Anti vaxxers a simple question.

Have vaccines saved millions of lives or not?.


I think so.

Smallpox annual deaths without vaccination 5 million....vaccines have saved 5 million per year.
Diphtheria annual deaths without vaccination 260,000....vaccines have saved 223,000 per year.
Plus many more in the link below.

www.unicef.org...

www.livescience.com...

www.businessinsider.com...

So If you want these diseases to come back don't get vaccinated.

Also before people chime in with the stuff about Autism.

Autism was coined 70 years ago and the definition of the Autism has changed to include more people so the stats do show the amount of people DIAGNOSED with it of course goes up.

a reply to: boymonkey74

there was a report in the papers i think it was in the express , some doctors were saying that the latest flue vaccine did not work .

a reply to: tom.farnhill

Do you understand how they make it?.
They have to second guess the way the strain will go and they got it a little wrong.
It still works in around 20 30% so it still helps some.
Care to answer my question or not?.

a reply to: tom.farnhill

Flue is a different ballgame all together. It mutates so fast and in so many different strains that each annual vaccine is the best educated guess as to which strain will be the most prevalent.

However, focusing on the flu is really avoiding the question. Take smallpox, for example. It was only due to a globally coordinated vaccination campaign that the disease was wiped from this earth. It really was a monumental achievement for mankind.

a reply to: tom.farnhill
I doubt anyone said it did not work, at the very most they might have said that a different strain was the most prevalent.

Which would not be the same thing as not working.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Correlation does not equal causation

The thing is people are painting all vaccines as bad on ATS (no none really are unless you fell for the Wakefield BS).
This is going to harm society as a whole.

a reply to: ZeussusZ

True, but the mountain of evidence is. Simply stating "correlation does not equal causation" is not an argument.

a reply to: GetHyped

How does it work one way but not the other? Your hypocrisy is showing.

a reply to: SpaDe_

You're right, it's just a coincidence

Measles


Diphtheria


Polio

All I can add is:

My uncle was a bright, very bright, very active child with a great vocabulary at age 3 they say.

Then he got the measles, and became deaf from complications of the measles
before the days of cochlear implants, etc.
before the measles vaccine
He lost his ability to speak understandably,
and while his sisters went to college
he graduated high school deaf school.

My mother made sure my sister and I got all our vaccines and my children and grandchildren have had theirs.

Children do die from the measles, far more die from the measles then die from complications of vaccines percentage wise.

If an antivax parent wants to risk the death or permanent disability of her child because they are afraid of the vaccine, well the risk is far greater from not getting the vaccine then from getting the disease - which is spreading like wildfire in the US.

originally posted by: SpaDe_
a reply to: GetHyped

How does it work one way but not the other? Your hypocrisy is showing.

He said it was the mountain of evidence.

No charts demonstrating causation are needed when after a vaccine is taken you can test a person for the antibodies which give the person immunity to the disease.

I know it is science talk but I am sure you get it.

a reply to: GetHyped

It may very well be. I can show you graphs all day long with similar results. Still proves nothing.

I am not against all vaccinations, but I do not trust Big Pharma, so I will remain skeptical of anything they are peddling that is generating billions in profits for them. If you want to get the jab go for it, but it is and should be everyone's right to choice. You made yours, now let them make theirs.

I am not anti-vaccination by any means, but I have posed the same question multiple times on ATS thus far, which is as follows: Are all vaccines 100% safe? This has nothing to do with their effectiveness by the way. If there is not a 100% guarantee that no dangerous side effects will emerge as a result of the vaccination, then is not every single person receiving a vaccination taking a major risk by getting vaccinated in the first place? This does not go for a vaccine that is 100% safe, if there is such a thing, but there is some evidence to suggest that vaccinations can have horrible consequences in a certain percentage of cases. Perhaps this only occurs in less than 1% of cases, but this still means that there is no guarantee of safety. So by choosing to get vaccinated you might be taking a risk. By not getting vaccinated you are also taking a risk, although the risk in that case would be of contracting the specific condition the vaccine is designed to prevent. So should someone be able to force someone else into taking a risk that they are not comfortable in taking? I mean they are the ones taking the risk are they not?

And of course when I make such points there are always those who must say that vaccines ARE 100% safe, which is utterly ridiculous in my opinion. There have been multiple cases of vaccinations causing horrible side effects that never go away. Anyone remember hearing about the woman who lost all capacity for speech, except when she walks backwards? It has been a long time since I read about that case, but wasn't that related to a vaccination? Then there is the debate about links between vaccinations and specific brain conditions. Even if there is no scientific proof of such a link does not mean such a link is not present. If the side effects only occur in a small number of cases, then of course it would be difficult to study. Plus, it is extremely difficult to isolate the direct cause of something. Some will say "just because the condition started immediately after receiving a vaccination does not mean the vaccination is to blame." That may be true, but it definitely might be.

Again, I think vaccinations are necessary. However, I feel that too many people do not consider the dangers associated with them. And nobody should attack another person because they have weighed the risks and decided against vaccination.

originally posted by: SpaDe_
a reply to: GetHyped

It may very well be. I can show you graphs all day long with similar results. Still proves nothing.

Then you live in cuckoo land.

a reply to: Grimpachi

I get it, and as I said in the reply below your post I am not against all vaccines, but when these companies start pumping out vaccines that are not properly tested and merely for profit, it makes many people including myself skeptical.

If you want the jab by all means get it, but everyone is and should be allowed to make that choice.

originally posted by: GetHyped

originally posted by: SpaDe_
a reply to: GetHyped

It may very well be. I can show you graphs all day long with similar results. Still proves nothing.

Then you live in cuckoo land.

And here you are with me.

originally posted by: JiggyPotamus
I am not anti-vaccination by any means, but I have posed the same question multiple times on ATS thus far, which is as follows: Are all vaccines 100% safe? This has nothing to do with their effectiveness by the way. If there is not a 100% guarantee that no dangerous side effects will emerge as a result of the vaccination, then is not every single person receiving a vaccination taking a major risk by getting vaccinated in the first place?

No medicine is 100% safe for everyone. No one has ever claimed such a thing. The serious complications for MMR vaccine are less than 1 in a milion (and they're not even sure there's a causal link as it's so rare). Considering measles is one of the most infectious diseases known to man with a death rate of less than 1 in 1000 then the risk of vaccines is incredibly small compared to the risks of the disease itself.

I don't think people are denying vaccines have saved a lot of people, these "antivaxxers" (MSM buzzword) don't think all vaccines are bad from most I've had contact with or have seen in comments.

Secondly how do these diseases pop out of nowhere exactly?

a reply to: boymonkey74

sorry but i don't have enough knowledge to give a fair reply . all i do know is that vaccinations scare me , i am not afraid of needles its just that i have seen to many of my friends become seriously ill after them and all of them of a similar age as my self.

i agree that in the past they have helped ,but i am very wary of any new ones that we have today .