posted by: all2human
a reply to: Xcathdra
And the only people to benefit is Putin and his government
for some its too obvious to recognize.

My question is do Russians support Putin going into Ukraine to take over part of Ukraine or would there be internal problems in Russia?

I think Putin can sell an intervention/attack to a majority of Russians. If US can invade a sovereign country for bull# excuses why could not Russia. Pandora's box have been opened and now it is a free for all. Ukraine is a proxy war where US and Russian interest are battling it out where both sides do not put the value of life higher than getting control over the region.

The propaganda value on the western side of this murder is very high. Boris Nemtsov is probably more important as a martyr symbol than he ever was as a politician, so CIA would have something to gain from false flag.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

This has to be one of the stupidest threads on this board.

Why because it doesn't paint your boy Putin to be a hero?

Because no one in Russia will believe the FSB was behind it !

They way it was done. no one will believe it was FSB, if Putin wanted to make it look like he was behind it, he would have done it a much different way.

So page after page suggesting it was him to make a statement towards the people of Russia is just utterly moronic when no one in Russia will believe it was him.

So when it doesn`t send the message of fear to anyone in Russia and it only gives Western Politicians and Western media something to demonise Putin with, makes him that the logical suspect ?

Oh he had proof and was going to disclose something...yeah right, he would have just been arrested on some charges and put in jail.

So when there`s page after page of the most illogical conclusion being pushed as truth, this became one the most stupidest threads I have read so far.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
Because no one in Russia will believe the FSB was behind it !

They way it was done. no one will believe it was FSB, if Putin wanted to make it look like he was behind it, he would have done it a much different way.

So page after page suggesting it was him to make a statement towards the people of Russia is just utterly moronic when no one in Russia will believe it was him.

There are now tons of reports from opposition people in Russia about how chilling this murder is for them. How dangerous being in opposition to Putin really is.

www.nytimes.com...

Your statement is so far from reality as to clarify what your agenda is on ATS. Anyone who has enough braincells to breathe can see it.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

At most I can think of only two possibilities:

a) Attempts by anti-Russia factions to make Putin look bad and being behind this murder.

b) Russian patriots who carried it out to send a message to anti-Russia minded troublemakers.

a reply to: victor7

Dumb Russian patriots not helping is one indeed, and the other two would be SBU (Ukraine Secrete Service) or CIA.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
So page after page suggesting it was him to make a statement towards the people of Russia is just utterly moronic when no one in Russia will believe it was him.

If his popularity goes south due to long term sanctions and disastrous oil price drop (perfect storm) why not weed out the competition early? There will be a breaking point in all this no matter how hard the Russian people are. When that happens Russians tend to really flip hard. Lets not forget what happened the last times with the Romanov and how Stalin weeded out about 40 million people to secure his power.

a reply to: noeltrotsky

It has become a daily occurrence now to suggest I get paid to post...such a coordinated effort by a bunch on this forum doesn`t raise any suspicion of course.

a reply to: Xtrozero

how Stalin weeded out about 40 million people to secure his power.

Stalin was a psychopath who had no regard for human life. He sent people to Siberian camps just for showing up late to work by 5 min. Killings done by Stalin had little to do with securing power. Power is secured not by stomping on common people, it is secured by keeping mini power brokers in pockets like main politicians, army leaders, union bosses, business stalwarts etc.

originally posted by: victor7
Stalin was a psychopath who had no regard for human life. He sent people to Siberian camps just for showing up late to work by 5 min. Killings done by Stalin had little to do with securing power. Power is secured not by stomping on common people, it is secured by keeping mini power brokers in pockets like main politicians, army leaders, union bosses, business stalwarts etc.

There are two ways...

1. Your way as you suggest.
2. Fear.... Stalin used fear very successfully.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Because if you want to get rid of the opposition and make them fearful, you make it look like you`re behind it...car crash, heart attack, suppositious suicide, disappearance, etc.

There will be a breaking point in all this no matter how hard the Russian people are.

Russian people are informed enough to know what`s behind it all and are much better equipped mentally to digest something which they see as something which been brought upon them...they are not comparable to Westerns in that sense...it`s not like food rations just have started like in the Ukraine.

And oh yes the oil prices...the lower Rouble compensate partly the loss in revenues, that means the purchasing power of the ordinary Russians is a bit less, but its not in the same ball park as the Ukraine which saw an eroding of 4-6 times of the Hryvnia...it`s just Western propaganda media trying to make it way worse as it is (in the hope some Russians are reading it and tell others).

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Because no one in Russia will believe the FSB was behind it !

So you have discussed this with everybody in Russia, because you seem pretty confident of your statement?

They way it was done. no one will believe it was FSB, if Putin wanted to make it look like he was behind it, he would have done it a much different way.

So you know the Putin regime well enough to know how how they would kill the opposition...very telling.

So page after page suggesting it was him to make a statement towards the people of Russia is just utterly moronic when no one in Russia will believe it was him.

And yet he believed he would be killed by Putin...

Speaking to Russia's Sobesednik news website on 10 February, Boris Nemtsov said: "I'm afraid Putin will kill me. I believe that he was the one who unleashed the war in the Ukraine. I couldn't dislike him more."

www.independent.co.uk... tml

So obviously at least one does...as do others.

So when there`s page after page of the most illogical conclusion being pushed as truth, this became one the most stupidest threads I have read so far.

Other than some of your own.

It's illogical because it shows your buddy Putin in a bad light...which isn't unexpected coming from you.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Personally, I don't think you get paid to post. I think you trumpet the Russian propaganda line because you enjoy doing it. Whether the handful of people who follow your every post and star them t almost instantly get paid to do so is an open question.