The rich really -are- as bad as you think.

the rich are still more likely to lie, cheat, steal, manipulate, and break laws.

a reply to: KaDeCo

Depends whats at stake - they can also be far nicer because they can afford to be

originally posted by: nullafides
a reply to: Eunuchorn

And you do realize that water IS the ultimate solvent.

Don't you?

I only drink water but have no idea what your point is, lol

a reply to: Eunuchorn

This is what a majority of the studies indicate. I am guessing a lot of the people who are claiming I am advocating being 'mean' to rich people didn't bother reading the links to what I posted. It's a very interesting peek into mentality.

a reply to: Eunuchorn

Just like there are more obese people in the world, than people that are starving, by a long shot. So obviously the lack of food is not the problem.

It is man's inability to oversee himself and distribute that food effectively.

a reply to: iNobody

If you're curious:

The poor give more of their paycheck.
A nother source

The rich give more lump-sums

You're far more likely to find a rich philanthropist who out-gave everyone else, but far more likely to encounter poor people who will give more of their paycheck.

a reply to: Eunuchorn

The point I was making was intended to underscore the idea that your statement was pretty broad. To say that the disperse of wealth is a major cause of strife is about as open ended and easily derived "answer" to a problem there could be.

Your answer was going hand in hand with the "us vs them" surmise that I came to. I boiled it down to that because it is such a broad reasoning for a struggle that I see it as being of almost no real importance.

Might as well say that you don't like someone because they are white, or black. It's not the real problem, IMHO.

The real problem, IMHO, is the human condition.

originally posted by: nullafides
The real problem, IMHO, is the human condition.

IMHO, the problem is the inability of the majority to accept the human condition, not the human condition itself.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

The other way, is having the right values to become rich.

-Opportunism with lack of empathy
-Overwhelming pride
-Manipulator
-Liar
-Selfishness
-Devious
-Deceitful

Pfffft. There are people at every end of the economic spectrum with those 'values'. It's not a 'rich' thing. It's a 'worst of humanity thing'. There are good and bad rich folks; good and bad middle class; good and bad poor.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

But, that doesn't support the narrative of selfish, mean, money-grubbing Ferengi that every boy and girl has been conditioned to assume successful people to be.

a reply to: nullafides

I've known a few very kind wealthy people. I've known very nasty and rude ones as well. Of course individuals can not conform to the majority. Look at all of us on this site! I think this site is a wonderful demonstration of many people from vastly different backgrounds, and viewpoints, who all come together because we want to know more than the main-stream media feeds us. Love or hate our peers, we're a distinct community - which lies beyond the majority.

As for the companies, their policies. What do I expect? I expect they reflect the morals and values of the people who run them. Their morals and values tend to run more in the line of 'get what I can'. I do think it's an over-all group mentality. And again the studies do not reflect the person who had to earn what they have.

However; the implications are still pretty striking. As a group.

My observation of the rich is that they are hunted - everybody is after their stash and or a piece of the action. Its hard not to feel cynical of people and motives. Loose money is so corrupting that I would say everybody has a price that would put them in some sort of moral jeopardy and if not its because they lack imagination.

Anecdote:
I was behind a rolls at the lights and a beat up car pulled up along side the rolls and signaled the rolls driver. Rolls driver drops the window in response only to be flipped off by the other guy - Hoots all round - I laughed too.
Now that twit in the showy car has just become a little meaner.

originally posted by: ketsuko

And yet you end up your comment with a class warfare statement!

The guy in the $250,000 car cut me off because he's a jerk just like the guy in the $1,000 clunker who cut me off. Although it is also possible they made an honest mistake too. I've cut people off simply because I failed to see them. Am I a jerk?

Being a jerk is not something money buys you.

I was thinking what to say in response to this. The last comment I said about the being cut off in traffic is way too literal, it was making light in context to everything else I said. Yes it is possible - people make honest mistakes. But again the evidence shows rich people tend to be bigger jerks.

But y'all realize that isn't saying "only rich people are jerks". You should take time to read the studies, the ones from Berkeley are (IMO) pretty biased and as I stated, I think came to a conclusion that was off, that wealth causes these behaviors. I think that behaviors such as greed, manipulation, and such actually tend to result in wealth. However; the jerk that cut you off in the $1,000 dollar car STILL felt that his time was more important than your safety. So in the studies would state "He's probably middle class. " So the cut-off scenario still gives you the probable mentality of the person who did the behavior.

originally posted by: peck420

originally posted by: nullafides
The real problem, IMHO, is the human condition.

IMHO, the problem is the inability of the majority to accept the human condition, not the human condition itself.

And somehow you're able to separate that from the very condition and problem at hand ?

a reply to: KaDeCo

A company is not a "moral" or a "value." A company is an economic entity. It succeeds or fails based on how monetarily successful it is.

Now, the people in charge of the company have their own set of values and will carry out business based on those, but it is a mistake to anthropomorphize a big business by trying to talk about it as if it should "care" because it can't. It's not a human.

a reply to: KaDeCo

Which really kinda goes back to my issue with group think and the human race as a whole.

a reply to: KaDeCo

No, greed doesn't result in wealth. It's far more complicated than that.

A greedy person grabs all he can for himself and won't seek to risk it. It's his. A wealthy person actually has to risk his wealth in order to have a chance to make more. Many of the wealthiest people in our society came from nothing and had to risk everything to make it where they are.

Wholesale greed would have stopped them at any point in that process.

originally posted by: nullafides

originally posted by: peck420

originally posted by: nullafides
The real problem, IMHO, is the human condition.

IMHO, the problem is the inability of the majority to accept the human condition, not the human condition itself.

And somehow you're able to separate that from the very condition and problem at hand ?

haha, yes, ignorance begets ignorance. Long term conditioning won, we lost. There's only one solution to the problem of the human condition & since no one else seems to want to eliminate our species....

I still stand that wanton & unwarranted wage disparity is the main reason society is falling apart; whether the innate desire for more (greed) is the root cause or not. More tax money is spent to maintain the prison industrial complex of America than it would take to end world hunger, & that's just tax money, not profits.

originally posted by: nullafides
And somehow you're able to separate that from the very condition and problem at hand ?

Very much so.

The problem at hand only exists because we continue to deny the human condition.

Embrace it.

a reply to: Borisbanger

I think it's unfair to try to claim what is someone else's. I do get the sense that people do want a bigger piece of the rich pie too. Just because someone is more likely to behave in the ways stated - does not give carte blanche to the people who want to take the money. So you're right, that's not justification in a long shot.

I still think it is important to understand the mindset and behavioral responses of people to solve problems. Just as important as it is to know rich people tend to behave this way, that impoverished people will tend to rip out all social support from an individual in their group which moves to the next rung in the economic ladder. They see it as 'self serving' and 'he thinks he is better than us now.' Combating these types of behaviors, and realizing they are the root cause (in the case of the rich - behind disastrous law and policy for instance) is the first step on actually fixing anything.

Our politicians are all rich. If we understand that they are more likely to cheat, steal, lie, and manipulate - because they feel entitled to, we can then approach that mindset to help correct it as a society. Their actions have FAR greater consequences on the population than Jill not associating with Jack anymore because he got a good paying job and moved out of poverty.

A company is not a "moral" or a "value." A company is an economic entity. It succeeds or fails based on how monetarily successful it is.

a reply to: ketsuko

Companies are psychopathic entities-they can get away with murder.

a reply to: Borisbanger

Oh please, they're no more at fault for that than any government. Stop anthropomorphizing. The problem lies with the people, not the entities they comprise.