What is Freemasonry? One Mason to another...

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a reply to: Saurus
I'm writing something similar to this subject for my Grand Oration. I don't know why it is hard for some to explain, but I would steer towards the ritual and the initiatic experience.

I will reflect on this and respond in due time.

a reply to: Saurus

By keeping our rituals secret, we minimize such public pressure, and preserve inviolate our ancient arts and hidden mysteries.

Who is we, and what makes it "ours"?

Think about that. It's a cuckold in the mind that lives longer than mortal men for the longevity of a idea.

a reply to: PizzaAnyday505
As a Mason, I must respectfully disagree with your statement.

Freemasonry, in all of my experience, has only strengthened my faith and has enlightened me.

a reply to: Tangerine
I was not recruited, but I joined as I found them curious, from my own research, and also was looking for camaraderie when moving into a new town.

I didn't have much for expectations, but I was open. I was fortunate to have a Lodge with great ritualists. I was impressed from the first degree and desired more. Freemasonry is one thing in my life I have never regretted doing.

I was religious, but I did not attend services.

a reply to: Forensick
That is the furthest thing from what Freemasonry is.

a reply to: Tangerine
The faith of each member is up to them, not the fraternity.

a reply to: Saurus
I've looked at Sufism and it's ties to Rosicrucianism and Freemasonry, but I'm curious as to what preceded Sufism. I've started looking at Ancient Mysteries and early Christianity as well.

a reply to: DeathSlayer
There is no Lucifer worship nor is there any requirement for a political connection in the 33rd.

a reply to: Wifibrains
What's wrong with secrecy?

a reply to: Wifibrains

I know that. but why the secrecy?

I obviously can not speak for Masons regarding secrecy
But I will give you as honest an answer as I am able

Replace the word secrecy with discretion or privacy
We did have many guests and spoke to them freely if they asked questions and were genuinely interested.

Outsiders? This is what I'm talking about. why the need for outsiders? so insiders can feel "special" and a part of something sacred that others are not.

Yes I know that sounds bad ... Replace outsiders with the word public
No we did not consider ourselves special ... that would have gone against our thinking ... We were like minded and far from holier that thou ... I personally felt fortunate

Why would someone want to disrupt your work?

Good question ... Disruptive people exist in all walks of life ... and we came across many ... including the media and government agencies

We were private in our affairs but public in our philosophy to those who approached us
Our work was three fold ... 1. Learning 2. Sharing what we learned 3. Making a livelihood

What is the collective goal of "your/their work?

We had 7 set aims ...

1. To help Mankind to rid himself of Cancer and all other diseases, in an affective, natural, cost free way, without resorting to the use of drugs or surgery

2. To help those sick and troubled in mind, as well as those seeking a deep understanding of Thought, to achieve lasting peace of mind, by correct use of their own thoughts

3. To encourage Man to understand and respect his fellow Man by practising positive non encroachment and true caring, based on an understanding of his Purpose in life

4. To encourage Man to understand and respect all animal life, and to show him the benefits derived from such a way

5. To encourage the full use of the land for food growth, and the nourishing of the Earth in a natural way

6. To achieve a high degree of self-sufficient skills, and so foster independence of spirit and less reliance on advanced technology and conventional power sources

7. To present these ways to Man by setting up Centres which teach and practise a practical way of caring for the Mind, Body and the environment in which Man lives.

a reply to: KSigMason

I know that most of the knowledge is not a secret per se, it is the understanding, and not the superficial that is important, one thing leads to another and I am the key to all the secrets. Belief crates what is real and a organisation like masonary sets that in stone. Masonry lives on through its symbols and buildings, through generations, a idea similar to the church, a dead entity given the breath of life by belief the organisation and its practices have meaning and is real, it's a idea that is cemented and worshiped.

If there is such a word as "free" that is true, any other word used as a label is a trap.

I don't see masons building freedom do you?

a reply to: artistpoet

Thanks for the reply.

Sounds like good work, shame it must be done in secret really, many more would probably be willing to help of it was not.

originally posted by: Abednego

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
a reply to: Saurus

My grandfather was one and I have been given a few chances to join but politely refused. Not sure which degree you are at. It is relevantly easy to reach 32 degree. Beyond that to 33rd degree requires a political connection from what I see.It is at this level you find out what god you are worshipping...... which is Lucifer. My main reason for not wanting to join the ranks of the mason.

How do you know that at 33rd degree they worship Satan?
I know a few 33rd degree masons, and they are far from been politicians.

There are numerous Masons who have revealed the god they worship is Lucifer. This is well known. It is no longer secret. This was one the secrets of Mason worship. For some reason once you reach 33rd degree you qualify to actually meet Lucifer. Much knowledge and wisdom is shared to the 33rd degree brother. Enlightenment starts with the 33rd degree and many brothers fail to reach this level.

I do not mean that every 33rd degree is a politican but in order to reach the 33rd degree it takes more than most that serve.

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
For some reason once you reach 33rd degree you qualify to actually meet Lucifer.

Does he show up with Santa and the Tooth Fairy?

Do you honestly beleive this crap?

originally posted by: Saurus

originally posted by: artistpoet

Would such a person be acceptable to Masonry ... not that I am petitioning to join

The test is a direct yes or no question - you must answer yes or no:

"Do you believe in a Supreme Being?"

If yes, you are eligible to join. If no, not. If in-between, you must select either yes or no.

Lucifer is a supreme being.

originally posted by: DeathSlayer
Lucifer is a supreme being.

How? When the historical Satan was created by God?

originally posted by: DeathSlayer

originally posted by: Saurus

originally posted by: artistpoet

Would such a person be acceptable to Masonry ... not that I am petitioning to join

The test is a direct yes or no question - you must answer yes or no:

"Do you believe in a Supreme Being?"

If yes, you are eligible to join. If no, not. If in-between, you must select either yes or no.

Lucifer is a supreme being.

Lucifer was a mistake from an underachiever. But I'll ask my friends who are 33rds what Lucifer looks like. Perhaps you can share that bit of information.

Good question, after becoming a Mason I was somewhat disappointed. I guess my expectations were to high after seeing to many shows and movies. I thought maybe there would be some secrets shared but it really comes down being in a group of great men who I consider brothers. I truly believe that the Mason have secrets but you have to be way up with the right people. Being a Mason makes you stronger being in the organization through support and helping others. Ithink its a great experience but nothing strange or secrets just being the best man possible.

originally posted by: phinubian
a reply to: Tangerine
You have to look at the foundation in order to see how the house was built, the core belief is sufism, and yes this is written in books and yes you will discover truth by reading and looking at history.

The greatest writers of modern freemasonry and some not so great have given very useful insight, have you ever bothered to research or read them ? many of the texts that I have access to were written long before it was imagined they could fall into the hands of the general public.

I don't assume anything, I read and I am very educated on the subject of ancient freemasonry, how modern freemasonry evolved, and also am aware of the many errors that have been propagated about the ancient craft of freemasonry.

But more importantly I am aware of how the craft is truly utilized today and who benefits from it and most importantly what the ultimate goals are.

No, I haven't researched it. That's why I'm asking questions. I asked if the works you cited are explicitly used in freemasonry. Are they quoted or referred to? I have a friend who practices Sufism and is not a Muslim so I am aware of that.

originally posted by: Saurus

originally posted by: Tangerine

What is the point of creating an unshakeable value system without first exploring the mysteries? How can you truly explore "those secrets" without them affecting and changing you, if only incrementally?

Aah, come on... Many Christians are terrified of exploring other religions. So they don't. For fear that it might change them.
It's because they don't have an unshakable value system. It's pretty darn shakable and they know it, so they avoid asking too many questions.

I agree except about the "and they know it" part. Most aren't very self-aware. However, it did seem that you were promoting the unshakeable value system as a positive aspect of masonry.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

....
Freemasonry is several things. Each lodge is different depending on the interests of it's members. There is brotherhood and
A prerequisite of initiation is that you believe in some form of deity. No matter what religion you follow. However, nearly all of the masons i have met are christian. It is not a christian organisation. I do not believe in a deity and so i am mostly annoyed at the members who go on about such things. I realized long ago that i do not need to pretend to have a gods eyes on me at all times to be a good person. But i still think back to the lessons i learned from those early days.

a reply to: Saurus

Have you made it clear to your lodge brothers that you don't believe in any kind of deity and how do they respond?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Tangerine

I have no problem with men or women spending time with people of their own gender. The point I was making was that if one is a Mason to search for "the truth" or some such, by default you're really just getting the Old White Boy's "truth". It seems to me that if one wants to learn and experience one looks outside one's comfort and experience zone. Do you agree?

No, because my lodge is not just 'old white boys'. We also do many activities revolving around the esoteric so I feel we are getting many new experiences.

Based on what I've been told, your lodge is the exception in that regard. Do you think that's the case? My friend who is a Master Mason is no longer active primarily because his lodge did not move in that direction--that and he was carrying far more than his share of the work of keeping the lodge going. He did, however, say that he found value in freemasonry.

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
a reply to: Saurus

I've read a bit of the constitutions and most of it is not what you'd expect and it is not as bad what the conspiracy theorists would have you believe.

From my understanding it's a gathering of like-minded men who contribute to society in their own discreet way while maintaining their rituals-and I don't mean the bad kind of rituals.

However the constitutions do mention 'stupid atheists' so I'm guessing only a man of god could become a member.


What are the "bad kind of rituals"? Interesting about the constitution. I was unaware of that. Can others verify that?

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Tangerine
I have a friend who is a Master Mason and he's a pagan. He says there's another pagan in his lodge but they both feel that they would be unwelcome if the others knew. How do the other Masons in your lodge deal with the Hindu and pagan(s)?

The belief isn't up to the lodge to judge. It's the individual mason who decides his relationship with the creator.
But......masons are men. Men are susceptible to social bias and ignorance. So while the precept of freemasonry go directly against racism, there can be racist masons. And while a pagan mason is no less a mason than a Baptist preacher, those who haven't tried to understand other beliefs, out of ignorance, might denounce something they don't understand. (human nature)

That suggests that there's no effort to teach members about non-Abrahamic religions.