Florida deputy drags mentally ill woman through courthouse by shackled feet...video

a reply to: olaru12

Shes crazy, what else could they have done?

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Well said.

originally posted by: DMFL1133
I worked in the mental health industry from 1992 to 1998.

We would have been fired if we did something like that.

Were you a deputy working in a courthouse? Different rules apply.

originally posted by: antar
a reply to: olaru12

Shes crazy, what else could they have done?

I work part time for a forensic behavioral training facility for our local Police Dept; Training cops to learn crisis intervention .

They could have given her a few moments to compose herself, talked to her and shown some compassion. They also could have let a female officer talk to her. It would have made a huge difference.

Anyway this video has gone viral and Officer Johnson is going to find himself in the unemployment line soon! The Court doesn't need this kind of heat.

Karma's a bitch...

originally posted by: Tangerine

Wasn't she in a courtroom? She wasn't being quiet. That was the problem. Are they supposed to empty the courtroom and wait for the Mobile Crisis Unit to arrive? I think they did the most reasonable thing: they dragged her ass out of the courtroom in a way that did not injure her or the deputies.

Love your avatar video. That poor dog can't even back-talk to a cat.

Thanks for the avatar compliment.

She was in the hallway of the courtroom.

The court had just declared Rios mentally incompetent in a felony trespassing case. According to WSVN, Rios couldn’t say goodbye to her mother after the ruling, and was taken to a hallway. When she refused to sit on a bench, Johnson began dragging her through the courthouse.

What they could have done is what a lot of schools do for children of special needs with behavioral plans. When they become disruptive, take them to an empty room so as to not disrupt others. They could have kept her handcuffed for their safety still. Contact Mobile Crisis Unit to come in and calm her down. Or even if the psych doctor who diagnosed her as mentally incompetent to stand trial was still there, if she had a repoire with them, have them come in and talk with her to see if they could help calm her down. This has worked on my daughter numerous times. Not always 100% successful, but it's better than nothing. (Or in this case dragging her by a chain and having cuffs dig into her skin possibly breaking the skin open, setting her up for possible infections later.) You have to see, those metal cuffs are against her skin, when you pull on the chain, where is the metal going to go? If you wouldn't drag a dog in this manner, why would drag a human?

originally posted by: Anyafaj
originally posted by: Vasa Croe

Vasa, I'm sorry for what you've had to go through. I've lived it myself. I have a paranoid schizophrenic bio mom who took all her abuse out on me. My sister and brother never had to deal with it. I did. From birth to age 5. My dad remarried and as my stepsister became a teen, I bore the brunt of her abuse. She was bipolar. If you ask me, her mother had undiagnosed issues as well and that's where she got it from because she wasn't always playing with a full deck. I got to deal with my daughter being diagnosed missing part of her brain AND having autism and having emotional and mental issues because of it, along with physical abuse from that. Severe enough to almost paralyze me.

I also dealt with filing restraining orders and criminal harassment stalking orders against my ex-MIL because she got pissed I married her son without her permission while she was out of state. She would drive by the house and wake up my daughter, call all ours of the night and do hang up calls, run up onto the porch, knock and run away, call and threaten to paralyze me if she saw me on the street (I have a spinal condition). I had enough of her crud. She also has mental health issues.

Because I was moving to a Naval base, I offered a conditional discharge as long as she didn't follow me to the base. The prosecutor proposed it to her and she accepted. She behaved for a year and it was dropped. I've been there. I know when to say violent needs to be dealt with. And I know when it's not violent, they just need understanding.

When my daughter was violent, the reason why? She was mad because her father wouldn't call her to just say hi, and she had the understanding of a 5 year old, but the body of a linebacker. She just didn't know how to say, "Why, Mommy, Why won't he talk to me?" She told the psych nurse at a mental health hospital that, "Children sometimes hit their mommies to make their daddies come home." That's what she needed someone to talk to that wasn't me. Someone to understand her. Something I could NOT get her, for the life of me, in that blasted state at that time because of "cut backs". So instead I got the crap beat out of me until I was almost paralyzed. It took 5 psych wards, 3 states, and 2 weeks in jail to FINALLY get her into a group home!!

It seems that you have experienced a tremendous amount of dysfunction and violence. Perhaps you have developed a higher tolerance for misbehavior than most people and regard this woman's misbehavior as no big deal. She was ordered by a deputy to get up from a bench or chair and walk with him. She refused to do so. There are reasons why people who are going to be incarcerated (mental hospital or jail) are not allowed close physical contact with others: they could harm the other people; they could grab them and hold them hostage; they could pass or be passed weapons or drugs. Bottom line, she didn't follow the deputy's order.

a reply to: olaru12

From the video it seems that she was being disruptive and loud, crying in the public court room hallway. It also looks like she was hell bent on going to a cushy little rubber room rather than jail... more than likely heavy drug use was the main problem and the mental illness is just a biproduct of that. Granted, there are always more choices but the cops were just doing the only thing they knew to do to clear her from the public domain and into custody.

I do not believe that there would have been any time out for this lady except with a qualified expert that would have quietened her down, she knew what she was doing imho.

originally posted by: olaru12
On thing is certain....

all the arrogant " holier than thou " types are bringing down some heavy Karmic debt ....maybe not on themselves but their children or loved ones. Where will the compassion be then?

Sins of the Fathers...as it were.

Exodus 20:5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

(Deuteronomy 5:9)--"You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children,"

Puhleez. We don't believe in that silliness, either.

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: antar
a reply to: olaru12

Shes crazy, what else could they have done?

I work part time for a forensic behavioral training facility for our local Police Dept; Training cops to learn crisis intervention .

They could have given her a few moments to compose herself, talked to her and shown some compassion. They also could have let a female officer talk to her. It would have made a huge difference.

....

.

No, you THINK it would have made a huge difference. You don't know that. You don't know what previous experience this deputy had with this woman or how she behaved in the courtroom and between the courtroom and the hall in the courthouse. I think it's safe to say she was escorted out of the courtroom by the deputy who allowed her to sit down with her mother when he didn't have to. At some point, he told her it was time to leave with him and she refused.

a reply to: Tangerine

That was my take on it too.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: olaru12
On thing is certain....

all the arrogant " holier than thou " types are bringing down some heavy Karmic debt ....maybe not on themselves but their children or loved ones. Where will the compassion be then?

Sins of the Fathers...as it were.

Exodus 20:5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

(Deuteronomy 5:9)--"You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children,"

Puhleez. We don't believe in that silliness, either.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE / Hamlet Act 1. Scene V abt. 1601

originally posted by: Anyafaj
originally posted by: Tangerine

What they could have done is what a lot of schools do for children of special needs with behavioral plans. When they become disruptive, take them to an empty room so as to not disrupt others.

That's exactly what was being done: she was being taken from the scene of her disruptive behavior to another location. Sorry, but the entire world can't come to a halt every time someone pitches a fit--including mentally ill people. There are consequences for misbehavior and this consequence was pretty mild. If the deputy had yanked her hands behind her back and cranked her arm or wrist to control her, it would have been worse for her. If a couple of the deputies had man-handled her, it would have been worse for her. She still would have pitched a fit and screamed that she was being hurt.

In case you missed it: I worked in the mental health industry.

At any rate, the burden is now on you.

What are the rules?

How is it different?

Where may I find a copy?

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: DMFL1133
I worked in the mental health industry from 1992 to 1998.

We would have been fired if we did something like that.

Were you a deputy working in a courthouse? Different rules apply.

originally posted by: antar
a reply to: olaru12

Shes crazy, what else could they have done?

It's interesting to me that the minute someone throws out the "crazy" word it seems to become a catch-all excuse to rob someone of their dignity. I understand that the woman was being disruptive and that someone who is disruptive and potentially not firmly grasping reality can be difficult to deal with. That does not mean that it is a carte blanche pass to demean and brutalize them. Crazy is so often used as a justifier for this sort of thing. What we are really saying is "this person is acting in a way that I don't like and therefor I can behave in a way toward them that disregards their emotions, rights and human dignity." That is what crazy so often functionally boils down to within any social paradigm.

There was plenty else they could have done. They just didn't have to bother to take the time because this woman is not a person anymore... she is just crazy and that is all that she is.

originally posted by: Tangerine

It seems that you have experienced a tremendous amount of dysfunction and violence. Perhaps you have developed a higher tolerance for misbehavior than most people and regard this woman's misbehavior as no big deal. She was ordered by a deputy to get up from a bench or chair and walk with him. She refused to do so. There are reasons why people who are going to be incarcerated (mental hospital or jail) are not allowed close physical contact with others: they could harm the other people; they could grab them and hold them hostage; they could pass or be passed weapons or drugs. Bottom line, she didn't follow the deputy's order.

I have, but I've also dealt with my daughter when she's been mild for the last 2 years. She's very sweet and kind since she's been in the group home and on the right medication. I don't know what interaction this deputy may or may not have had, but neither have you really. There's never a call to drag someone around by a chain! A chain! I don't care. A chain hooked into cuffs around their skin. Anytime you yank on that chain, it digs the cuffs into the skin. If someone is mentally ill they lack the capacity to make a functional, and rational decision, sometimes that even means, standing up to stop the pain. Not always sometimes. We do not know just how severe this woman's illness is. It could very well be that severe. If my daughter were at her highpoint 5 years ago, she would be JUST LIKE THIS. If not worse. She would even be kicking and trying to bite the deputies and surrounding people. I know because she's done it. It used to take 6 deputies to take her down, yet my ex expected me to do on my own. Someone a foot a half shorter, and a good 50 pounds lighter. Back then, it couldn't be done. He was mad at me, so he stopped calling her during our divorce. And no matter how much I tried to tell him taking it out on her was wrong, I couldn't get him to see that, so we were in the psych ward of the ER every 2-3 days for an overnight stay. No lie. And this woman, the way she is on video, was how my daughter was with ER staff or cops. This was MILD! I got the Tasmanian Devil. Now she is stable, finally. I'd like to see her stay that way for as long as possible. She lives an hour from me and is stable enough to spend the weekends at my house without any violence. This would NOT have been possible 5 years ago. She would have been like this woman in the video or worse. So now I've had both ends of the spectrum. The mild, moderate, and the severe. I still say, as long as she wasn't attacking anyone physically, there was NO call to bring harm to this woman. No matter what my past has. I would still say it. The mentally ill are one of THE most misunderstood populations in the US. That needs to change. I don't hold grudges against my bio mom, and I certainly don't against my sister. I know they can't help it because they're not thinking with a clear head while they're unmedicated. And if that's an unpopular opinion, well, it won't be the only one I hold.

a reply to: Tangerine

was there a significantly better option? If so, what?

Well as others have mentioned perhaps a little patience would have gone a long way,perhaps even just letting her say goodby to her mother......she is mentally ill and does not have the cognitive function to understand her position....

a reply to: redhorse

Natural selection...

a reply to: Anyafaj

Relax, there is a time and place for everything and the crazy/druggie lady will get to see her mamama from a cozy little habitat where she will be fed plenty of drugs to keep her calm...

Natural selection...

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Tangerine

was there a significantly better option? If so, what?

Well as others have mentioned perhaps a little patience would have gone a long way,perhaps even just letting her say goodby to her mother......she is mentally ill and does not have the cognitive function to understand her position....

You do not know that she does not have the cognitive function to understand her position. When she was talking in the video she seemed fully aware of what was happening and why and was able to state her position. She was simply pitching a fit as recognized by anyone who has spent time with a two-year-old. Whereas a two-year-old can be incapacitated and transported against his will fairly easily, an adult can not. May I suggest that you volunteer to station yourself at that courthouse and sweet-talk people who are "acting-out" into being good little kids and not committing felonies? I suspect that your attitude will change the first time one of them punches out your lights.

I think you missed the part where she was sitting on a bench or chair in the courthouse hall talking to her mother. That would seem to indicate that she had been allowed to say goodbye to her mother. Take an inch, take a mile.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Listen I came into this thread hoping to band with others against the tyranny, the cruelty against a poor defenseless mentally ill little woman, BUT, with eyes wide open it did not appear to be so cut and dry.

If i'ts a fight I will fight but I see nothing out of line here other than a poor option for handling a bad situation. Not only was she in contempt of court but was disruptive to the very system and others who deserved their day in court as well.