Operation Indigo Skyfold

a reply to: ISawItFirst

How do you know the conditions at altitude without sending up something to measure them? You can't say that conditions up there weren't right based on conditions at sea level. They're radically different even a thousand feet up.

originally posted by: waynos
a reply to: ConnectDots

It also shows how the reference to chemtrails within that bill was basically meaningless and not indicative of any kind of admission, which it is often held to be.

Yes, I've already pointed that out.

originally posted by: ConnectDots
I have a fellow concerned citizen who has me on their mailing list. Today I received this copy of a Letter to the Editor in the state of California:

I have found out that the newspaper in question is a local newspaper the Georgetown Gazette. It covers news for the little towns on the divide between Auburn and Georgetown in northern California.

I'm working on getting more information about what is going on there with persistent contrails.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: ISawItFirst

How do you know the conditions at altitude without sending up something to measure them? You can't say that conditions up there weren't right based on conditions at sea level. They're radically different even a thousand feet up.

I don't understand the relation. I'm not measuring anything. Everything except for what I saw was hypothetical.

We know what conditions are required for persistent contrails. In a sense, the contrails do the measuring. If they persist, they are within that range, otherwise they dissipate.

From my possibly flawed understanding, the conditions that allow for persistent contrails are rarely wide ranging, typically existing in small areas for short times. That fits with what I've seen, although I'm open to more involved explanations.

originally posted by: ISawItFirst
Some points. I don't know the extent of plane based weather mods, but it does exist.

I read an article in the early 2000s about Paul McCartney paying 260k to prevent rain on his multi day concert.

Memorial day here 2 years ago was supposed to be a terrible storm. We went fishing anyways. I watched for hours, we were the only boat on the water. At least 3 planes flew wide arcs leaving contrails behind them, creating a huge false storm front between the real storm front and the towns.
The storm was delayed a day and everyone got to go out and go shopping on their day off.

I think the confusion is the above post. Your post indicates that the trails affected the incoming weather. In reality, the weather affects the trails. But aside from all the non-essential parts of the story, did you catch anything?

a reply to: ISawItFirst

The conditions are fairly narrow, but a lot of things affect them. The biggest is new engine types. The newer the engine the more likely to see persistent contrails, and at lower altitudes than before.

As for the front you said was moving in, it's common for contrails to persist when a front is in the area. There is more humidity and moist air being pushed in front of it. You can frequently use contrails to predict the weather for the next 24-48 hours.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Yeah we caught some fish. No charter boats out, or anyone else for that matter. Everyone was scared of the storm. We had em to ourselves.

I'm not talking about a few jets flew by, I'm talking about they flew large overlapping loops for hours, creating this false front in front of the storm front. They overlapped their loops from one end of the front to the other and then flew back the way they came from. I laid on the deck of the boat and watched them the whole time.

My buddy kept telling me we gotta get out before the storm comes and I kept telling him it's not coming. The planes are delaying it.

The amount of money that would have been lost on a huge shopping day if it stormed is exactly why, IMO the local chamber of commerce or like entity contracted to have the storm delayed.

a reply to: ISawItFirst

You haven't said how you know that the planes affected the weather, rather than the weather affecting the planes.

It is an old sailor's rule-of-thumb weather forecast that cirrus clouds indicate an approaching storm- and of course het conditions for cirrus cloud are exactly the conditions for contrails to form and persist - since contrails are the same stuff as cirrus cloud - so it is perfectly reasonable that contrails will form in front of an approaching weather formation.

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

I don't know for sure. I assumed they would do anything they could to get people out and shopping. I assumed they would delay the storm. For money. I went fishing to watch the sky.

I don't know what other purpose these planes could have had. It is no secret that we can do this, like I said previously McCartney paid personally to prevent rain on a concert in europe. China mostly used mortars to achieve it, but they are catching up with weather mod planes.


To be fair, I think this amounts to cloud seeding or the like, I do believe in the possibility of chemtrails, for my own reasons, but it's not something I'm invested in.

Weather modification by planes is a well known fact, unless I am time slipping again. I've read lots about it. Chemtrails, to me, are a different animal.

ETA I saw no cirrus clouds that day. The trails the Jets left were much larger than typical contrails and looked very much like the cumulo nimbus clouds of the storm. If I have that type right.

a reply to: ISawItFirst

Aircraft circle all the time, all over the world, in holding patterns - eg see wiki article.

You do not have to be able to see cirrus for it to be there, and even if it isn't there it is still possible for the conditions to be pretty much perfect - it is just that there hasn't been anything for the cloud to nucleate on.

Weather modification is indeed a well known fact and different from "chemtrails".

a reply to: ISawItFirst

He paid for cloud seeding, which is a totally different thing than chemtrails.

As for the circling there are several reasons. Holding patterns going into a nearby airport that's backed up, holding patten to gain separation from other aircraft, military tankers on a refueling track.

Contrails don't affect fronts moving in though, the fronts moving in affect contrails. There's a lot more moist air that contrails need to form ahead of a front. After it moves through there's less, so you see fewer contrails forming.

a reply to: Zaphod58
Well these ones did. They came and went back from the direction they came from. Whatever they did held off the storm. I know about planes circling for all kinds of reasons. These ones were not. Nor were they near an airport. At least not one that can handle commercial sized aircraft. It was very clear what they were doing.

We've already established that they can do this, and do do this, but for some reason I couldn't have possibly seen it? I don't understand our disconnect.

At first I though it was just the nature of the "chemtrail" debate, but Im not saying that's what these were. But they were definitely weather mod. Successful too. Charter captains don't take off for rain, the storm was imminent.

Whatever it was, they were clearly not normal contrails or even normal persistent contrails.

a reply to: ISawItFirst

And fronts slow down for perfectly naturally reasons. They speed up too.

If you know that planes hold, you should know that they don't hold at high altitude near the airport they are going to. They also don't hold anywhere near the traffic pattern for an airport nearby. They go off the coast if it's near the coast, which is out of the way off traffic.

Military tankers also hold while they wait for receivers to come get fuel. Then they go back the way they came, back to the base they came from.

a reply to: ISawItFirst

Normally, cloud seeding would be done above the clouds that were going to produce rain. The whole purpose is to make them rain where you want. So if these planes were flying around seeding, they should have been trying to get rain to fall, not prevent it. There is another thread here discussing the cloud busters, and that is a different thing as well. Doesn't involve planes.

Look into cloud seeding a bit. The planes used are small Cessnas.
www.physics.org...

originally posted by: ISawItFirst
a reply to: Zaphod58
Well these ones did. They came and went back from the direction they came from. Whatever they did held off the storm. I know about planes circling for all kinds of reasons. These ones were not. Nor were they near an airport. At least not one that can handle commercial sized aircraft. It was very clear what they were doing.

We've already established that they can do this, and do do this, but for some reason I couldn't have possibly seen it? I don't understand our disconnect.

At first I though it was just the nature of the "chemtrail" debate, but Im not saying that's what these were. But they were definitely weather mod. Successful too. Charter captains don't take off for rain, the storm was imminent.

Whatever it was, they were clearly not normal contrails or even normal persistent contrails.

The trail from a plane can no more affect a weather front than the wake of a ship can stop the tide.

You certainly saw what you saw, I don't doubt it at all, it's just that you interpretation of what you saw is completely arse about face.

Paul McCartney paid for cloud seeding, this induces rain to fall earlier and in another place than it would.

Can you explain where you got the idea that plane trails can affect a storm front?

originally posted by: ISawItFirst
a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

I don't know for sure. I assumed they would do anything they could to get people out and shopping. I assumed they would delay the storm. For money. I went fishing to watch the sky.

I don't know what other purpose these planes could have had. It is no secret that we can do this, like I said previously McCartney paid personally to prevent rain on a concert in europe. China mostly used mortars to achieve it, but they are catching up with weather mod planes.


To be fair, I think this amounts to cloud seeding or the like, I do believe in the possibility of chemtrails, for my own reasons, but it's not something I'm invested in.

Weather modification by planes is a well known fact, unless I am time slipping again. I've read lots about it. Chemtrails, to me, are a different animal.

ETA I saw no cirrus clouds that day. The trails the Jets left were much larger than typical contrails and looked very much like the cumulo nimbus clouds of the storm. If I have that type right.

Can i ask you a question? Do you have ANY idea how much energy a storm contains? Because it is well beyond anything we could contro, let alone with something sprayed froma a plane. Im sorry, i dont mean top be rude, but to say things like "they delayed teh storm" is incrediblt naive.

originally posted by: ISawItFirst


The old examples are apples and oranges. Most of those planes were not jets, and they did not fly at a high enough altitude to create persistent contrails. What you see is smog, exhaust etc. Entirely different things.

Well, the B-17 had a ceiloing of 37,000 feet, so you are wrong im afraid

originally posted by: ISawItFirst
a reply to: Zaphod58
Well these ones did. They came and went back from the direction they came from. Whatever they did held off the storm. I know about planes circling for all kinds of reasons. These ones were not. Nor were they near an airport. At least not one that can handle commercial sized aircraft. It was very clear what they were doing.

holding does not need to be near an airport at all - and you still haven't actually identified how you know the contrails were affecting the weather rather than the other way around.

You say "it was very clear" - how so?

originally posted by: ConnectDots

Editor,

The type of high that has been extending over California, Oregon, Washington, and into Canada has been known for more than fifty years as a "warm anticyclone" which usually lasts for weeks at a time and diverts other weather systems around it. But such a high is shaped in a more circular pattern due to something called "Coriolis force" which causes air movement in the northern hemisphere to turn to the right. The wind is then at right angles to the tendency for air to move from the high to the low. The particular pattern we now have is extremely elongated and narrow, causing a relatively straight wind pattern from south to north off the coast. For such a strange configuration to exist and persist it must be "tweaked" from time to time. A most blatant example of such tweaking was seen in the sky today (Feb 19, 2015).

The chemtrails that covered the sky were huge. Usually, the perpetrators of these things keep them off the coast where they are not so obvious, but not lately. Aircraft were spraying from south to north and vice-versa, and from west to east. The trails lingered for hours as
"clouds".

As a navigator and pilot with over 5,000 hours of flying time, and comprehensive courses in meteorology, I know what a normal contrail looks like. These were not normal contrails. Apparently, someone wants California to become a desert so that the food it produces for the nation and the world will simply disappear.

Lew Price, Garden Valley

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: ConnectDots

I wonder what made the contrails abnormal? I'd love to hear his "scientific" point of view on it.

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation
a reply to: network dude
Good luck getting a 'scientific' explanation from Lew Price

originally posted by: Mary Rose
Price has other interests that are included on his website – the menu for his challenge to mainstream physics is under “PHYSICS, MATH, and COSMOLOGY” here.

What an extensive website that is!

I see that one of the other interests is “Survival as a Free Nation.” If you click on that, there is a menu and one of the items is “Climate Change - The truth on the climate change scam, including details of chemtrails and HAARP. ” If you click on that, one of the items on the next menu is “Chemtrails and HAARP” added February 18, 2014.

a reply to: ConnectDots
And the scientific explanation is ______?

Come on Mary. You could at least try to make it look like your post is addressing the posts you quoted.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: ConnectDots

I wonder what made the contrails abnormal? I'd love to hear his "scientific" point of view on it.

At this point in the debate, what is the central question or point of contention, more specifically?