The rich really -are- as bad as you think.

It's not class-envy. I hate the term "check your privilege" and find it completely unfounded in the terms of race (as I will discuss it's wealth). Of COURSE not -all- rich people would fall into this category either, but studies have shown something another poster mentioned in a thread here. Rich people are kinda jerks.

originally posted by: theMediator
Some people manage to get ahead in life, from poor to wealthy...
but even with the best ideas in the world it requires luck and knowing the right persons.

The other way, is having the right values to become rich.

-Opportunism with lack of empathy
-Overwhelming pride
-Manipulator
-Liar
-Selfishness
-Devious
-Deceitful

I really don't have those values. Oh well, at least I'm in peace with myself.

- - - - - - - - - -

Now I am not one that will tout and scream for income in equality, or cry "CLASS WARFARE" when people consider changing economic distribution. Something has to be done, but I'm not exactly the best person to talk to about that. I'm not an economist. I am however well-versed in the fields of human services, social services, and psychology (yay student loans!). It's the -mindset- that fascinates me. Rich people tend to have a completely different mindset than "us". This is evident by the ridiculous way the wealthy see poverty, but also how the poor see the rich. Such as this hilarious info-graphic describing the 'middle class' made by rich people.



Now that you're done laughing, it's startling to see why these folk believe we're so much better off than we are. There's some interesting correlations between happiness and sheer jerk quotient in people due to respective incomes. This may have been touched on in the past, but it's still very interesting. Even in simulated situations people who are advantaged are just simply mean.

Rich people (I'm talking about upper class - the people they said were middle-class in the info-graphic) are more likely to cheat, steal, lie, break laws, steal candy meant for children, and manipulate others. Just like theMediator said. They are more likely to even eat the last pretzels meant for a group of people not even caring that everyone gets some.

Source
Source
Source
Source
Source
Source
(and for those who hate reading case studies...)



Now this is where that whole "check your privilege" nonsense comes from - but as the studies state, it's not racial. It's not even political, sexually oriented, gender oriented, or age-specific. It's all about the Benjamins. What this study doesn't cover is why this mentality happens. The man who ran the monopoly study suggests could be that greed, self-presentation, and other traits associated with these rich people are results of being rich. Further that they are more likely to turn a blind eye to the circumstances that enabled their wealth (some of which may be chance of birth). Especially if they did not -earn- it. So please note, those who have worked tooth and nail do not always fit this study. Now I tend to think the opposite: that it is these traits that got them rich. This is because of other studies that discusses the mentality associated with each circle of the socioeconomic strata. Impoverished individuals need to depend on one another. Their world view is very different than what you and I, who have access to the interwebs, a bed, and food in our belly, would view the world.

A different study breaks down the mentality of people in separate socioeconomic strata and how they view ownership:

Impoverished: We own each other.
Poor: We own our things.
Middle-class: We own our time.
Upper-class: We own our legacy.
Elite: We own everything/everybody.

If you have a mentality that you own everything, of course you feel entitled to everything. You cannot fathom people not seeing that you deserve everything. Just as if you own your time, then you feel entitled to spend it however you see fit. You would resent people who waste your time (cable guy showing up between noon and 5pm), and fail to understand why people can't plan for their future or manage their time/resources.

The impoverished view (IMHO) is the most interesting, because of the support needed by others, with the view of owning them and their time (they own you too) the sense of generosity and community is much higher. If the entire group does better, you do better. You would be weary of outsiders who jeopardize this, and out-rightly resent anyone who left the family/group unit and bettered themselves. They've left you and your group in a bind because they're selfish.

This links to Ruby Payne who has done a lot of work in this theory. These links on her page will show a lot of the collaborative studies into the mindset of different classes if you're interested.

Happiness seems to be related with simplicity of life. Here's a whole book on that. Once the basic needs are met (we can use Maslow's hierarchy of needs as an example) we are more free to be happy and focus on the things that make us happy.



However; the caveat is that the rich tend not to ascend any further in the pyramid. Content in where they are, their legacy, their money, they never strive for more. The model isn't perfect because it doesn't explain why soldiers, fire-fighters, emts, police, and civilians give up safety in exchange for the happiness of helping others - but it might illustrate why people who are rich are such jerks.

Many people confuse self-actualization with fame or fortune, but often this is not the case. While wealthy or celebrated people might reach self-actualization, many people who have reached the highest level of happiness are unknown beyond their circle of family and friends.

As for the simple life, if you can learn to take things in stride, if you can show gratitude, if you are invested in ensuring the health of your relationships, if you can create (in any form), if you can be healthy, and if you can avoid substance abuse - you'll generally be happy. Those things are difficult to come by if you're in the entitled mindset. Why should bad things happen to you? Why should you be grateful when you're owed everything? Why should you care about relationships, they should want to be around you. You can pay for surgery for health. You can do the drugs you want. You're entitled! Don't they know you're rich?!

I wish I could fall into line and simply agree. But, I think this is far too much of an "us vs them" scenario.

a reply to: KaDeCo

Just wondering if these are being reported as middle class?

Single parent $260,000

Single person $230,000

Married couple $640,000

Retired couple $180,000

If this is middle class, sign me up!

Peace

a reply to: nullafides

Yeah, I can definitely see where that is! Especially due to the title and the 'jerk' name-calling.

The point is, when you can understand the mentality of how people view the world, their generalized behavior makes much more sense. I'd be an outright jerk if I felt I owned everything and everyone as well. I think most people would be. I would argue that if a mind is trapped in the view of "it is my right to do whatever I want" there's nothing stopping me from doing whatever I please, and not caring about who or what it hurts.

This is why I feel huge companies don't care about their employees, who they hurt, who they spy on. Why they lobby for laws that will eventually ruin the economy, planet, or their own progeny. It's self-destructive and sad in a way - but understanding where these thought processes come from is an important step in fixing larger problems!

So because this study and these stats say that rich people are supposed to be mean, we should be mean right back and take their stuff?

Just checking because I don't see how that makes it right.

a reply to: KaDeCo

Damn! Those are middle income wages? Why do all the people in that infographic look so damn unhappy? That single mom looks like she the kids have killed all the joy out of her life with that expression. Talk about a ridiculous picture.

Here's something fun I read today from Cracked.
5 Insane Things You Believe About Money (Thanks to Movies)

a reply to: jude11

Yes. That was the Wall Street Journal's take on how taxes will impact the 'middle class'.

See here: Yeah it's the Huffington Post -.-

originally posted by: nullafides


I wish I could fall into line and simply agree. But, I think this is far too much of an "us vs them" scenario.

You do realize that wage disparity is the single most destructive factor in global society?

a reply to: ketsuko

I don't think we should be mean right back at all. As I stated, I don't agree with class-warfare or the arguments of income inequality. This is more the look at the mentality behind the behavior. I am not an economist by any means, so I really don't know the solution to the problem. However, I think there's a big problem.

Two wrongs don't make it right.

I more hope that this serves as a way people can understand why the guy in the $250,000 car cut them off. He's a product of his wealth!

a reply to: Eunuchorn

Really? I thought it was that human beings end up being jerks to each other at all levels of society, top to bottom.

As a species, we have jack all for values and that ends up being more destructive for society than who has what.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Of course there is.

These studies speak in generalities as stated. In the third sentence!

originally posted by: KaDeCo
a reply to: nullafides

Yeah, I can definitely see where that is! Especially due to the title and the 'jerk' name-calling.

The point is, when you can understand the mentality of how people view the world, their generalized behavior makes much more sense. I'd be an outright jerk if I felt I owned everything and everyone as well. I think most people would be. I would argue that if a mind is trapped in the view of "it is my right to do whatever I want" there's nothing stopping me from doing whatever I please, and not caring about who or what it hurts.

This is why I feel huge companies don't care about their employees, who they hurt, who they spy on. Why they lobby for laws that will eventually ruin the economy, planet, or their own progeny. It's self-destructive and sad in a way - but understanding where these thought processes come from is an important step in fixing larger problems!

The single wealthiest individual I've ever known, was also the kindest person I've ever known. Just one out of many, but still.

Now, with regards to the propensity for a desire to own everything, to be in charge. This is an aspect of humanity that has always been in place. From the earliest humans, someone wanted to own...

And as for companies...well, honestly, what do you expect? Do you expect an organization to start out with nothing yet have the intention of making "it" ? Is there a sudden marker on a line that says "put the airbrakes on" ?

Also, I think this has far more to do with overall group think than anything else. The monster is in the mass gel of humanity form pressed into one goal...not the mere corporate entity in and of itself.


I'll be honest and say this now. I am not a proponent of the human race and it's emotional capacity for success as a species. Take us on an individual basis...wonderful.

Take us as a group? Pretty disgusting.

I've done voluntary work in the neighborhood for years and will ask for donations on occasion. I can just tell you my personal observation. The poor were always a lot more willing to give, and give a lot more. I always found that curious.

originally posted by: KaDeCo
a reply to: ketsuko

I don't think we should be mean right back at all. As I stated, I don't agree with class-warfare or the arguments of income inequality. This is more the look at the mentality behind the behavior. I am not an economist by any means, so I really don't know the solution to the problem. However, I think there's a big problem.

Two wrongs don't make it right.

I more hope that this serves as a way people can understand why the guy in the $250,000 car cut them off. He's a product of his wealth!

And yet you end up your comment with a class warfare statement!

The guy in the $250,000 car cut me off because he's a jerk just like the guy in the $1,000 clunker who cut me off. Although it is also possible they made an honest mistake too. I've cut people off simply because I failed to see them. Am I a jerk?

Being a jerk is not something money buys you.

a reply to: ketsuko

Yes, humans are pretty vile. But there are a lot of research going into why these behaviors happen. If you read Ruby Payne's studies there's an account for the types of behavior across all strata, but as it stands the rich are still more likely to lie, cheat, steal, manipulate, and break laws.

a reply to: Eunuchorn

You do realize that wage disparity is the single most destructive factor in global society?

Yes I agree it feks up societal cohesion

a reply to: Eunuchorn

And you do realize that water IS the ultimate solvent.

Don't you?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Eunuchorn

Really? I thought it was that human beings end up being jerks to each other at all levels of society, top to bottom.

As a species, we have jack all for values and that ends up being more destructive for society than who has what.

Human nature & lack of values is what leads to excessive wage disparity. I could have said humans are the most destructive force in global society but that would be redundant.

originally posted by: KaDeCo
a reply to: ketsuko

Yes, humans are pretty vile. But there are a lot of research going into why these behaviors happen. If you read Ruby Payne's studies there's an account for the types of behavior across all strata, but as it stands the rich are still more likely to lie, cheat, steal, manipulate, and break laws.

You do also realize that most of those studies are carried out in departments that have distinct ideological biases on the parts of their researchers?