Christianities Strange Alliance

a reply to: Grimpachi

I think the alliance between the US and Israel has more political roots than it does strictly religious ones. Certainly if you look at Europe which purports to be rooted in Western Civilization and thus could be said to have Christian roots as well, there is no love lost there for Israel.

You're having to go back to the days of WWII and the Cold War proxy jockeying to get an idea for that one.

I think there is also something to be said for the idea in the US of both our tradition of having come from lots of religious groups who came here fleeing persecution from the European religious power at the time. So in that there is likely a feeling of shared kinship to an extent as the Jews also faced religious persecution and the idea of religious freedom helped to open the doors to Jewish settlers like it did to many other religio-ethnic groups.

THat and most Americans perceive the Jewish state as modern, prosperous one surrounded by medieval tyrannies that would like nothing better than to conquer and slaughter them down to the last man, woman, and child. It makes Israel a perpetual underdog, and we Americans tend to love our underdogs.

Not to mention, thanks to the social justice conditioning we are taught here when we learn all about slavery, racism, Jim Crow, etc. it is hard NOT to turn around and learn about the Holocaust and feel similar sympathy for its victims. If we heard more in the media about the Roma, you might hear more sympathy for them from people, but the education complex tends to simplify the Holocaust down to Jews in ovens.

Then yes, there is an element of our shared religious roots for those of us with faith.

a reply to: Cuervo

Funny as a Christian I know ,there IS only one God and NO we don't need Israel . The US is obligated legally to support them. as WE were the 1st to recognize them.

a reply to: Grimpachi

But see. I think it is solely the media's fault. Terrorism didn't start in 2001. It's been going on since like the 70's, but back then nobody thought twice about the "evil Muslims". They were just isolated incidents that most people forgot about shortly afterwards. Then 9/11 happened and the media's focus switched thanks to the war on terror. Since then we've been inundated with anti-Muslim propaganda for about a decade. Naturally it will breed quite a bit of xenophobia.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

But see. I think it is solely the media's fault. Terrorism didn't start in 2001. It's been going on since like the 70's,

It's been going on since the 7th century. Don't forget that the pope authorized the Crusades because he was fed up with 400 years of Muslim attacks and the murdering of people making pilgrimages to the holy land.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

I was more referring to modern times. Yes, terrorism has been going on in some form or another since forever, but the terrorism that I speak of is the modern surge of Muslim terrorism that we've been experiencing.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: Grimpachi

That is easy.

Jews and Christian worship the same god, Elohim, YHWH.


Christians understand that the Jews did not accept Jesus as of yet and will not until the End Times.

Muslims do not worship the same god as Jews and Christians. There is no Jesus / Yahshua in Islam. There is Isa. Anyone with half a brain can clearly see Isa and Yahshua are definitely not the same person.


“Allah” being worshipped as a deity can be found in the Epic of Atrahasis chiseled on several tablets dating to around 1700 BC and was not found in Arabian records, but in Babylonian, this deity was described nearly four millennia ago to be a god of “violence and revolution”.

You are incorrect. All three religions worship the God of Abraham.

a reply to: damwel

You are incorrect. All three religions worship the God of Abraham.

Not true whatsoever. Its says 7 times in the Tanach that God cannot lie. In the Qur'an it says allah himself is "the greatest deceiver". Their core characters are claimed to be polar opposites.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: NOTurTypical

I was more referring to modern times. Yes, terrorism has been going on in some form or another since forever, but the terrorism that I speak of is the modern surge of Muslim terrorism that we've been experiencing.

I can't argue that there has been a surge as of recently.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

No they are most certainly the same god. All three religions originated from the same god. The reason that the Christian god seems dissimilar is because Christianity also stole much of its core tenants from Zoroastrianism (the whole good vs. evil duality paradigm up to and including the final battle between good and evil). But all three religions trace back to the story of Abraham, therefore all three have the same god.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

If they are the same god then how about we go to Mecca with a sign that says "YHWH and allah are the same god".

How long do you think we will survive with out heads attached?

They aren't the same god, allah is the Babylonian moon god. Muhammad picked the most powerful idol god at Mecca among 300 idols and said "this is the one, this is allah."

God calls out the false moon god in Isaiah, in the verse that gets translated as "Lucifer" in English the Hebrew says "Hylel bin'Sachar", which doesn't mean "Lucifer", it means this in Hebrew:

"Crescent moon and star"

originally posted by: NOTurTypical
a reply to: Krazysh0t

If they are the same god then how about we go to Mecca with a sign that says "YHWH and allah are the same god".

How long do you think we will survive with out heads attached?

What would this prove other than that people who don't know the true history of their religions exist and are violent?

They aren't the same god, allah is the Babylonian moon god. Muhammad picked the most powerful idol god at Mecca among 300 idols and said "this is the one, this is allah."

God calls out the false moon god in Isaiah, in the verse that gets translated as "Lucifer" in English the Hebrew says "Hylel bin'Sachar", which doesn't mean "Lucifer", it means this in Hebrew:

"Crescent moon and star"

Yes, again Muslim offshot from Judaism with the sons of Abraham. Up until that point they were the same religion. Therefore same god.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

What would this prove other than that people who don't know the true history of their religions exist and are violent?

Well, it seems to me that you didn't know allah is nothing but the Babylonian moon god. There was no such thing as Judaism in the time of Abraham, the law was given to Moses.

Yes, again Muslim offshot from Judaism with the sons of Abraham. Up until that point they were the same religion. Therefore same god.

No, Judaism began with Moses during the Exodus. Centuries after Abraham.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Fine, but that doesn't change the fact that all THREE religions celebrate the same story about a singular god telling some schmuck to kill his only son. Nor does it change the fact that all three religions base their descendency off of this same idiot.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Fine, but that doesn't change the fact that all THREE religions celebrate the same story about a singular god telling some schmuck to kill his only son. Nor does it change the fact that all three religions base their descendency off of this same idiot.

And yet all Islam still worships the Babylonian moon god. All Muhammad did was pick the strongest idol out of 300 at Mecca and said "this is allah". Just because Muhammad decided to call the moon god allah and craft a religion based on that in the 7th century doesn't mean both worship the "same god". YHWH and allah have polar opposite attributes.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

Well it is tough to say which attributes YHWH has and doesn't have since the YHWH of the Old Testament is SO different than the YHWH of the New Testament that they might as well be different gods. God goes from being a petty, vengeful, angry, and jealous god to an all loving and forgiving one. So it is no surprise that Islam would ascribe different attributes to their version of the same god. Christians already can't get their god's attributes consistent.

a reply to: Grimpachi

I ran across this. Is it wrong? Isn't the way to find acceptance through first bonding about the things you have in common, rather than focusing on and fighting about the differences?

originally posted by: NOTurTypical

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: NOTurTypical

Fine, but that doesn't change the fact that all THREE religions celebrate the same story about a singular god telling some schmuck to kill his only son. Nor does it change the fact that all three religions base their descendency off of this same idiot.

And yet all Islam still worships the Babylonian moon god. All Muhammad did was pick the strongest idol out of 300 at Mecca and said "this is allah". Just because Muhammad decided to call the moon god allah and craft a religion based on that in the 7th century doesn't mean both worship the "same god". YHWH and allah have polar opposite attributes.

Allah means God in Arabic. Even Christians who speak Arabic say Allah and the Bible in Arabic says Allah (Arabic word) instead of God (English word).

a reply to: Grimpachi

Text Both Islam and Christianity agree Jesus was divine.

That is where most people get stuck. Islam gives lip service to Christianity but Christianity does not give lip service to Islam. Islam wants equality with Christianity and recognition from the God of Abram but never got that recognition. it's the same old quarrel from its inception of Ishmael and Isaac. Both wanted the inheritance of Abram and the fight began from that time to this very day.

Islam also refuses to acknowledge that Jesus is the begotten of God and existed in the celestial realm as the very image of the Spirit God. Islam will not acknowledge that the begotten image of God was incarnated in the flesh known as Jesus and returned to His former entity known as the Word. This would place Jesus as the Son of God and not merely a prophet such as Muhammad. So as you can see this could never be reconciled by either party.

Ironically its almost the same with Christianity and Rabbinic Judaism. So the fight goes on and on.

a reply to: Seede

I have pretty much left this thread alone however I read each reply.

There have many good points yours included, but I am afraid I do not have solid answers to my questions. There have been many answers and they probably all hold part of the truth which I ponder. It seems there is not a set answer as to why things are as they are in fact it seems a portion of it is because that is how we have been told to believe.


It is a family feud the reasons it started have almost been forgotten but that doesn't stop the feud.

a reply to: randyvs

Need I say more?

No you dont need to say more, however you could try to educate yourself. You Christians serve Jehova/Baal

12tribes.blog-pad.com...

What the Hebrew Lexicon Reveals

What does the Lexicon reveal about the names Jehovah and Yahweh? Surprisingly, it reveals that this god is NOT who the ancient Israelites looked to for guidance, but is actually the god of the Phoenicians. And his name is: Ba’al. That’s right: Ba’al. Let’s take look at some proof:

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In the Hebrew Lexicon, at reference number 1180, you will see that Jehovah is Ba’al. The Lexicon reveals that Strong’s number 1180 comes from Strong’s number 1167. But what will you find at Strong’s 1167? The Lexicon, again, reveals that the name Jehovah is a symbolical name for Ba’al. If you follow that reference by clicking on the reference link 1167, you will arrive here: Jehovah is another name of Ba’al. And curiously, if you read the definition at reference 1167, it tells you that reference number 1168 is THE SAME as reference number 1167. And what is the definition for reference number 1168: Ba’al bah’-al the same as 1167; Ba’al, a Phoenician deity. So in fact, Jehovah IS Ba’al, a Phoenician diety, not the Sovereign of Yacob. (We should note, however, that ancient Israel did leave the Sovereign Creator and his Laws to worship the deity known as Ba’al, and if you have read the history of ancient Israel, then you know they experienced some rather bitter consequences for spiritual apostasy; we will discuss that in another part.)