Christians, are violent old testament verses relevant to your beliefs today?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy

What sin does a baby commit for it to get the death sentence of abortion?

Don't worry, the Old Testament God orders plenty of abortions too!

Yeah some of them take place after the baby is born.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

originally posted by: WarminIndy

What sin does a baby commit for it to get the death sentence of abortion?

Why should a baby be punished for the crime of rape or incest?

Justification now in your corner, please hit the ball back.

Well flip that argument to god in the OT when he killed plenty of newborns and pregnant women. Why would a baby have to pay for the sins of its parents in the context of the Amalekites and other genocides in the name of Yahweh? What did those babies do to deserve to die.

Maybe getting an abortion is to save that baby from a miserable life, I see that argument used when the OT is brought up, the babies were "saved" somehow.

Nope, WHAT sin did the baby commit to deserve the death sentence of abortion?

You can't and don't know that a baby "might" be saved from a miserable life, you aren't a fortune teller. But that isn't why women get abortions and you know it.

We are talking about the deaths of infants and since infanticide is ancient, in ALL cultures, then it stands to reason we should question why the OP and society would make an issue about the OT only.

Current modern abortions are very violent toward the baby, they are cut up, hacked up, suctioned out...or they are burned by saline. Would you not say that is violence toward the baby?

Can't believe people still read these sci-fi novels.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Nope, WHAT sin did the baby commit to deserve the death sentence of abortion?

The same sin that everyone that deserves death committed, in God's eyes. Again, the God of the Old Testament ordered abortions.

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: ATF1886
Just like any father punishing his children he stated the wages of sin is death how much more clear do you want it???

So what was the sin of the infants and babies that were slaughtered? Oh wait let me guess they inherited the sin from eating the fruit? give me a break.

Like I said in the op i expected that christians are going to justify it. Christians have no qualms with violence as long its their side doing it. The ultimate hypocrisy.

What sin does a baby commit for it to get the death sentence of abortion?

Why should a baby be punished for the crime of rape or incest?

Justification now in your corner, please hit the ball back.

Abortion is not the same as killing babies and children.

hey wait weren't you the one pointing fingers at Islam because little girls were burned in that other thread??? and you are here now justifying the killings of children in the bible?

my gosh what a hypocrite.

I am here saying that ALL murder of innocent children is wrong, even abortions. But hey, if you believe it is ok to hack them up in utero, go ahead and be a hypocrite.

But why is abortion ok, when it is a "woman's choice"? Isn't that also sacrificing the baby's future for her own?

To err is human my friend to err is human i dont have all the answers to the past i live in the present i guess one day we will have a chance to ask...a reply to: rokkuman

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

originally posted by: WarminIndy

What sin does a baby commit for it to get the death sentence of abortion?

Why should a baby be punished for the crime of rape or incest?

Justification now in your corner, please hit the ball back.

Well flip that argument to god in the OT when he killed plenty of newborns and pregnant women. Why would a baby have to pay for the sins of its parents in the context of the Amalekites and other genocides in the name of Yahweh? What did those babies do to deserve to die.

Maybe getting an abortion is to save that baby from a miserable life, I see that argument used when the OT is brought up, the babies were "saved" somehow.

Nope, WHAT sin did the baby commit to deserve the death sentence of abortion?

You can't and don't know that a baby "might" be saved from a miserable life, you aren't a fortune teller. But that isn't why women get abortions and you know it.

We are talking about the deaths of infants and since infanticide is ancient, in ALL cultures, then it stands to reason we should question why the OP and society would make an issue about the OT only.

Current modern abortions are very violent toward the baby, they are cut up, hacked up, suctioned out...or they are burned by saline. Would you not say that is violence toward the baby?

In that case you can't really have a problem with abortion because after all your "holy" book has God ordering the slaughter of babies.

Maybe modern day abortions is just a continuation of the old testament way of dealing with babies?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy

Nope, WHAT sin did the baby commit to deserve the death sentence of abortion?

The same sin that everyone that deserves death committed, in God's eyes. Again, the God of the Old Testament ordered abortions.

So you agree with God that you are permitted to have an abortion? So if God said it was ok, then wouldn't you be agreeing with God?

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

originally posted by: WarminIndy

What sin does a baby commit for it to get the death sentence of abortion?

Why should a baby be punished for the crime of rape or incest?

Justification now in your corner, please hit the ball back.

Well flip that argument to god in the OT when he killed plenty of newborns and pregnant women. Why would a baby have to pay for the sins of its parents in the context of the Amalekites and other genocides in the name of Yahweh? What did those babies do to deserve to die.

Maybe getting an abortion is to save that baby from a miserable life, I see that argument used when the OT is brought up, the babies were "saved" somehow.

Nope, WHAT sin did the baby commit to deserve the death sentence of abortion?

You can't and don't know that a baby "might" be saved from a miserable life, you aren't a fortune teller. But that isn't why women get abortions and you know it.

We are talking about the deaths of infants and since infanticide is ancient, in ALL cultures, then it stands to reason we should question why the OP and society would make an issue about the OT only.

Current modern abortions are very violent toward the baby, they are cut up, hacked up, suctioned out...or they are burned by saline. Would you not say that is violence toward the baby?

In that case you can't really have a problem with abortion because after all your "holy" book is okay with it.

Then you also agree with God that it is ok to sacrifice babies for the comforts of the mothers' choices?

Here's what I heard lately. For example, you saw the Old Testament has commands like "when you kill you enemy, make sure you kill their children, too." It may seem cruel to us today. But that was the culture of those times. In fact, today, there is research which says habits and attitudes may be hereditary. For example, studies on adopted children showed that even if they were raised in an environment of kindness and good values, some adopted children still turn to alcoholism or even violent behavior. The finding was that the behavior could be traced to the biological parents. Even if you teach them to be nice, counteracting tendencies will still surface.

This is the basis of Old Testament commands. Because bad behavior will be passed from generation to generation, better wipe out the line to make sure that the bad behavior stops getting passed. Sort of like, wipe out the line to prevent a gene for mental illness or something to get passed around. Of course, that doesn't apply anymore. Nobody kills anyone anymore, because that would already be sin. But the premise of genetically-passed behavior is still something to consider when handling people today. When addressing their bad behavior, what will you do?

a reply to: WarminIndy

Your god ordered the killing of innocent children. If all killing of children is bad then wouldn't that mean god's killings were bad too?

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy

Nope, WHAT sin did the baby commit to deserve the death sentence of abortion?

The same sin that everyone that deserves death committed, in God's eyes. Again, the God of the Old Testament ordered abortions.

So you agree with God that you are permitted to have an abortion? So if God said it was ok, then wouldn't you be agreeing with God?

And by extension that would imply that you would be in agreement with abortionists.

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

originally posted by: WarminIndy

What sin does a baby commit for it to get the death sentence of abortion?

Why should a baby be punished for the crime of rape or incest?

Justification now in your corner, please hit the ball back.

Well flip that argument to god in the OT when he killed plenty of newborns and pregnant women. Why would a baby have to pay for the sins of its parents in the context of the Amalekites and other genocides in the name of Yahweh? What did those babies do to deserve to die.

Maybe getting an abortion is to save that baby from a miserable life, I see that argument used when the OT is brought up, the babies were "saved" somehow.

Nope, WHAT sin did the baby commit to deserve the death sentence of abortion?

You can't and don't know that a baby "might" be saved from a miserable life, you aren't a fortune teller. But that isn't why women get abortions and you know it.

We are talking about the deaths of infants and since infanticide is ancient, in ALL cultures, then it stands to reason we should question why the OP and society would make an issue about the OT only.

Current modern abortions are very violent toward the baby, they are cut up, hacked up, suctioned out...or they are burned by saline. Would you not say that is violence toward the baby?

In that case you can't really have a problem with abortion because after all your "holy" book is okay with it.

Then you also agree with God that it is ok to sacrifice babies for the comforts of the mothers' choices?

You missed one detail:
in the Bible the mother was killed along with her baby, and her husband and her parents.

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy

Nope, WHAT sin did the baby commit to deserve the death sentence of abortion?

The same sin that everyone that deserves death committed, in God's eyes. Again, the God of the Old Testament ordered abortions.

So you agree with God that you are permitted to have an abortion? So if God said it was ok, then wouldn't you be agreeing with God?

And by extension that would imply that you would be in agreement with abortionists.

Yes or no, do you agree with God or not that abortions are ok?

If abortions are ok, then apparently you have no disagreement with the OT.

So what's the problem?

a reply to: rokkuman
Christ shed his blood in a new covenant with mankind. He also set the political world on its ear... Have you read the Sermon on the mount? The Bible is a history book as well as a religious one. A lot of the atrocities that people refer to in the O.T. take place in war.

a reply to: WarminIndy

I don't agree that the God of the Old Testament existed. But, I do agree that abortions are prescribed in the Bible by its God.

Abortion tradition is as old as dirt. It was practiced in biblical times, in ancient Egypt, in ancient China, Greece and every other civilization on the planet. its history goes to show that abortion is a natural inalienable right.

The real questions are; "Do you agree with your God on the matter of abortion?" "Do you agree with your God in the matter of the slaughter of tens of thousands of his enemies?"

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

originally posted by: WarminIndy

What sin does a baby commit for it to get the death sentence of abortion?

Why should a baby be punished for the crime of rape or incest?

Justification now in your corner, please hit the ball back.

Well flip that argument to god in the OT when he killed plenty of newborns and pregnant women. Why would a baby have to pay for the sins of its parents in the context of the Amalekites and other genocides in the name of Yahweh? What did those babies do to deserve to die.

Maybe getting an abortion is to save that baby from a miserable life, I see that argument used when the OT is brought up, the babies were "saved" somehow.

Nope, WHAT sin did the baby commit to deserve the death sentence of abortion?

You can't and don't know that a baby "might" be saved from a miserable life, you aren't a fortune teller. But that isn't why women get abortions and you know it.

We are talking about the deaths of infants and since infanticide is ancient, in ALL cultures, then it stands to reason we should question why the OP and society would make an issue about the OT only.

Current modern abortions are very violent toward the baby, they are cut up, hacked up, suctioned out...or they are burned by saline. Would you not say that is violence toward the baby?

In that case you can't really have a problem with abortion because after all your "holy" book is okay with it.

Then you also agree with God that it is ok to sacrifice babies for the comforts of the mothers' choices?

You missed one detail:
in the Bible the mother was killed along with her baby, and her husband and her parents.

OH, yes, it DOES kill women, boyfriends, parents...because GENETICALLY that infant WAS comprised of genetic material and part of all those people. So all those people WERE killed in that infant.

As you have trouble seeing pre-infants as humans, they still are genetically human, no matter how you look at it. And yes, it DOES mentally, psychologically and spiritually kill everyone who has that genetic connection.

Kill means more than just the body.

Not only was that infant killed of its life, but its future as well and all future good relationships that might have come or even bad relationships, but apparently that is ok, to sacrifice the baby now for present comfort.

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: rokkuman

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy

Nope, WHAT sin did the baby commit to deserve the death sentence of abortion?

The same sin that everyone that deserves death committed, in God's eyes. Again, the God of the Old Testament ordered abortions.

So you agree with God that you are permitted to have an abortion? So if God said it was ok, then wouldn't you be agreeing with God?

And by extension that would imply that you would be in agreement with abortionists.

Yes or no, do you agree with God or not that abortions are ok?

If abortions are ok, then apparently you have no disagreement with the OT.

So what's the problem?

First off, I do not regard the bible so don't bother asking me questions about God.

Secondly if baby slaughter in the OT is okay, then apparently you have no disagreement with abortionists, which I guess is a good thing.

Third, what about killing old people and children and women in the bible? Biblical violence also includes that.
Or did you think you could derail this discussion by making it an argument about abortion?

a reply to: WarminIndy

Not only was that infant killed of its life, but its future as well and all future good relationships that might have come or even bad relationships, but apparently that is ok, to sacrifice the baby now for present comfort.

Imagine what the present might look like if all of "God's" enemies hadn't been murdered in the Old Testament and the Christian Church hadn't murdered its enemies and those indigenous heathens that they were unable to convert, by the millions! All those future good relationships, possible inventions and breakthroughs, poetry and art that might have been!

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: WarminIndy

I don't agree that the God of the Old Testament existed. But, I do agree that abortions are prescribed in the Bible by its God.

Abortion tradition is as old as dirt. It was practiced in biblical times, in ancient Egypt, in ancient China, Greece and every other civilization on the planet. its history goes to show that abortion is a natural inalienable right.

The real questions are; "Do you agree with your God on the matter of abortion?" "Do you agree with your God in the matter of the slaughter of tens of thousands of his enemies?"

I know abortion is very old and in every culture.

But is it ok to sacrifice babies because the practice is ancient?

Let's get back to it, if you agree with abortion, then you must agree with what you perceive God is saying. That's something you have to reconcile.

Now, as a Christian, you are asking me about God in ancient culture, when neither you nor I lived in that ancient culture and neither you nor I understand the historical context as neither of us were there.

That is something you have to ask the rabbis as they are the ones who gave us the OT God.

But since abortion is ancient, then it must be ok for Zeus to eat his own children. That's a good god who isn't in the OT, right?

Violence was part of the ancient world, we can't get around that. But to say this particular God is evil above the rest that were more extremely violent, would you then think perhaps it is only THIS God you have a problem with?

Why only THIS God to have problems with?

The world was filled with violent gods, but why allow the same violence today if you are against it?