Next Episode: Fluoride- post your own research & observations

originally posted by: theNLBS

originally posted by: real_one
a reply to: theNLBS

It would be awesome if you could discuss some of the claims/findings which were in the Harvard fluoride study in regards to neurological development in children:

www.hsph.harvard.edu...

There's also a follow up study within the page provided so if you could please acknowledge that too it would be great.

Thanks!

YES! this is one of the first studies I reviewed. First the study was a review of data collected in 27 studies, mostly from China.

The results support the possibility of an adverse effect of high fluoride exposure on children’s neurodevelopment. Future research should include detailed individual-level information on prenatal exposure, neurobehavioral performance, and covariates for adjustment.

There was only a .45 difference in IQ and that may even be an error of data calculation. It should also be noted that China has higher levels of naturally occuring fluoride in the water. Also, because of a lack of pollution control, there's a lot more fluorine pollutants. China and India are the best places for these kinds of studies.

I won't say Fluoride is 100% safe. It isn't. Too much is very dangerous.

Here's another study that produced similar results, again in China. Association of lifetime exposure to fluoride and cognitive functions in Chinese children: A pilot study.

Would also be interesting to note that the study was done on raw water. Not treated water. Fluoride was neither added nor taken away to allowable concentrations. It was naturally occurring at high doses in this study...

a reply to: theNLBS
Another thing that graphic doesn't contain is, what was the % of people that had good dental hygiene and saw a dentist regularly through the whole time period listed.

a reply to: superman2012

No, you posted a lot of claims supposedly made by people that oppose the usage of fluoride and disputed some of them but I didn't see you post any evidence that fluoride is not harmless at the levels present in tap water. If you did I missed them.

Water has been fluoridated for quite some time in the US. Are all the baby boomers, and later generations bowing down to the government? Are you?

I am not(ingesting fluoride), but it is safe to say that apathy runs rampant.

Here's something that you might find interesting. Some of the stuff in the video has been covered here. Some wasn't.

originally posted by: superman2012
Good luck. I made a thread that showed that there were no proven horrible consequences of drinking properly dosed fluoridated water.

Was it this one from 14 months back?
Water Fluoride Will Not Kill You - Dec 2013
I'm going to post a link to it for people to see and check out.

I dont trust fluoride. I think its effects are long term and insidious.

But hey, I drink tap water thats heavily chlorinated, and Im assuming fluoridated, so..

I'll have to watch the next episode so I can feel a bit more smug and trusting in my daily consumption.

originally posted by: theNLBS

originally posted by: LittleByLittle

originally posted by: real_one
a reply to: theNLBS

Water, H20, is also an industrial waste product...

Is pure H20 (water) considered toxic to humans and the environment?

In the wrong concentration yes. Everything is about how much is unhealthy for you. Some chemicals are very unhealthy at lower levels than others. Drinking too much water to quickly will kill you since your body cannot handle it.

Here is an interesting graphic i stumbled upon.

On the natural side is H2O. Yet pure H2O is not natural. There are many things bound loosely to a water molecule. That is a deception.

originally posted by: theNLBS
It was called the Fluoricheck Water Analysis Kit. It's apparently the cheapest way to check your level BUT I can't find any sources that sell the kit anymore. :-(

Your next option is to bottle some up and send it to a lab.

That exact product by 3M doesn't seem to be available but there are many other home kits that are:

www.discovertesting.com... 25 bucks for the fluoride test

www.amazon.com... 519493512&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_40yar6sjts_b Multiple fluo- ride test options

This was my search: "home kits for well water testing including fluoride levels" which obviously can be used on any water source

As far as this thread, I'm going with the moderation advice. I remember hearing years ago about children with grey teeth who had been exposed to excessive fluoridation. Many pediatricians used to (don't know if they still do) prescribe fluoride drops for babies.

Here is a CDC bit

The proper amount of fluoride helps prevent and control tooth decay in children and adults. Fluoride works both while the teeth are developing and every day after the teeth have emerged through the gums. Fluoride consumed during tooth development can also result in a range of visible changes to the enamel surface of the tooth. These changes have been broadly termed dental fluorosis, or dental fluorosis.


What is dental fluorosis?

Dental fluorosis is a change in the appearance of the tooth's enamel. These changes can vary from barely noticeable white spots in mild forms to staining and pitting in the more severe forms. Dental fluorosis only occurs when younger children consume too much fluoride, from any source, over long periods when teeth are developing under the gums.

Who develops dental fluorosis?

Only children aged 8 years and younger can develop dental fluorosis because this is when permanent teeth are developing under the gums.
•Once the teeth erupt through the gums and are in the mouth, they can no longer develop fluorosis.
•The teeth of children older than 8 years, adolescents, and adults cannot develop dental fluorosis.


What does dental fluorosis look like?
•Very mild and mild forms of dental fluorosis—teeth have scattered white flecks, occasional white spots, frosty edges, or fine, lacy chalk-like lines. These changes are barely noticeable and difficult to see except by a dental health care professional.
•Moderate and severe forms of dental fluorosis—teeth have larger white spots and, in the rare, severe form, rough, pitted surfaces.

What causes dental fluorosis?

Dental fluorosis is caused by taking in too much fluoride over a long period when the teeth are forming under the gums. Only children aged 8 years and younger are at risk because this is when permanent teeth are developing under the gums. The severity of the condition depends on the dose (how much), duration (how long), and timing (when consumed) of fluoride intake.

Increases in the occurrence of mostly mild dental fluorosis were recognized as more sources of fluoride became available to prevent tooth decay. These sources include drinking water with fluoride, fluoride toothpaste—especially if swallowed by young children—and dietary prescription supplements in tablets or drops (particularly if prescribed to children already drinking fluoridated water).

www.cdc.gov...

I think what we need to focus on is restoring the water to its natural state.

Anything less than that is a conspiracy.

originally posted by: RustyHook
I am not(ingesting fluoride), but it is safe to say that apathy runs rampant.

You don't eat?

Fluoride is found is the vast majority of food...including fresh organic.

Here is some interesting info from our Irish friends:

www.enviro.ie... ent%20Services.pdf

Ireland has mandatory fluoridation. Given the disturbing findings regarding the neurotoxicity of fluoride, it is not beyond consideration that Ireland, regarded by many as the most fluoridated country in the world (over 78% of the population consume fluoride in drinking water), may therefore show an association with increased neurological disorders. It is accepted that Ireland has one of the highest incidences of neurological disorders in the world, including epilepsy, as well as cardiovascular disease and dental fluorosis. In addition, alarmingly, it is estimated that 300,000 people in Ireland over the age of 50 have osteoporosis and sadly that over 500 patients die each year in Ireland from complications resulting from osteoporotic hip fractures. In effect the State is conducting unmonitored clinical trials of a known toxin on an entire population over an extended period of time without their knowledge or consent.

originally posted by: peck420

originally posted by: real_one
Is pure H20 (water) considered toxic to humans and the environment?

Yes! Pure H2O has an LD50 (lethal dose 50%) of 90 mL/kg (Rat - Route: oral).
2nd.

I said toxic, not lethal.

BIG difference...

LOL funny thing I was expecting a reply like yours so I'm not surprised.

originally posted by: peck420

originally posted by: RustyHook
I am not(ingesting fluoride), but it is safe to say that apathy runs rampant.

You don't eat?

Fluoride is found is the vast majority of food...including fresh organic.

That is true but it was kinda obvious that I was talking about tap water.

originally posted by: real_one
I said toxic, not lethal.

The only difference between toxic and lethal is the dosage.

BIG difference...

Not really. Consume anything toxic (which is absolutely everything) at a large enough dosage and it is lethal. And, by everything, I do mean absolutely everything.

LOL funny thing I was expecting a reply like yours so I'm not surprised.

And I was expecting a response like yours. Completely uneducated in regards to the environment we live in.

a reply to: StoutBroux
Link doesn't work and "may therefore" is not nearly strong enough to show a correlation. Science would work, fears and fantasies don't.

originally posted by: real_one

originally posted by: peck420

originally posted by: real_one
Is pure H20 (water) considered toxic to humans and the environment?

Yes! Pure H2O has an LD50 (lethal dose 50%) of 90 mL/kg (Rat - Route: oral).
2nd.

I said toxic, not lethal.

BIG difference...

LOL funny thing I was expecting a reply like yours so I'm not surprised.

Well water "intoxication", an abnormal state that is essentially a poisoning, is a thing. His full quote should have read.

Water, just like any other substance, can be considered a poison when over-consumed in a specific period of time. Water intoxication mostly occurs when water is being consumed in a high quantity without giving the body the proper nutrients it needs to be healthy, but even healthy people can get water intoxication.

Excess of body water may also be a result of a medical condition or improper treatment; see "hyponatremia" for some examples. Water is considered the least toxic chemical compound, with an LD50 of 90 ml/kg or more in rats.

Material Safety Data Sheet Water MSDS

originally posted by: onequestion
I think what we need to focus on is restoring the water to its natural state.

Anything less than that is a conspiracy.

How natural are you talking? Cryptosporidium? Giardia? Heavy metals naturally occurring? Ammonia? H2S? Barium? Etc.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: superman2012
Good luck. I made a thread that showed that there were no proven horrible consequences of drinking properly dosed fluoridated water.

Was it this one from 14 months back?
Water Fluoride Will Not Kill You - Dec 2013
I'm going to post a link to it for people to see and check out.

That's the one. Thanks! I have avoided it just because people do not want to even consider there is another less insidious side then an internet meme...

originally posted by: RustyHook
a reply to: superman2012

No, you posted a lot of claims supposedly made by people that oppose the usage of fluoride and disputed some of them but I didn't see you post any evidence that fluoride is not harmless at the levels present in tap water. If you did I missed them.

Water has been fluoridated for quite some time in the US. Are all the baby boomers, and later generations bowing down to the government? Are you?

I am not(ingesting fluoride), but it is safe to say that apathy runs rampant.

If you brush your teeth, you are ingesting fluoride. If you drink bottled drinks, you are ingesting fluoride. If you eat food, you are ingesting fluoride.

Edit:
ps- there is NO WAY, you read the whole thread from the time I told you about it, until now. There is LOTS of information from both sides of the argument on that thread.

originally posted by: RustyHook
a reply to: superman2012

No, you posted a lot of claims supposedly made by people that oppose the usage of fluoride and disputed some of them but I didn't see you post any evidence that fluoride is not harmless at the levels present in tap water. If you did I missed them.

Water has been fluoridated for quite some time in the US. Are all the baby boomers, and later generations bowing down to the government? Are you?

I am not(ingesting fluoride), but it is safe to say that apathy runs rampant.

Also, my refuting their claims, and showing they were untruths or outright lies, is evidence. If they claim something and I show it to be false, isn't that the same? If not, prove to me that wifi will not cause osteoporosis.