Christians, are violent old testament verses relevant to your beliefs today?

a reply to: WarminIndy

You do realize that you're equating what god did in the OT with abortion, something you think is wrong don't you?

You're basically implying that god is on the same level as a parent who decides to abort their child.

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy

Nope, WHAT sin did the baby commit to deserve the death sentence of abortion?

The same sin that everyone that deserves death committed, in God's eyes. Again, the God of the Old Testament ordered abortions.

So you agree with God that you are permitted to have an abortion? So if God said it was ok, then wouldn't you be agreeing with God?

And by extension that would imply that you would be in agreement with abortionists.

Yes or no, do you agree with God or not that abortions are ok?

If abortions are ok, then apparently you have no disagreement with the OT.

So what's the problem?

First off, I do not regard the bible so don't bother asking me questions about God.

Secondly if baby slaughter in the OT is okay, then apparently you have no disagreement with abortionists, which I guess is a good thing.

Third, what about killing old people and children and women in the bible? Biblical violence also includes that.
Or did you think you could derail this discussion by making it an argument about abortion?

No, no derailing. What the OP is about is violence, therefore, we should include all. But since you included violence, I am giving my response.

Abortion is indeed violence toward the pre-born infants. You are going to have to take a hard look at that if you want to discuss violence.

But I suppose in your world, it is ok to denounce God for your very own perspective of violence. So you are ok promoting violence while at the same time denouncing it?

originally posted by: windword
I don't agree that the God of the Old Testament existed.

I hear ya'. The things attributed to God in the OT were probably mostly just the people of that time interjecting God into their own wars and politics. Much of the 'God' of the Old Testament seems rather incompatible with the message of Jesus.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: WarminIndy

You do realize that you're equating what god did in the OT with abortion, something you think is wrong don't you?

You're basically implying that god is on the same level as a parent who decides to abort their child.

No, I am pointing out that people who practice abortions are placing themselves on equal footing with that same God they denounce.

They say it is wrong in the Bible and yet it is ok for the clinic?

What a double standard.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: windword
I don't agree that the God of the Old Testament existed.

I hear ya'. The things attributed to God in the OT were probably mostly just the people of that time interjecting God into their own wars and politics. Much of the 'God' of the Old Testament seems rather incompatible with the message of Jesus.

And they never ask the Jews the question.

Why ask Christians about the OT when the Christians didn't write it?

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: WarminIndy

You do realize that you're equating what god did in the OT with abortion, something you think is wrong don't you?

You're basically implying that god is on the same level as a parent who decides to abort their child.

No, I am pointing out that people who practice abortions are placing themselves on equal footing with that same God they denounce.

They say it is wrong in the Bible and yet it is ok for the clinic?

What a double standard.

Putting yourself on the same level of god is only a problem if you are Christian. Last I checked, abortion clinics don't worship religion.

a reply to: WarminIndy

You are setting a double standard yourself by saying abortion is bad but what god did was ok. He didn't just kill the unborn children, he Killed the ones who were already born and destroyed everything they had ever known.

An unborn fetus doesn't know anything so it has nothing to lose. How is god justified but not someone who decides to get an abortion?

If your answer is "because it's god" then you are only highlighting what I've been pointing out.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Let's get back to it, if you agree with abortion, then you must agree with what you perceive God is saying. That's something you have to reconcile.

No, I don't have to agree with motives and reasons of the God of the Old Testament. In the Book of Numbers, abortion is prescribed and administer by the temple priests as a remedy for the jealous husband who doesn't know if the child is his or not.

The other cases of the abortion, ordered by your God, in the Bible are the orders to stone and murder women who have "been with men" and have been proven to not be virgins, taking the life of the mother and the child, throwing the proverbial baby out with the bath water".

What I do agree with, and is the opposite what the Bible, and its God teaches, is that a woman is the sole sovereign lord over her own body.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
You're basically implying that god is on the same level as a parent who decides to abort their child.

If God did go around ordering the slaughter of people in the OT, then that would be exactly what He was doing. He's be slaughtering His own children .. an abortion of sorts. That's why I don't believe that the (alleged) God of much the OT is the same God of Jesus in the NT. Much of it doesn't match up.

To be a Christian is to be a follower of Jesus. Jesus said to love God and Neighbor. Jesus said that is the fullness of the law of God. Different Christians interpret scripture differently, but that is the core of His teachings ... NOT the Old Testament.

I have a belief in Jesus Christ, because of his humanity. The Bible, any Bible was not written by Jesus.

a reply to: FlyersFan

And the god of the OT aborted them in a much more brutal way than an abortion clinic could ever think of doing. Not only did he kill the unborn children but also the mother, father, siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparents, pets, cattle, all animals, etc.

Yet some people still can justify it but not abortion. It blows my mind.

originally posted by: rokkuman

Your so called "holy bible" drips with the blood of men, women, children, infants and old people slaughtered by Old Testament warlords.

Yes, humans are capable to do terrible things. The whole human history is full of it.

While I am most aware of the threat posed by radical Islam its most laughable whenever Christians point fingers at islamic violence. Its a complete pot/kettle moment.

Not really!! It´s actually not very nice to equate all the Christians with IS.

If it is purely a "past" thing, then what are those nasty verses from the past doing in your Bibles in this age?

Keep in mind that the Bible is a collection of Books. It´s one big library condensed to 1 Book. So yeah, those verses are part of the Bible. Also i do not see why you want those ripped of. Would you also rip of all the nasty stuff that people have done through the ages and are recorded in history books ?

Peace

AS far as I'm concerned, the majority, if not all of the OT is completely made up. That primarily fall on my belief that God is God. Not the Christian God, or any other version. All are the same. One God, a billion different religions (all man invented) all claiming that the one God is theirs only.

Foolish to think God created everything and then only concerned himself (itself, whatever) with a specific group of humans at the expense of the entire rest of his (or its, or her) creation.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy

Let's get back to it, if you agree with abortion, then you must agree with what you perceive God is saying. That's something you have to reconcile.

No, I don't have to agree with motives and reasons of the God of the Old Testament. In the Book of Numbers, abortion is prescribed and administer by the temple priests as a remedy for the jealous husband who doesn't know if the child is his or not.

The other cases of the abortion, ordered by your God, in the Bible are the orders to stone and murder women who have "been with men" and have been proven to not be virgins, taking the life of the mother and the child, throwing the proverbial baby out with the bath water".

What I do agree with, and is the opposite what the Bible, and its God teaches, is that a woman is the sole sovereign lord over her own body.

Hmm, ok.

You are lord over your own body, not that of the baby, correct?

Or are you saying you are lord over the baby to determine whether it lives or dies?

a reply to: WarminIndy

Until the baby is born, that baby is part of the mother's body. I think abortion should have a cut off date or whatever, but to outlaw it completely isn't the right way to go in my opinion. There are situations that an abortion is a good thing for the baby.

originally posted by: PsychoEmperor
Where is the world wide Christian Terrorist Group Crusading across the planet in the Name of God and the Holy Bible?

"World Wide" is a bit of an exaggeration, no?

That being said, presumably you've not heard of the growing ranks of the violent Christian Anti-Balaka group in Africa?

Report Details Atrocities in Central African Republic

The results show a campaign of ethnic cleansing of Muslim civilians in the Central African Republic that has wiped out the northwest towns of Bouali, Boyali, Bossembele, Bossemptele and Baoro. International troops failed to deploy to these towns, leaving civilian communities without protection, the report said.

The most lethal attack documented by Amnesty International took place in Bossemptele, where at least 100 Muslims, including women and the elderly, were killed.

I guess because it's Africa, no one cares to notice.



They're classified as an ethnic cleansing terrorist group by Interpol. Same classification as ISIS.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: FlyersFan

And the god of the OT aborted them in a much more brutal way than an abortion clinic could ever think of doing. Not only did he kill the unborn children but also the mother, father, siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparents, pets, cattle, all animals, etc.

Yet some people still can justify it but not abortion. It blows my mind.

Really?

So it isn't brutal to hack them up? So it isn't brutal to burn them with Saline?

Yes, just because it is sterile that makes it ok...tell that to Dr. Mengele, because he did his brutality in the confines of a sterile environment also.

Sterile or not, the ONLY thing Roe vs. Wade did was stop back alley abortions.

And show me where I justified it, please?

But here's the kicker, Planned Parenthood that was created by Margaret Sanger, was enacted as GENOCIDE against races, that's historically correct. All you have to do is read about Margaret Sanger and what she wrote.

Are you ok with genocide in the form of a sterile procedure?

AND, because many abortions are paid for by the STATE through Medicare and Medicaid, then the STATE is sponsoring genocide. AND the State also monitors and keeps track of how many abortions are performed...

The CDC abortion surveillance

And there are deaths that result from abortions, that the STATE asks must be reported. The reality of it though, it is genocidal from its onset as public policy in the US and the STATE has funded that genocide.

Of course you're not going to hear about what's going on in Africa, it goes against the narrative that those in power are trying to create.

Islam vs. Christianity/Mid East vs. America

Nevermind .. my bad ... I thought I was being spoken to.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Quit trying to justify what god did, if you disagree with abortion then you MUST disagree with what god did. What god did was much more brutal. He had children attacked by a bear and mauled to death, that's even more brutal than cutting up an unborn, unconscious body.