Boris Nemtsov (Putin Critic) killed in the center of Moscow

originally posted by: Guenter

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
I should give the pro-Russian crowd a little acceptance however.

The CIA could have found Nemtsov worthless as an opposition force and sacrificed him at a critical time to make Putin look bad. If I was the CIA then I would consider the plan. Kasparov is a much better and credible opposition leader in my eyes, so eliminating his opponent and making Putin look like a dictator killing his rivals does have a value to it.

I usually do not agree/like your ways of talking about Russia/Putin, but this time you hit the nail on the head. Because looking Nemtsov record of achievement it was more and more a down ward trend from the original "wonder-boy". So that the West saw in him a less and less capable leader is more likely. So make him a martyr and blame Putin.

Appreciate that Guenter. The truth is that Nemtsov might not have been very useful. The reality however is that the CIA doesn't run around Moscow gunning people down with Makarov's right beside the Kremlin. The odds of the CIA doing this are slim. It's possible but I still think the CIA would find ANY opposition to Putin to be more useful alive than dead. It's pretty hard to cultivate an opposition to Putin without leaders.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sosobad

So no evidence then? Why bother replying if you had none?

You don't consider a pattern consistent with the crime to be evidence? Good thing you're not a detective.

You consider an accusation akin to being guilty? Good thing you are not a judge. Have you any evidence that Putin was involved in it? If not why did you reply?

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: Flatcoat
I see the "If you don't agree with me, you're a Russian shill." brigade has turned up. Generally denotes a lack of anything relevant to add to the discussion.

Coming from a guy that never provides any info, any links I'll consider your post the typical garbage you always post.

Speaking of garbage...this from the guy who has directly accused a number of members of being "Russian shills" and then has the huevos to quote the T&Cs.....

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sosobad

So no evidence then? Why bother replying if you had none?

You don't consider a pattern consistent with the crime to be evidence? Good thing you're not a detective.

You consider an accusation akin to being guilty? Good thing you are not a judge. Have you any evidence that Putin was involved in it? If not why did you reply?

Are you really going to play this game again? Where is the evidence that Ukraine or America is behind this? Why aren't you giving them flack for not having any evidence?

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: Guenter

originally posted by: noeltrotsky
I should give the pro-Russian crowd a little acceptance however.

The CIA could have found Nemtsov worthless as an opposition force and sacrificed him at a critical time to make Putin look bad. If I was the CIA then I would consider the plan. Kasparov is a much better and credible opposition leader in my eyes, so eliminating his opponent and making Putin look like a dictator killing his rivals does have a value to it.

I usually do not agree/like your ways of talking about Russia/Putin, but this time you hit the nail on the head. Because looking Nemtsov record of achievement it was more and more a down ward trend from the original "wonder-boy". So that the West saw in him a less and less capable leader is more likely. So make him a martyr and blame Putin.

Appreciate that Guenter. The truth is that Nemtsov might not have been very useful. The reality however is that the CIA doesn't run around Moscow gunning people down with Makarov's right beside the Kremlin. The odds of the CIA doing this are slim. It's possible but I still think the CIA would find ANY opposition to Putin to be more useful alive than dead. It's pretty hard to cultivate an opposition to Putin without leaders.

My own hunch is that some "Patriots" went a bit too far. As I said in another post, these guys can really screw you the political intent of what ever side you on.

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sosobad

So no evidence then? Why bother replying if you had none?

You don't consider a pattern consistent with the crime to be evidence? Good thing you're not a detective.

You consider an accusation akin to being guilty? Good thing you are not a judge. Have you any evidence that Putin was involved in it? If not why did you reply?

Are you really going to play this game again? Where is the evidence that Ukraine or America is behind this? Why aren't you giving them flack for not having any evidence?

You better ask the people who said that then, why ask me I gave already told you I didn't mention them. I posted an open question about evidence Putin done it and you replied with nothing. If you don't know of any evidence why answer?

Not playing any games, you are just to busy climaxing at the thought of showing up Putin you aren't reading posts properly or thinking straight.

originally posted by: Guenter
"Patriots" have been quite often the real "lone wolves" and F*** the outcome of politics big time. Just remember Sarajevo-1914. Or take the abortion clinic bombings/shootings of so called "true christians" and so forth. Fanatic patriots might "believe" they doing Putin a favor and in reality make things worse.

I don't buy the 'Patriots' story to be honest.

Nemtsov had lots of friends in Russia and was high up in the government not too long ago. Sure he was on the outs, but the guy was about as much 'don't touch' to any criminal. If you know Russia then you know that popular people don't get attacked without getting clearance to attack them. Otherwise your criminal career ends very quickly in Russia.

If Nemtsov got knifed in a club by a drunk then I might buy some crazy guy killed him in a moment of passion. However he got 4 bullets pumped into him from a Makarov from a car licensed just outside Chechnya. And no, they didn't take his wallet.

Hits like that on public figures don't happen in Russia without clearance from above. In this case that clearance would be needed by Putin. If you don't understand this then you don't understand how the real Russia works.

a reply to: sosobad

You better ask the people who said that then, why ask me I gave already told you I didn't mention them. I posted an open question about evidence Putin done it and you replied with nothing. If you don't know of any evidence why answer?

And I asked you why you were challenging the people accusing Putin without evidence but not the people accusing Ukraine and America without evidence. You still haven't answered, only made personal attacks... and that's your game.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

Hits like that on public figures don't happen in Russia without clearance from above. In this case that clearance would be needed by Putin. If you don't understand this then you don't understand how the real Russia works.

Here we tend to disagree a bit again. But I do know Russians very well, especially their way of thinking and so forth. But before we go into a big arguments. let's just rest it on this.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: victor7

Dumb Russian patriots not helping is one indeed, and the other two would be SBU (Ukraine Secrete Service) or CIA.

This is how crazy the Pro Russian posters are! It's the Ukrainian secret service! The fact that Nemtsov was actively working to show Russian troops inside Ukraine and stop Russian involvement there doesn't even phase these clowns from making up crazy and stupid theories!

a reply to: noeltrotsky

We've seen this movie before: depending on how much international pressure there is, there will be a manhunt culminating in the arrest of three or four "mafiya without code," who, at their show trial, will confess that it was a gambling, drug or prostitution debt affair.

originally posted by: Guenter

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

Hits like that on public figures don't happen in Russia without clearance from above. In this case that clearance would be needed by Putin. If you don't understand this then you don't understand how the real Russia works.

Here we tend to disagree a bit again. But I do know Russians very well, especially their way of thinking and so forth. But before we go into a big arguments. let's just rest it on this.

It's ok to disagree! I've had the luxury of speaking to a few extremely low level guys that work hard for a living. If someone they don't know even looks like a big shot at a club where they are drinking they won't touch him no matter how stupid he acts. It's a career ending move. They will get a name and run a check on it if they really have to.

Just the way it is..not only in Russia of course.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sosobad

You better ask the people who said that then, why ask me I gave already told you I didn't mention them. I posted an open question about evidence Putin done it and you replied with nothing. If you don't know of any evidence why answer?

And I asked you why you were challenging the people accusing Putin without evidence but not the people accusing Ukraine and America without evidence. You still haven't answered, only made personal attacks... and that's your game.

So let me get this straight, I post a question (not towards you) asking that if there is evidence that Putin done this, you come back with no evidence but expect me to answer your question? Why oh why are you asking me about Ukraine, for the last time ask the ones that said it and stop acting like a petulant child trying to get me to talk about it. Lol and you accuse me of playing games. If you didn't want to talk to me don't reply to my goddamn posts in the first place. See how easy that is.

PS Still you have posted no evidence.

Does Victoria Nuland have an alibi?

Looks like someone wants to start another "spontaneous uprising that has absolutely nothing to do with the US and butt hurt oligarchs" in Russia.

Given the coverage the BBC were giving it earlier this evening, you'd think that some world renowned head of state had been assassinated, rather than some opposition MP of a foreign nation that most people outside of Russia will never have heard of.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: noeltrotsky

We've seen this movie before: depending on how much international pressure there is, there will be a manhunt culminating in the arrest of three or four "mafiya without code," who, at their show trial, will confess that it was a gambling, drug or prostitution debt affair.

Yes...we have indeed! The ending comes quickly too! A couple guys will be caught within 48 hours. They will confess and go to jail. Russian justice is incredibly efficient!

double post

a reply to: noeltrotsky

The fact that Nemtsov was actively working to show Russian troops inside Ukraine and stop Russian involvement there doesn't even phase these clowns from making up crazy and stupid theories!

But, the girl at the place of the murder was from Ukraine, this is fact. Any honest detective would check this girl, her mobile phone etc. She arrived to Moscow from Kiev that same morning. It is not hard to track her if her mobile registered in Ukraine. Exact geolocation by mobile phone is trivial.
I'm not talking about motivations, just think about technical side. True, that Nemtsov mobile is also probably not hard to locate, yet he wasn't alone, so we have two possible routes.

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: Guenter

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

Hits like that on public figures don't happen in Russia without clearance from above. In this case that clearance would be needed by Putin. If you don't understand this then you don't understand how the real Russia works.

Here we tend to disagree a bit again. But I do know Russians very well, especially their way of thinking and so forth. But before we go into a big arguments. let's just rest it on this.

It's ok to disagree! I've had the luxury of speaking to a few extremely low level guys that work hard for a living. If someone they don't know even looks like a big shot at a club where they are drinking they won't touch him no matter how stupid he acts. It's a career ending move. They will get a name and run a check on it if they really have to.

Just the way it is..not only in Russia of course.

OH sure you correct on this. Just that during my service with country during the cold war I got a bit privileged to work with the Russians on "defusing" hot situations. So I got still a few friends and from my past experience I do know that some of them so called "patriots" had been damn close to causing this crap to go from "cold" to "Hot" in a matter of hours. So this is why I personally hunch for the "patriot".

originally posted by: Guenter

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

originally posted by: Guenter

originally posted by: noeltrotsky

Hits like that on public figures don't happen in Russia without clearance from above. In this case that clearance would be needed by Putin. If you don't understand this then you don't understand how the real Russia works.

Here we tend to disagree a bit again. But I do know Russians very well, especially their way of thinking and so forth. But before we go into a big arguments. let's just rest it on this.

It's ok to disagree! I've had the luxury of speaking to a few extremely low level guys that work hard for a living. If someone they don't know even looks like a big shot at a club where they are drinking they won't touch him no matter how stupid he acts. It's a career ending move. They will get a name and run a check on it if they really have to.

Just the way it is..not only in Russia of course.

OH sure you correct on this. Just that during my service with country during the cold war I got a bit privileged to work with the Russians on "defusing" hot situations. So I got still a few friends and from my past experience I do know that some of them so called "patriots" had been damn close to causing this crap to go from "cold" to "Hot" in a matter of hours. So this is why I personally hunch for the "patriot".

It might be, because the West is also known to not let a "good" crisis go to waste.

But seeing how Western media and Politicians are reacting again, I would not be supersized if it was an actual False Flag.

a reply to: canucks555

This does in no way show, prove or implicate Mr Putin in this death. Until
a full investigation is done Putin is as innocent as any of us.

IT could be someone who wishes to place Putin in this damaging light...How many world countries now are agaisnt Russia and Putin? How many of them have the ability and will to commit and act like this to further damage Putins name?

Some of you clowns think the US government is behind 9/11.....(which I laugh at) but if they could do that why couldn't they murder this opposition guy to further their goals????

The timing of this murder is very suspicious to me. Adding to the pressure on putin. WHY would he murder this guy right now with the worlds eyes already on him??