Fraternities/Secret Societies

I am a new member to this site, but I have been reading posts here for a while and I have a question. And perhaps this may seem odd to some of you. However, I have noticed that several of these posts assume that the Freemasons as well as College fraternities have some sort of connection to a New World Order. As a member of both a college fraternity as well as a Mason, I find this rather curious. Perhaps someone can explain this to me.

Hello skullman!!

Not being a college frat member myself, couldn't tell ya. As far as Masonry is concerned, I am a Mason myself, and it mostly stems from Masons having associated in the past with the Bavarian Illuminati, our "bloody oaths", and how "only 5% of Masons really know what's going on". Those being the 31st, 32nd, and 33rd degree. Yet when a 32nd denies any NWO associations it's because "he doesn't know enough because he's not a 33rd." If he's a 33rd, and denies it, "he must not be a Mason", "only 1% of 33rds know the truth", or "he's lying".
The most entertaing posts are those (no offense for those with a genuine curiosity) who talk to a 32nd, or what ever, it's revealed that there is no HIGHER degree than the 3rd, and everyone gets confused because there's a 32nd degree. The Masons must be liars!!! What are they hiding? etc..etc...etc...
That's what alot of the posts here boil down to.
There are those that hear both sides, then want to join Masons I've noticed.
Maybe there's a Mason(s) who a part of a modern day conspiracy/Illuminati, but it does not involve Masonry as a whole. It's probably like a group of Masons who got disavowed from the CIA or something.
Here's a link with a lot more stuff on these interesting tales.

freemasonry.bcy.ca...

As far as Masonry and the Illuminati ties, they really existed, although not widely and very briefly in the 18th century.

Other Masons here, correct me if I'm wrong.

[edit on 12/15/2004 by cotwom]

It is in my opinion it is a simple case of "Fear of the Unknown".

Due to the fact that people do not know everything about them, their own minds conjure up all sorts of fantasy, which in turn leads to paranoia, which in turn leads to fear, which results in conspiracy.

There are people that do hold genuine concerns, those normally are to do with their own interpretation of their faith, to which there is no argument.

Others, as you will see if you read some of the current posts, the old posts and the really old posts, the conversations are more or less the same.

There are hundreds of sources of information which has been copied and cloned from one original theory, over time the copy, of a copy, of copy, has deteriorated and what started as a probable genuine concern has escalated into utter madness, with conspiracies being seen everywhere.

To me it's a very simple answer.

Where-ever you get groups of people together you will find other groups of people who will cast aspersions about them. It's an unfortunate trait of human nature.

The NWO conspiracy angle was probably chosen because some figures in masonry have been powerful people, both in thought and wealth - although pretty unsuprising when you realise that Freemasonry accepts all men, regardless of social background or capability. But because there have been major historical figures who have been Freemasons, and even though there is absolutely no proof of a conspiracy, they must have been up to something, right? And if they are up to something, then so is Freemasonry, right?

Twisted logic.

Originally posted by Leveller
The NWO conspiracy angle was probably chosen because some figures in masonry have been powerful people,

I reckon the conspiricist are just getting lazy, and created the NWO so they can have a go at all societies at the same time

Originally posted by cotwom
Here's a link with a lot more stuff on these interesting tales.

freemasonry.bcy.ca...




Hello Cotwom, I have read a lot on that link and it seems that Freemasons have debunked every negative slander or opinion of Freemasonry. In fact they have refuted so many theorys that it almost makes one wonder whats left besides a good ole boys club that gets together and talks about baseball and football over a nice dinner.

That is simply because, the Masons are interelated with organizations like the Illumanti and S&B(a satanic group) and have the power to influence global affairs. As so little is known about their actions, other than then their claims of being a charitable and spiritual organization, and considering the state of global affairs. It makes people suspicious of them. In fact be very wary of elite secret socities that have global powers. These kinds of elite socities have been around for hundreds or thousands of years, and involved in all kinds of sinister acts. Dracula was a member of an elite secret society, The Order Of The Dragon, very similar to the Knights Templar.

If they were positive organizations, why would they hide from the common people? They're more like secret religions than societies. Look at history and look at today. If these are the people that influenced it, then can they possibly be "positive" I don't want you to answer that. I just want you to think about it.

I am not entirely sure about the Masons, because my research of them is limited. However, the truth is, that only a tiny few Masons actually reach the highest degrees and that is because of their actual bloodlines. I am indeed very suspicious of Masons.

[edit on 18-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I am not entirely sure about the Masons, because my research of them is limited. However, the truth is, that only a tiny few Masons actually reach the highest degrees and that is because of their actual bloodlines. I am indeed very suspicious of Masons.

I guess, it has been told more than thousand times here that the highest degree is the third degree � master mason.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I am not entirely sure about the Masons, because my research of them is limited.

I never cease to be amazed by comments such as yours. You admit to not being knowledgable on the subject.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
However, the truth is, that only a tiny few Masons actually reach the highest degrees and that is because of their actual bloodlines. I am indeed very suspicious of Masons.

But then you proceed to comment on the subject on which you admit a lack the knowledge. Please define these highest degrees that most Masons do not reach. Also I'd like an explanation of the required bloodlines needed to reach these higher degrees.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I am indeed very suspicious of Masons.

As for myself, I am very suspicious of people that make sweeping comments on subjects about which they are ignorant.
.

*sigh* Df1, I said I am not that knowledgeable of the Masons, so how can I be ignorant if I actually admit that I know not. I am being humble and honest, and you hit me over the head with it. I have never felt the inclination to research indepth about Masons, though I know that it is an elite secret society and read a few things about it, even met a "blue lodge" mason, who I did not particularly like.

I think you are forgetting there is a high degree of Masons, known as the Scottish Ritte 33rd degree Masons, that very few Masons achieve. If I get time Ill research on it further.

However, the point I was making was a general statment on elite secret socities that have power. I don't know much about Masons to say if it is something sinister, but I don't trust it. Nor do I actually buy into the conspiracy theories against Masons being behind every disaster, war or assasination in the world due to some numeric symbolism. I was actually reading such article today; it made me laugh.

[edit on 18-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
That is simply because, the Masons are interelated with organizations like the Illumanti and S&B(a satanic group) and have the power to influence global affairs.

Masonry is not interelated with either Skull and Bones or Illuminati in any way, shape, or form. Freemasonry is far older than these other two fraternities, and it could perhaps be said that Masonry influenced the other two, but Masonry does not recognize either of them as being a part of our fraternity in any way.

The Skull and Bones is a college fraternity, and most of its active members are not yet old enough to become Masons. The Illuminati, on the other hand, had many members who were also Masons, but membership in the Illuminati did not make one a Mason.

Neither Skull and Bones nor Illuminati were satanic. The Illuminati was a society of anti-papal free thinkers of the late 18th century. It was interested in politics, not religion.
Skull and Bones is a debating society at Yale University. Aside from the pseudo-spooky initiation rituals that most college frats employ, that fraternity has no interest in such beliefs either.

As so little is known about their actions, other than then their claims of being a charitable and spiritual organization, and considering the state of global affairs.

There is practically nothing about Masonry that is "little known". It has been dissected and discussed in depth in a million books, both by Masons and by opponents of Masonry.

If they were positive organizations, why would they hide from the common people? They're more like secret religions than societies. Look at history and look at today. If these are the people that influenced it, then can they possibly be "positive" I don't want you to answer that. I just want you to think about it.

Masonry does not hide from anyone today. In the past, it was necessary to operate in secret in order to escape the persecution of the Church. This was also why the Illuminati was originally secret. There is no longer anything secret about the Illuminati at all: when Adam Weishaupt disbanded it, he published all of its former secret documents and rituals in his book "In Defense of Illuminism."

I am not entirely sure about the Masons, because my research of them is limited. However, the truth is, that only a tiny few Masons actually reach the highest degrees and that is because of their actual bloodlines. I am indeed very suspicious of Masons.

I suppose that's only fair; after all, I'm very suspicious of conspiracy theorists, or at least suspicious of their agendas. Even though the individual conspiracy theorist may not have a dark agenda, I'd bet the people who sit around inventing conspiracy stories do. Consider Nazi Germany, a totalitarian government based on feeding people conspiracy theories in order to frighten them into submission.

I think you are forgetting there is a high degree of Masons, known as the Scottish Ritte 33rd degree Masons, that very few Masons achieve. If I get time Ill research on it further.

The 33� of the Scottish Rite is an honorary degree conferred on members of the Rite for outstanding service to the Rite, the Fraternity, the nation, or the community. This degree is a great honor, but those Brothers who hold it are not "higher" than any other Mason, they've only been singled out to be honored in the fraternity.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
*sigh* Df1, I said I am not that knowledgeable of the Masons, so how can I be ignorant if I actually admit that I know not. I am being humble and honest, and you hit me over the head with it. I have never felt the inclination to research indepth about Masons, though I know that it is an elite secret society and read a few things about it, even met a "blue lodge" mason, who I did not particularly like.

Confessing a lack of knowledge does not absolve you of the mantle of ignorance, it merely demonstrates a lack of judgment as you continue to comment on a subject that you are devoid of percipience. I am curious as to how the fraternity of Freemasonry can be an �elite secret society� when any man can petition to be a member, and it�s existence is common knowledge?

I think you are forgetting there is a high degree of Masons, known as the Scottish Ritte 33rd degree Masons, that very few Masons achieve. If I get time Ill research on it further.


Again, the highest Degree in Freemasonry is the Sublime Degree of Master Mason, the Third Degree. Period. The Scottish Rite is an appendant body (I belong to the Southern Jurisdiction, and I am a 32nd Degree Scottish Rite Mason, it�s irrelevant in terms of �rank�). Another misconception is that there are �few� 33rd Degree Masons� Go to a Scottish Rite Reunion (the big meeting when the Degrees are conferred), you�ll be tripping over �White Hats.�

There are sure a lot of Masons here. That is interesting in as of itself. So, I ask the Masons, what are your opinions on the NWO, S&B, war on terrorism
, Iraq, Patriot acts and Bush. I am curious.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
There are sure a lot of Masons here. That is interesting in as of itself. So, I ask the Masons, what are your opinions on the NWO, S&B, war on terrorism
, Iraq, Patriot acts and Bush. I am curious.

NWO, couldn't tell ya. The illuminati wont talk to me anymore.

S&B, Skull and Bones, Kerry and Bush were members, that's where I lose interest.

War on Terrorism, Let's just say I'm not a big fan of Bush.

Iraq, Never been there. I'll let you know when I visit.

Patriot Acts, haven't studied this topic

Bush, already covered this. No I wouldn't have liked Kerry better, I just don't like Bush

BTW, I'm speaking as an individual Mason, not for Masonry.

[edit on 12/18/2004 by cotwom]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
There are sure a lot of Masons here. That is interesting in as of itself. So, I ask the Masons, what are your opinions on the NWO, S&B, war on terrorism
, Iraq, Patriot acts and Bush. I am curious.

The following are my personal opinions; Masons come from all walks of life, religions, political parties, etc., and no doubt there are many who would disagree with me. Nevertheless, here we go:

NWO

The term "new world order" was first used by Alexander Hamilton and James Madison to describe the spread of liberal democracy in the west, which would, according to them, eventually replace the the absolute monarchies.
However, the term as used by conspiracy theorists seems to me to be the works of fiction and paranoid fantasy.

S&B

Skull and Bones is a fraternity at Yale University; in the late 1980's, it went co-ed and began admitting female students. It's nothing special to me; practically every campus has a secret society with a spooky reputation, I was a member of one myself.
The only reason that the Bones are more popular than the rest is because a few famous politicals were members when they were in school. But this really isn't very surprising considering that you have to have wealth in order to be politician because you have to partially fund your campaign, and that many Yale students come from wealthy families.

Furthermore, you also have to remember that only college students can be active members of Skull and Bones. Therefore, instead of controlling the world, the leaders of Skull and Bones in fact spend their days flipping burgers at McDonald's, skateboarding, and cramming for history exams.

war on terrorism

I support the aggressive elimination of the Taliban regime in Afghanistan, if that's what you mean.

Iraq

I opposed the invasion of Iraq when it began, and I oppose it now.

Patriot acts

I oppose any legislation that attempts to usurp the natural rights of our citizenry, including certain provisions in the Patriot Act.

Bush

I voted against him twice. Personally, I don't think Bush is smart enough to be dangerous, but Cheney, Rumsfeld, etc., certainly are, and I believe that it is they who are really running the show.

Thank you for your responses. However, I understand that I am hijacking this thread. So if you do not mind, I wish to start a seperate topic, covering a plethora of issues regualrly discussed here.

IC...Thanks for the comments; these were just what I was looking for. However, I do want to make a point here, The Masons and college fraternities are just that, fraternities. They are groups of people coming together for a common goal. In the case of college fraternities that goal may be friendship, belonging or a sense of brotherhood. As far as the Masons are concerned in most cases their common goal is improving life for the community in which they live.

However just because people belong to a fraternity then go on to achieve great things in life does not, in my opinion, mean that they are part of some conspiracy or even that they fraternity in question gave them any assistance in getting to that place in their life, other then the values that they learned while being involved with the given fraternity.

For example Roger Chaffee was a proud member of my college fraternity (Phi Kappa Sigma) however it is very hard for me to believe that he was in anyway assisted in his career by the fraternity, although I would think that his time spent at I.T.T and in the Skull House there did teach him something that was no doubt helpful in his career.

As far as being secret there is nothing that either the Masons or the Phi Kappa Sigma hold to be secret other then what has to be. For example I am sure that you do not share your families finances with anyone other than your family, so in turn are they secret?

I also hope that you have found some of the other posts to be helpful

"Skull and Bones is a debating society at Yale University"
This is hilarious
I guess that shed some light on it

First off, the Knights Templar were NOT a secret society. They were a monastic Order of Knights whose purpose it was to try to preserve the foothold of Christendom in the Holyland. They had their Chapter meetings in secret, just as all Monastic Orders did not to hide evil, but to better run their own business without interference.

Just because a large organization is working for good, and the world as a whole doesn't appear to be, that doesn't mean that the organization is a failure or that they're "mission" is a false one. Sometimes, you can try your best and stuff just happens.

The Order of the Dragon was another Chivalric society in Eastern Europe. Recent Internet postings would have you believe that they are a secret group interweaving with all sorts of other powerful organizations. I've seen these statements and while they talk big. There is no PROOF that they even existed as more than a surviving Order of Knighthood.

I have great respect for researchers, but little for those who make assumptions without proof.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
That is simply because, the Masons are interelated with organizations like the Illumanti and S&B(a satanic group) and have the power to influence global affairs. As so little is known about their actions, other than then their claims of being a charitable and spiritual organization, and considering the state of global affairs. It makes people suspicious of them. In fact be very wary of elite secret socities that have global powers. These kinds of elite socities have been around for hundreds or thousands of years, and involved in all kinds of sinister acts. Dracula was a member of an elite secret society, The Order Of The Dragon, very similar to the Knights Templar.

If they were positive organizations, why would they hide from the common people? They're more like secret religions than societies. Look at history and look at today. If these are the people that influenced it, then can they possibly be "positive" I don't want you to answer that. I just want you to think about it.

I am not entirely sure about the Masons, because my research of them is limited. However, the truth is, that only a tiny few Masons actually reach the highest degrees and that is because of their actual bloodlines. I am indeed very suspicious of Masons.

[edit on 18-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]

If you look at the apron that Masons wear you will find the Skull and Bones
( at the very center) they show a G in public
Masons and symbolism and the skull and bones
I don't think you need to call Dick Tracey to figure that one out

www.mystae.com...

Masons hold deception in honor. Pikes quote about this is all over the web, from many sources.

I am a battleship to the Crafts spitballs