Ukraine crisis: Leaders agree peace roadmap

a reply to: paraphi

Look I am not purposely doing this but that article is May 2014, you got anything more relevant to nowadays because all I can see is that the leaderships in the donbass want autonomy. Granted it was said a year ago but nowadays they want autonomy.

a reply to: sosobad

I think the separatists are fighting for more autonomy within Ukraine but don't let that fact get in the way of your fantasies.

I am pretty sure that was discussed long before now...but all the Pro Russian crew here say they want to become part of Russia, even when shown they don't want to break up Ukraine.

In fact this was from May of 2014...

www.washingtonpost.com...

So it seems they still feel the same way about the future with Ukraine.

a reply to: sosobad

If they are getting their legitimacy over the (not-recognised- by-anyone) referendum, then their mandate is independence. I have read that they are back-peddling since Russia went cold on the idea, but there you go. Let's turn this around shall we?

You come up with the evidence that the two self-proclaimed republics in the Donbass region have a policy shift from independence as stated in the May 2014 referenda, to autonomy (whatever that is). You clearly have a more up-to-date, and genuine source.

Regards

a reply to: sosobad

Look I am not purposely doing this but that article is May 2014, you got anything more relevant to nowadays because all I can see is that the leaderships in the donbass want autonomy.

They want autonomy but still want to be part of Ukraine, but it really doesn't matter as Russia can't afford them and think they should stay part of Ukraine.

So they would have to stay part of Ukraine no matter what.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: sosobad

Look I am not purposely doing this but that article is May 2014, you got anything more relevant to nowadays because all I can see is that the leaderships in the donbass want autonomy.

They want autonomy but still want to be part of Ukraine, but it really doesn't matter as Russia can't afford them and think they should stay part of Ukraine.

So they would have to stay part of Ukraine no matter what.

That's my point how does that feed into your original statement saying what will they do when Russia doesn't want them. They didn't want to be part of Russia but you intimated they did, thanks for helping me out

a reply to: paraphi

I have read that they are back-peddling since Russia went cold on the idea,

It must suck thinking you have the help of the people who started the war only to be told sorry we can't help you.

Being autonomous is like a state in the US...they are their own rulers yet they still are under the rule of the federal government, and in their case it would be Ukraine.

And they have been asking for it since the first ceasefire was agreed upon.

a reply to: sosobad

That's my point how does that feed into your original statement saying what will they do when Russia doesn't want them. They didn't want to be part of Russia but you intimated they did, thanks for helping me out

And yet they did at least by the Pro Russian crowd here...in fact you do remember when it was the thing to refer to the east as Novorossiya or New Russia.

So it seems many thought they were wanting to join Russia...yourself included.

And the separatists called the area by the same name, but you must have just forgot that part of things.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

So it seems many thought they were wanting to join Russia...yourself included.

Yeah I'm gonna need proof of that. Otherwise would would be telling porkie pies again?

a reply to: sosobad

Yeah I'm gonna need proof of that. Otherwise would would be telling porkie pies again?

So you have never called it Novorossiya?

And you never said they want to join Russia?

Prove you haven't?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

They want autonomy but still want to be part of Ukraine, but it really doesn't matter as Russia can't afford them and think they should stay part of Ukraine.

Hang on a sec, I thought Putin was trying to rebuild the USSR? Now you're saying he doesn't want eastern Ukraine? So he's not invading then?

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: sosobad

Yeah I'm gonna need proof of that. Otherwise would would be telling porkie pies again?

So you have never called it Novorossiya?

And you never said they want to join Russia?

Prove you haven't?

Hold on a second you accused me of it in the first place. You want me to validate your assumption? Now either show me or you'll be reported.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

The rebels are trying to change the agreement - again.

Ukraine cease-fire largely holding, Debaltseve still tense

Attention will be focused in the coming days on Debaltseve, where Ukrainian forces have been fending off severe onslaughts from the rebels for weeks. The town is a railway link between the main separatist-held cities of Donetsk and Luhansk.

The diminution in hostilities was agreed after a marathon session of diplomacy that brought together Poroshenko, Russian President Vladimir Putin, German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French leader Francois Hollande for talks in the capital of Belarus, Minsk.

In a conference call Sunday, the leaders agreed the cease-fire should extend to Debaltseve, according to a statement from Poroshenko's office.

That flies in the face of the position taken by rebels, who argue they should be granted immediate control over the town as it is entirely surrounded by their forces. Separatist officials have said any force adopted against Ukrainian troops in Debaltseve would accordingly not violate the Minsk agreement.

Apparently its ok for the rebels to continue their attack on the town they have failed to take prior to the cease fire.

a reply to: sosobad

Hold on a second you accused me of it in the first place. You want me to validate your assumption? Now either show me or you'll be reported.

Well report away.

SO it's okay for the accusations to fly at me, but when the shoe is on the other foot it is reported...imagine that.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: sosobad

Hold on a second you accused me of it in the first place. You want me to validate your assumption? Now either show me or you'll be reported.

Well report away.

So you are openly admitting to telling untruths? I hope that everyone that reads it remembers

Didn't bother reporting as you just showed everyone what you do.

a reply to: sosobad

So you are openly admitting to telling untruths? I hope that everyone that reads it remembers

Really where did I do that?

You see making an accusation is far from telling lies, that is if you can prove the accusation wrong something you haven't done.

Didn't bother reporting as you just showed everyone what you do.

Doesn't matter if you did or not you still haven't proven the accusations to be wrong or a lie.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: sosobad

So you are openly admitting to telling untruths? I hope that everyone that reads it remembers

Really where did I do that?

You see making an accusation is far from telling lies, that is if you can prove the accusation wrong something you haven't done.

Didn't bother reporting as you just showed everyone what you do.

Doesn't matter if you did or not you still haven't proven the accusations to be wrong or a lie.

Lol you failed and showed yourself up. You toss out false accusations without proof then tell the person to prove they are wrong. Nasty cheap underhanded tactics. Now everyone else knows

Mod Note:

Let's keep this civil and on the topic, folks.



Do not reply to this post.

a reply to: Flatcoat

Russia did invade Ukraine and currently occupies Crimea.
Putin wants Ukraine to stay in what it considers its "sphere of influence" (which is BS). How that happens is the question. Russia does not have to occupy the east of Ukraine in order to control it and we see that today with Russian actions there. Russia is just as happy, as was the USSR, to have nations on its borders that take orders from Moscow and rubber stamp everything they do.

Why do you think Russia keeps pushing for federalization in Ukraine? It means they can control the east of Ukraine via political control.

just like Russia has done in Moldova where they have troops in a break away province. As they did in Georgia.... as they are doing in Ukraine.

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: sosobad

So you are openly admitting to telling untruths? I hope that everyone that reads it remembers

Really where did I do that?

You see making an accusation is far from telling lies, that is if you can prove the accusation wrong something you haven't done.

Didn't bother reporting as you just showed everyone what you do.

Doesn't matter if you did or not you still haven't proven the accusations to be wrong or a lie.

Lol you failed and showed yourself up. You toss out false accusations without proof then tell the person to prove they are wrong. Nasty cheap underhanded tactics. Now everyone else knows

The thread you said that stuff in has been deleted for numerous TnC violations If i remember correctly. Surfer is correct you did say stuff to the effect he said you did. So while you are playing the victim youre just taking advantage of something the mods did(yes i remember id said i would not reply to you ever again but i coudnt let that stand.)

BAck on topic now. The cease fire wont last. Its just another conflict like with israel and palis. never ending.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: sosobad

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: sosobad

So you are openly admitting to telling untruths? I hope that everyone that reads it remembers

Really where did I do that?

You see making an accusation is far from telling lies, that is if you can prove the accusation wrong something you haven't done.

Didn't bother reporting as you just showed everyone what you do.

Doesn't matter if you did or not you still haven't proven the accusations to be wrong or a lie.

Lol you failed and showed yourself up. You toss out false accusations without proof then tell the person to prove they are wrong. Nasty cheap underhanded tactics. Now everyone else knows

The thread you said that stuff in has been deleted for numerous TnC violations If i remember correctly. Surfer is correct you did say stuff to the effect he said you did. So while you are playing the victim youre just taking advantage of something the mods did(yes i remember id said i would not reply to you ever again but i coudnt let that stand.)

BAck on topic now. The cease fire wont last. Its just another conflict like with israel and palis. never ending.

You went off topic to assert his fallacies, now can you can you back it up? What was the name of the thread oh enlightened one? When was it posted and what was said, you must remember all of this if you are so sure. I don't ever remember you saying you would not ever reply to me again, I can remember you stopped replying when you couldn't back up your claims. But that seems to be the norm around here these days, making fantastical claims without proof then asking others to prove them wrong.

The only reason he started this, as he has on occasions before, is because he doesn't have a coherent argument. As for why you are doing it is because I can only assume you still harbour feelings about being shown up. Now if you are all done making this about me.