Massive Donetsk Ukraine Explosion

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist

originally posted by: victor7
Because US pokes its nose in lots of nations affairs, near and far. Russia only minds its business in its neighborhood and mostly to the intrusive attempts by the US ex: Georgia and now Ukraine.

Riiiight...

Next are you going to tell me Russia only sends spies to ex-Soviet states, and never had any intention of expanding its influence into western Europe?

comparing sending spies to military actions? how about yugoslavia? iraq? libya? syria? you call yourself openmindedrealist? how about you open your mind to how many MILLIONS of people have DIED during past years because the US f... up other countries they don't agree with? you don't sound like an open minded person so far. you sound like either a complete idiot, or a paid shill. say what you want about russia and putin, but what US have done to this world doesn't even belong to the same category.

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist

originally posted by: victor7
Btw, Obama has given the ULTIMATUM to Putin.

If there is war, it will be because Putin and his cronies engineered it.

I fnd it hard to believe, with all your pride in mother Russia, that you think Putin is frightened by an empty threat from our pushover President.

you're clearly out of your mind.
the crossing point is ukraine, that's obvious. what's also obvious is that the whole revolution here (some call it junta, not without reason) was, and still is, OPENLY sponsored by the west, mainly the US. ukraine was destabilized by the US, the whole conflict is a direct result of said destabilization, and as such US is responsible for both the current and future bloodshed in that region and happening elsewhere because of the situation in that region.

you claim you view the world in a transparent way, you claim you don't defend the US, yet you throw the blame at russia all the time, while downplaying the western blame. let me tell you this, if putin would want war, he would just take ukraine as it is. in 24h his forces would be in kiev and there would be NO independent ukraine, problem solved. no more bloodshed, no more mess. the west would do NOTHING, because no matter how much barking for obama the EU does, at the end of the day they need russian gas, and if things would go south, the whole europe would be screwed.

also, i'm just tired of BS. i live in poland, all the time media report yet another 'intercepting' of russian bomber with nukes, either over baltic sea, near UK, or whatever. intercepting happens when a plane crosses national airspace, russians are flying over international waters so there's both nothing to report and nothing to bark at. yet - constant propaganda and fear tactics. same with everything else regarding ukraine and russia. western media are biased and full of lies, and there's no transparency in their views whatsoever. that's normal though, it's to be expected from those assholes in power after all.

what's less expected and what's pissing me off is the constant flow of those repeating that exact BS here, on ATS. it's almost like 'tv is for morons, so talking heads will do, but for those more intelligent searching the web we'll send some intelligent agents that will try to outsmart them or make them tired of discussing the matter altogether'.

no.
no, no, no, NO.
no shill on this site should be left alone, they shall all have the truth thrown in their face over, and over, and over again, until they realize what kind of crimes they defend.

a reply to: OpenMindedRealist
Nice avatar dude.

But its not secret what is going on, and like you said its a tag team match. Believe it or not it was pretty much the same thing in WW2. I mean I think somebody even said now we even got Joe Biden's son on the board of directors for a Ukrainians oil company. Its pretty much you grease my palm I will grease yours, its been like that for a long time. All the talking heads and pretty lightshows are just there glitz you and others.

And the dead? Well there just numbers on a spreadsheet, If you believe that they give a #, then your a fool. Its all just business as it always been. When it really threatens Russian business and hold on power and money, then it may get messy and you will see more then pro Russian people online.

But in all its pretty much a given, every country and power or group generally has there propaganda section. If you have not notice its been like that for as long as the internet has been around, and before that the TV, and before that the radio, and before that newspapers...ect ect.

Till then, enjoy the show and the tag team hand slapping duets. Here is one from a while ago, though people blame Obama, really the only difference if somebody else was president is not much, merely the different agendas and businesses they represent. Its been said before but they should all walk around like in NASCAR, with the logos of there sponsors on there jackets. Then maybe people may get it...Or not...Probably not.

Oh man this is so confusing, its like a circus or merry go round.

So what was it a fuel or chemical factory? Or just a random drop of some pretty heavy artillery bombs. Maybe there just firing them at random. Its got to be a pretty big and expensive bomb to complexity miss its target even if its outdated, nobody has that bad a aim. But then again a bit of a change in the trajectories and all those people who were filming that brilliant flash at night would be crispy critters in a flash and a bang. Though we would not likely hear about it then.

This whole thing has been like a game of guess who from the beginning. OK! My guess it that it was putin with obama and osama, oh and also isis and the pro anti rebels, who did the deed using the knife in the kitchen...One of them was wearing a hat.

This was certainly not a nuclear detonation.

For one, you'd have a blinding white light. Two, the radioisotopes would show up and finally the seismic sensors would register it.

That, and, Ukraine shouldn't have any nukes. Rumors of soviet tactical weapons? These were 1-5kt, and would've leveled the area.

a reply to: jedi_hamster

Putin would surely commend your efforts...but he'd probably throw you in the gulag after listening to five minutes of such histrionics. You'd think someone from Poland would be more wary of foreign bombers skirting their airspace...

You can 'assert' your version of reality all you want. Those who learn their history from academia rather than RT will never fall for it.

a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

Learn from history? Don't you know its written by the winners? So much for reality, why wait for the aftermath when you can formulate an opinion based on current events rather than historical ones based on different parameters?
Do you believe everything you read?

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
a reply to: jedi_hamster

Putin would surely commend your efforts...but he'd probably throw you in the gulag after listening to five minutes of such histrionics. You'd think someone from Poland would be more wary of foreign bombers skirting their airspace...

You can 'assert' your version of reality all you want. Those who learn their history from academia rather than RT will never fall for it.

first, don't send me to putin - i hate that asshole as much as i hate your puppet-in-charge, barack OBAMA.

second, you're not from poland, so don't even try to judge our priorities. the government created a mess in this country, the whole 'end of communism, beginning of democracy' crap that started in '89 and was orchestrated 10 years earlier, was with a support of your mighty US and the west. result? even worse debt, even worse propaganda, and sure, you can buy an iphone, but you more often think if you'll be able to afford food than some shiny toys. manufacturing destroyed, agroculture destroyed, and our politicians are a bunch of barking dogs for obama, up to the point they're getting treated as outsiders within europe - so sure, it's obvious you claim 'someone from poland would be more wary' - that's the official line US pushes down our throats. the result of it is that our government is considered extremely rusophobic, and we as a nation are considered the most rusophobic one.

lets not forget the fact how US uses the puppets in our government to pay their bills - millions of euro flow from polish budget to ukraine, while polish health care crumbles and the government's answer to ANY needs of polish people is - as always - 'we have no money'.

so yeah, i can understand how some ukrainians, especially with russian roots, are against the 'great western world' of bankers, corruption and demolition of countries and nations in the name of corporate greed.

as a result, i don't give a damn if russian bombers have 'skirted' our airspace - as long as they didn't cross it, everything is fine according to the international law, and we have more pressing matters to worry about. besides, they have iskander missiles, single order from putin and every military base in poland is destroyed within minutes - and the west wouldn't do anything, just like they did nothing when the WW2 started. nato? give me a break. it may serve as an excuse to start a war, but they don't give a damn about our country, just like they don't really give a damn about ukraine.

also, i would rather suspect that it's the US that violates national airspace of russia and other countries on regular basis. after all, they have the top of the line stealth technology, and of course since noone saw them, you can act all like it never happened - plausible deniability all the way, just like your masters.

and btw, i don't read RT (i actually just wanted to write 'watch', then i've realized it's a newspaper and a portal i think, not a tv channel), but i don't accept academia unconditionally either. history is written by the victors, as such it is only half of the truth at best.

Your vision is clouded by what you think you know.

Has it occurred to you that a person can support his own government only when it is deserving of support?

Do you think it's logical to assume any critic of Putin's Russia is a supporter of the current US government? You and other members are so caught up in your absolutist, black-vs-white worldview. I'm sure it makes things easier, but it gets you no closer to the truth.

When I mentioned Poland, I was referring to the Nazi invasion -- an act of aggression many around the world saw coming. Guess it's just one of those things; people rarely learn from history, be it ten years ago or a hundred. Don't you think it hypocritical that you expect NATO or some other military force to protect your country from foreign invasion, while you trash the US and its allies?

You claim I have no right to comment on Polish matters because I am not from Poland. That means you are resticted to commenting only on Polish issues, correct?

I don't expect you to conceed that point or retract your previous statement. Nor do I expect you to recognize that you are playing the same game which you accuse me of playing, just for the other side.

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
Your vision is clouded by what you think you know.

Has it occurred to you that a person can support his own government only when it is deserving of support?

Do you think it's logical to assume any critic of Putin's Russia is a supporter of the current US government? You and other members are so caught up in your absolutist, black-vs-white worldview. I'm sure it makes things easier, but it gets you no closer to the truth.

When I mentioned Poland, I was referring to the Nazi invasion -- an act of aggression many around the world saw coming. Guess it's just one of those things; people rarely learn from history, be it ten years ago or a hundred. Don't you think it hypocritical that you expect NATO or some other military force to protect your country from foreign invasion, while you trash the US and its allies?

You claim I have no right to comment on Polish matters because I am not from Poland. That means you are resticted to commenting only on Polish issues, correct?

I don't expect you to conceed that point or retract your previous statement. Nor do I expect you to recognize that you are playing the same game which you accuse me of playing, just for the other side.

i'm not playing any game. you are. you're constantly whitewashing the west by suggesting the blame is on russia's side, either directly or by careful wordplay. painting one side black doesn't make the other side all white, but that's a game most people can get caught up in easily - as i've said, people with your agenda do what they can to outsmart others.

as for your right to comment, you're putting words in my mouth. i've said you shouldn't try to judge - yet you do, and you fail miserably. i knew you were referring to WW2. also - another failure when it comes to your reading with understanding - i don't expect nato or any other military force to protect my country. i'm well aware the whole treaty is worth as much as a US constitution was to bush - it's just a goddamn piece of paper.

and i have every right to trash US and the west, because as much as i hate how my country looked like under russian influence, now it isn't much better, and in many, many ways, it is much, much worse. communism and capitalism - two sides of the same coin, one in the east, one in the west, both based on the same greed and corruption - but communism at least didn't pretend it's something else, and you knew exactly where your freedom ended. nowadays you can be arrested for a post on facebook and you're given illusions of freedom and truth all around, when in reality the propaganda of mass media is far more blatant than the propaganda of communist media ever was. don't get me wrong, i'm the last person wishing the return of that era, i'm just stating the obvious, because you can't even see it - you're so busy twisting my words to match your agenda.

and yeah, i know many saw the nazi invasion coming. they also knew hitler will turn to the west when he finishes here, so their respect to the papers signed ended up in goddamn pieces of paper falling from the sky, because instead of helping us like they said they will, they've decided to buy themselves some time. and then polish people helped them fight off nazis when they attacked england - go to your history books and check what kind of thanks we got for that.

and when you're at it, read about bandera and his followers, read what they did to polish people. as someone said, it can't be even compared to what russians did to us - russians murdered many polish people, sure. but those were crimes made by the system - few people at the top gave orders and they could either kill polish people or be killed. it was nothing personal, it was war. ukrainians following bandera on the other hand, had hatred towards polish people one cannot imagine - and they have it to these days. they weren't just military - there were highly educated people, there were priests, there were simple peasants, there were regular neighbours of polish people. when the butchering has started, it was just that - butchering. killing people slowly, for hours, cutting them to pieces, chopping off pregnant woman's arms, legs, after raping her, and before cutting out her baby from her and smashing it on the wall while she was still alive. those are real stories and people that commited such crimes, don't even deserve to be compared to animals. yet bandera is a national hero for western ukraine these days, and polish politicians go out of their ways to never mention what happened back then, and give millions to those that follow his footsteps.

and you think you can judge my views and understanding of the situation? people in charge in ukraine are butchers, they are sponsored by butchers (US, nato), yet you throw some crap like 'your vision is clouded' and 'you think you know'. i'm not playing games and i know exactly what i'm talking about.

you are playing games. you've silently ignored every single negative fact about US/west and their actions that i've mentioned. and no, don't bother explaining how iraq was a mistake, libya a neccessity, and how syria can be saved by the mighty US. noone needs their help, nor lies. just go to hell and take your politicians with you.

a reply to: jedi_hamster

You've answered none of my pertinent questions. Why should I indulge your ramblings which contribute nothing to the thread?

You repeatedly claim that I am somehow defending the US, when absolutely nothing I have said in this thread defends the United States in any way. Sure, I've been critical of Russia...and apparently that leads you to make the illogical assumption that I could only be doing so in order to further some pro-American agenda.

This is what I mean when I say you are seeing things in black and white. To you, anyone who speaks negatively of Russia (or does not speak negatively of the US) has a sinister agenda. You've made up your mind to ignore anything that doesn't fit your narrative, and it would be a waste of my time to engage you further. I only write this post because an unfortunate number of ATS members share your fallacious mindset, and there may be hope for a few.

And of course you have a right to say anything you want about the US or any other country. You don't seem to realize it's a two way street, and I have a right to state my own observations. Instead of jumping up and down screaming that I am a shill or misinformed, you could have attempted to form a cogent rebuttal. Might have kept this thread from dying.

a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

You repeatedly claim that I am somehow defending the US, when absolutely nothing I have said in this thread defends the United States in any way.

Yes you did, by trying to make it look like what Russia was doing comparable to what the US does...we are not that stupid to see it for what it is.

You don't seem to realize it's a two way street...

So you will always say if someone punched someone, it`s their own fault and they asked for it ?

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

You repeatedly claim that I am somehow defending the US, when absolutely nothing I have said in this thread defends the United States in any way.

Yes you did, by trying to make it look like what Russia was doing comparable to what the US does...we are not that stupid to see it for what it is.

You don't seem to realize it's a two way street...

So you will always say if someone punched someone, it`s their own fault and they asked for it ?

Except in the case of Ukraine, if the countries were people it would have gone something like this:

Ukraine: Hey Russia, I know we've friends for a long time now, but I think wanna go hang out with those guys in the EU house for a while.

Russia: You'll be sorrry.....

Ukraine: No I'll be alright, let me do my own thing for a while. We can still be cool, but the EU guys have nachos.

Russia: No. (Punch)

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I never said you were stupid. But it is obvious that English is not your first language.

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
a reply to: jedi_hamster

You've answered none of my pertinent questions. Why should I indulge your ramblings which contribute nothing to the thread?

You repeatedly claim that I am somehow defending the US, when absolutely nothing I have said in this thread defends the United States in any way. Sure, I've been critical of Russia...and apparently that leads you to make the illogical assumption that I could only be doing so in order to further some pro-American agenda.

This is what I mean when I say you are seeing things in black and white. To you, anyone who speaks negatively of Russia (or does not speak negatively of the US) has a sinister agenda. You've made up your mind to ignore anything that doesn't fit your narrative, and it would be a waste of my time to engage you further. I only write this post because an unfortunate number of ATS members share your fallacious mindset, and there may be hope for a few.

And of course you have a right to say anything you want about the US or any other country. You don't seem to realize it's a two way street, and I have a right to state my own observations. Instead of jumping up and down screaming that I am a shill or misinformed, you could have attempted to form a cogent rebuttal. Might have kept this thread from dying.

of course the world isn't black and white. it's mostly black. world powers, be it russia, US or anyone else, ARE evil. not speaking negatively of the US while speaking negatively of russia or other countries makes you look like a paid shill because it's a sign of extreme hypocrisy at best. just check how many deaths of civillians were caused during past years by both russia and US, and if you still can't see the problem with your thinking then, go to a doctor to get your head checked.

i'm done with your blabling. you're right in one thing, it's not worth derailing this thread.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

You repeatedly claim that I am somehow defending the US, when absolutely nothing I have said in this thread defends the United States in any way.

Yes you did, by trying to make it look like what Russia was doing comparable to what the US does...we are not that stupid to see it for what it is.

You don't seem to realize it's a two way street...

So you will always say if someone punched someone, it`s their own fault and they asked for it ?

Except in the case of Ukraine, if the countries were people it would have gone something like this:

Ukraine: Hey Russia, I know we've friends for a long time now, but I think wanna go hang out with those guys in the EU house for a while.

Russia: You'll be sorrry.....

Ukraine: No I'll be alright, let me do my own thing for a while. We can still be cool, but the EU guys have nachos.

Russia: No. (Punch)

except that's not what happened. they wanted to take a step back from the pro-western course so they got punched by both US and EU - or rather, their government was replaced by those being paid by the west, and now everybody blames russia.

do some research, there was a poll in the crimea to ask people if they would like to join back russia if they would have a choice - most said yes. and that poll took place BEFORE the whole maidan thing.

heck, i even saw it mentioned somewhere today that according to the pentagon, ukrainian 'evidence' that russian army invaded the ukraine, is made of a photos dating back to around 2008 and in general is worth nothing.

it's not like russia needs ukraine - russia needs crimea, but crimea was always pro-russian and had a great deal of autonomy already.

ukraine, as a nation, and as a country, needs russia. but those in charge in ukraine don't give a damn about ukraine as a nation or as a country, they care about their own pockets. they're destroying ukraine and will continue to do so as long as they can - and they can do so as long as they have the support of the west. heck, they don't even have support of their own people.

originally posted by: jedi_hamster

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

You repeatedly claim that I am somehow defending the US, when absolutely nothing I have said in this thread defends the United States in any way.

Yes you did, by trying to make it look like what Russia was doing comparable to what the US does...we are not that stupid to see it for what it is.

You don't seem to realize it's a two way street...

So you will always say if someone punched someone, it`s their own fault and they asked for it ?

Except in the case of Ukraine, if the countries were people it would have gone something like this:

Ukraine: Hey Russia, I know we've friends for a long time now, but I think wanna go hang out with those guys in the EU house for a while.

Russia: You'll be sorrry.....

Ukraine: No I'll be alright, let me do my own thing for a while. We can still be cool, but the EU guys have nachos.

Russia: No. (Punch)

except that's not what happened. they wanted to take a step back from the pro-western course so they got punched by both US and EU - or rather, their government was replaced by those being paid by the west, and now everybody blames russia.

do some research, there was a poll in the crimea to ask people if they would like to join back russia if they would have a choice - most said yes. and that poll took place BEFORE the whole maidan thing.

heck, i even saw it mentioned somewhere today that according to the pentagon, ukrainian 'evidence' that russian army invaded the ukraine, is made of a photos dating back to around 2008 and in general is worth nothing.

it's not like russia needs ukraine - russia needs crimea, but crimea was always pro-russian and had a great deal of autonomy already.

ukraine, as a nation, and as a country, needs russia. but those in charge in ukraine don't give a damn about ukraine as a nation or as a country, they care about their own pockets. they're destroying ukraine and will continue to do so as long as they can - and they can do so as long as they have the support of the west. heck, they don't even have support of their own people.

I have no doubts a small majority in Crimea would be in favor of rejoining Russia. The latest census puts native Russians as the most populous demographic in Crimea, followed closely by Crimean Tartars.

The ACTUAL vote was a pure sham. Though I believe if the vote had been fair, it still would have been in favor of Russia.

There are no innocent parties in this Ukraine. Russia is just as at fault as the EU/West are. Both sides are in Ukraine for their own selfish reasons. I personally believe Russia wants an uninterrupted land bridge to Crimea. And of course, the EU/West wants Ukraine to join them to have another nation that borders Russia be sympathetic to NATO allegiances.

I just take issue with the fact that the Pro-Russia side of things continues to insist that Putin/Russia is the purely innocent party in all of this.

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: jedi_hamster

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

You repeatedly claim that I am somehow defending the US, when absolutely nothing I have said in this thread defends the United States in any way.

Yes you did, by trying to make it look like what Russia was doing comparable to what the US does...we are not that stupid to see it for what it is.

You don't seem to realize it's a two way street...

So you will always say if someone punched someone, it`s their own fault and they asked for it ?

Except in the case of Ukraine, if the countries were people it would have gone something like this:

Ukraine: Hey Russia, I know we've friends for a long time now, but I think wanna go hang out with those guys in the EU house for a while.

Russia: You'll be sorrry.....

Ukraine: No I'll be alright, let me do my own thing for a while. We can still be cool, but the EU guys have nachos.

Russia: No. (Punch)

except that's not what happened. they wanted to take a step back from the pro-western course so they got punched by both US and EU - or rather, their government was replaced by those being paid by the west, and now everybody blames russia.

do some research, there was a poll in the crimea to ask people if they would like to join back russia if they would have a choice - most said yes. and that poll took place BEFORE the whole maidan thing.

heck, i even saw it mentioned somewhere today that according to the pentagon, ukrainian 'evidence' that russian army invaded the ukraine, is made of a photos dating back to around 2008 and in general is worth nothing.

it's not like russia needs ukraine - russia needs crimea, but crimea was always pro-russian and had a great deal of autonomy already.

ukraine, as a nation, and as a country, needs russia. but those in charge in ukraine don't give a damn about ukraine as a nation or as a country, they care about their own pockets. they're destroying ukraine and will continue to do so as long as they can - and they can do so as long as they have the support of the west. heck, they don't even have support of their own people.

I have no doubts a small majority in Crimea would be in favor of rejoining Russia. The latest census puts native Russians as the most populous demographic in Crimea, followed closely by Crimean Tartars.

The ACTUAL vote was a pure sham. Though I believe if the vote had been fair, it still would have been in favor of Russia.

There are no innocent parties in this Ukraine. Russia is just as at fault as the EU/West are. Both sides are in Ukraine for their own selfish reasons. I personally believe Russia wants an uninterrupted land bridge to Crimea. And of course, the EU/West wants Ukraine to join them to have another nation that borders Russia be sympathetic to NATO allegiances.

I just take issue with the fact that the Pro-Russia side of things continues to insist that Putin/Russia is the purely innocent party in all of this.

small majority?
populous demographic?

more than 60% of crimea population are russians.
more than 79% of crimea population has declared russian to be their mother tongue.

also, back in 2008 63.8% of people declared their support for crimea leaving ukraine and joining russia. amongst those 63.8%: 75.9% of russians, 55.2% of ukrainians (more than a half!) and 13.8% of tatars.

and that was back in 2008, without fascist junta in charge in kiev. so no, i don't think there was any sham there.

ukraine wouldn't give a damn about crimea, especially considering how pro-russian it was already, but they had their gas price lowered because russia was allowed to have a military base there. then russia took crimea back, 'you're not in charge there anymore so no more price cuts for ya' - and kiev got pissed. rightfully? not at all, imho. it's their own fault they've lost crimea, and they didn't bother to pay for the gas despite the price cuts anyway.

lets get back on the boom-boom subject, shall we?
any news on the missile wreckage?

originally posted by: jedi_hamster

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: jedi_hamster

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

You repeatedly claim that I am somehow defending the US, when absolutely nothing I have said in this thread defends the United States in any way.

Yes you did, by trying to make it look like what Russia was doing comparable to what the US does...we are not that stupid to see it for what it is.

You don't seem to realize it's a two way street...

So you will always say if someone punched someone, it`s their own fault and they asked for it ?

Except in the case of Ukraine, if the countries were people it would have gone something like this:

Ukraine: Hey Russia, I know we've friends for a long time now, but I think wanna go hang out with those guys in the EU house for a while.

Russia: You'll be sorrry.....

Ukraine: No I'll be alright, let me do my own thing for a while. We can still be cool, but the EU guys have nachos.

Russia: No. (Punch)

except that's not what happened. they wanted to take a step back from the pro-western course so they got punched by both US and EU - or rather, their government was replaced by those being paid by the west, and now everybody blames russia.

do some research, there was a poll in the crimea to ask people if they would like to join back russia if they would have a choice - most said yes. and that poll took place BEFORE the whole maidan thing.

heck, i even saw it mentioned somewhere today that according to the pentagon, ukrainian 'evidence' that russian army invaded the ukraine, is made of a photos dating back to around 2008 and in general is worth nothing.

it's not like russia needs ukraine - russia needs crimea, but crimea was always pro-russian and had a great deal of autonomy already.

ukraine, as a nation, and as a country, needs russia. but those in charge in ukraine don't give a damn about ukraine as a nation or as a country, they care about their own pockets. they're destroying ukraine and will continue to do so as long as they can - and they can do so as long as they have the support of the west. heck, they don't even have support of their own people.

I have no doubts a small majority in Crimea would be in favor of rejoining Russia. The latest census puts native Russians as the most populous demographic in Crimea, followed closely by Crimean Tartars.

The ACTUAL vote was a pure sham. Though I believe if the vote had been fair, it still would have been in favor of Russia.

There are no innocent parties in this Ukraine. Russia is just as at fault as the EU/West are. Both sides are in Ukraine for their own selfish reasons. I personally believe Russia wants an uninterrupted land bridge to Crimea. And of course, the EU/West wants Ukraine to join them to have another nation that borders Russia be sympathetic to NATO allegiances.

I just take issue with the fact that the Pro-Russia side of things continues to insist that Putin/Russia is the purely innocent party in all of this.

small majority?
populous demographic?

more than 60% of crimea population are russians.
more than 79% of crimea population has declared russian to be their mother tongue.

also, back in 2008 63.8% of people declared their support for crimea leaving ukraine and joining russia. amongst those 63.8%: 75.9% of russians, 55.2% of ukrainians (more than a half!) and 13.8% of tatars.

and that was back in 2008, without fascist junta in charge in kiev. so no, i don't think there was any sham there.

ukraine wouldn't give a damn about crimea, especially considering how pro-russian it was already, but they had their gas price lowered because russia was allowed to have a military base there. then russia took crimea back, 'you're not in charge there anymore so no more price cuts for ya' - and kiev got pissed. rightfully? not at all, imho. it's their own fault they've lost crimea, and they didn't bother to pay for the gas despite the price cuts anyway.

lets get back on the boom-boom subject, shall we?
any news on the missile wreckage?

I don't know why you chose to lecture me on Crimea when I ceded that Crimea would have gone to Russia anyway in a fair vote. I agreed with you on that.

I do like your use of the term "Junta" when describing Kiev. It makes it obvious where your allegiances lie. No further constructive discussion can come from the two us conversing. Have a great day.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

and btw, i take issue with the fact that people use words like 'small majority' to paint their own version of the picture, yet at the same time they claim they follow no agenda and just want a fair look at the situation at hand.

'small majority'. fair look my ass.

a reply to: ScientificRailgun

hah, you judge my use of 'junta' (just my realistic opinion about that bunch of criminals there), yet you use reality-bending words like 'small majority'.

here, putin is a scumbag and he's no better than obama at heart. happy? where do my 'allegiances' lie now?

i'm just being realistic. when someone considers russia and putin worse than the west, or he thinks that people in charge in kiev are honest and fair and want peace at all, he's just nothing but a sheeple.