'Christianophobia,' Anti-Christian Hostility Infects Powerful Elite Subculture

a reply to: lonesomerimbaud

Thank you, I too am a old hippy, with alternative Christian views, I don't fit any mold.

I just feel I must speak out for the good people, the Christians, the majority are not bad.

I struggled with starting this topic, I didn't want to, I knew the responses I would get, I have read them a hundred times on ATS.

Everyone have a good day, I feel sick.

People are being crucified in foreign countries, should I remain silent?

“In the End we will remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends.”

a reply to: Stormdancer777
Just out of curiousity, Storm. How do you and other women see the bitterness and hatred of the "early church fathers" for women? I know the church as a whole, venerates these men, but I've never understood why, even when I was a xtian. Tertullian and others showed such a bitter disgust for women, it should be appalling and intolerable for any xtian.

Tertullian:

Woman is a temple built over a sewer.

In pain shall you bring forth children, woman, and you shall turn to your husband and he shall rule over you. And do you not know that you are Eve? God’s sentence hangs still over all your sex and His punishment weighs down upon you. You are the devil’s gateway; you are she who first violated the forbidden tree and broke the law of God. It was you who coaxed your way around him whom the devil had not the force to attack. With what ease you shattered that image of God: Man! Because of the death you merited, even the Son of God had to die… Woman, you are the gate to hell.

Link

To me, it speaks volumes that many xtians revere a group of men who were so utterly disgusted with the feminine of their species. I know it's slightly off-topic, but you quoted Tertullian, and it came to mind.

I'm done.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: lonesomerimbaud

Thank you, I too am a old hippy, with alternative Christian views, I don't fit any mold.

I just feel I must speak out for the good people, the Christians, the majority are not bad.

I struggled with starting this topic, I didn't want to, I knew the responses I would get, I have read them a hundred times on ATS.

Everyone have a good day, I feel sick.

People are being crucified in foreign countries, should I remain silent?

“In the End we will remember not the words of our enemies but the silence of our friends.”

maybe christianophobia is just a really fancy word for being afraid of fear-mongering. most of the people who are being "persecuted" are standing up and being a raging phallus and then insisting they speak on behalf of TRUE christians everywhere.

if you want to stop being persecuted, stand up and tell the dumbasses to shut up because they dont speak for you or your god.

a reply to: Stormdancer777

Uh, i'm special i want to be prosecuted... Crucify me! Stone me! Let me be eaten by lions in an arena and let all of them watch, because not only am i so full of myself i also am an exhibiotonist and a masochist and want to be hated, because otherwise i wouldn't feel special anymore.
Seriously, dude, i take it you're an american? You are aware that this new-born-christian-types are indeeed a danger to democracy and freedom rights for all the others and a very influential on the rise sect? Prosecute them, i don't care who does nothing but trying to convince everybody of their weird half-arsed beliefs for nothing but the sake of power and brain-washes the little ones from a very young age on, can't count on my pity.
You do it to yourself, you do and that's what really hurts...
With love and best wishes,
a half-catholic and Papa Francesco fan

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: kaylaluv

It would be nice if that was ALL Christianity was about, but sadly its not. Make it WAY easier to read the bible though.

I love the Jeffersonian Bible myself. Thomas Jefferson said that most of the Bible was complete trash, except for a few of Jesus' teachings. I agree with him.

a reply to: kaylaluv

I've said that a few times on ATS myself. Usually end up getting called a Christian persecutor for it though.

Who isn't persecuted these days? Christians aren't somehow unique in being persecuted.

What do we call the American, mostly Christian, military over in the middle east bombing civilians in the search of Islamic terrorists? If that isn't persecution then I don't know what is.

I really wish Christians would stop claiming they're being persecuted when they have it better than most other people in other parts of the world.

Yeah, you're really being "persecuted" while you sit at home watching your big screen tv eating steak and mashed potatoes and drinking a glass of wine.

People act like Christian persecution doesn't happen, when that's just ignorance. Sometimes willfully so. Most of the people that say that, have no idea what it means to be Christian, and having to deal with everyone who isn't. Purportedly, Christians as a whole, are the worst group of people you could ever want to meet. Yet no one seems to have any real issues to raise regarding that 'fact.' As a matter of fact, most Christians are good-natured peoples, most of the best charities are Christian, and if there wasn't the whole 'hate the sin, not the sinner' thing, most people wouldn't have a problem with it. But personal responsibility seems to be lacking for most of these, as they don't want to have to answer for what they feel is a lifestyle choice, and should have no bearing on their eternal rewards. However, they just don't like the fact that God makes the rules, and they don't. That's too bad. They can keep screaming that there is no God, and that all His peoples are (insert wanna-be witty comment here). Basically it all comes down to them not liking the rules, like ill-bred children, they think they can do what they want, and there should be no consequences. That's not the way it is, regardless of how loud they scream. In the end, all they will hear is screaming, and they'll know it was no one's fault but their own.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
If only all Christians would truly follow the teachings of Jesus (love your neighbor, don't judge, help those who need help, etc.). The problem is, so many of them don't. Those who do, have my total support.

You have a point.

Problem is, Christianity acknowledges that everyone has problems and no one is perfect.
So the culture of authentic Christianity welcomes the people with deep seated problems in order to help them overcome those problems and become healthy again in their souls.

Jesus himself said that he came into the world to help the "sick",
that people who think they have no issues and are perfect the way they are
don't need Him
it is those who are "soul sick" do need Jesus.

After an argument with a relative over something petty (that had nothing to do with religion at all), they said to me in the heat of the moment after I suggested we forgive each other and forget the incident:
You need Jesus because you aren't perfect and need forgiveness, that's why you go to church all the time.
I don't need to be forgiven for anything, so I don't need to go to church or pray.
He hit the nail on the head perfectly, I am not perfect, I sometimes lose my temper and sometimes I say thoughtless and inconsiderate things, and I do need regular reminders that I can be a better person, that is at the core of Christianity.

So authentic Christianity accepts those who have issues,
have problems, have needs
and so do not behave like Jesus at all times.

Authentic Christianity acknowledges that everyone could be better,
everyone could be more kind,
everyone could be more thoughtful of other,
everyone could be more charitable;
but that most Christians fall short in all of these areas.

A true Christian strives to be more kind, more loving, more thoughtful, more accepting, more charitable;
strives is the key word
as only Jesus can live like Jesus
authentic Christians know that we can only strive,

but never achieve perfection because we are,

after all,

only human beings with human emotions and human foibles.

The core values of Christianity acknowledge

that EVERYONE has issues, problems, shortcomings

and the whole point is that in following Jesus

Christians TRY to be more like Jesus

but have to work at it and WILL fail from time to time

and WHEN (not if) Christians fail, Jesus will be there to forgive

and help restore them to be loving, kind, generous, etc.



If you think Christian persecution around the world is not real, you are wrong.
There is a man in my church who was a devout Muslim and after reading the Bible on his own, became a Christian.
When he went back to his home country and his relative found out, they put him in a mental hospital and would not let him out. After weeks of confinement, he threatened to sue the hospital for holding him against his will simply because of his religion. As soon as he got out, he fled back to the US. His wife divorced him and stayed in their country of origin with his child all because he became a Christian. This all happened within the past 18 months.

a reply to: Chronogoblin

What about all the other non-Christian cultures who are persecuted every day?

I don't have any problem acknowledging Christians are persecuted on some level. What I have a problem with is Christians who claim they're being persecuted while they're better off than most other people. Don't act like you're the only one who is persecuted or that Christians don't persecute others themselves (Not directed at you).

originally posted by: Chronogoblin
People act like Christian persecution doesn't happen, when that's just ignorance. Sometimes willfully so. Most of the people that say that, have no idea what it means to be Christian, and having to deal with everyone who isn't.

Incorrect. Many of the people saying that are ex-Christians and have a very GOOD idea what it is like to be Christian. And it certainly doesn't happen in the Western world to any measurable extent. Most of the Christian persecution in the west is just Christians mad that others don't like Christian values imposed on them all the time (which is actually persecution coming FROM Christians).

Purportedly, Christians as a whole, are the worst group of people you could ever want to meet. Yet no one seems to have any real issues to raise regarding that 'fact.' As a matter of fact, most Christians are good-natured peoples, most of the best charities are Christian, and if there wasn't the whole 'hate the sin, not the sinner' thing, most people wouldn't have a problem with it.

Most people wouldn't have a problem with Christianity if Christians didn't put so much effort into trying to convert everyone to their way of life like you are trying to do below.

But personal responsibility seems to be lacking for most of these, as they don't want to have to answer for what they feel is a lifestyle choice, and should have no bearing on their eternal rewards. However, they just don't like the fact that God makes the rules, and they don't. That's too bad. They can keep screaming that there is no God, and that all His peoples are (insert wanna-be witty comment here). Basically it all comes down to them not liking the rules, like ill-bred children, they think they can do what they want, and there should be no consequences. That's not the way it is, regardless of how loud they scream. In the end, all they will hear is screaming, and they'll know it was no one's fault but their own.

There is no Christian god and his rules are mostly stupid. There certainly aren't any consequences for violating them seeing as how everyone, including Christians violate them all the time. If this upsets your petty god, then he can come and smite me himself. I don't need your holier than thou attitude of condemnation though.

a reply to: grandmakdw

So the culture of authentic Christianity welcomes the people with deep seated problems in order to help them overcome those problems and become healthy again in their souls.

and those who refuse to become "healthy" are regarded as vermin and swine.

"Kill them. For the Lord knows those that are His own."

if you think this rationale is any less relevant today, think again. fear makes people irrational, fear makes people dependent. fear makes people do crazy stuff if they think it will improve things. and playing on peoples' fears like a violin string makes them susceptible in much the same way that addicts are susceptible to dopamine triggers. they can become suggestible, they can become pliable, and they can become dangerous. not all, but some. the trickster will lead the lost in a battle they dont understand for a prize they dont deserve because...well, faith.

the movie "the book of eli" explains it pretty well.

Wait........

I see a lot of justification here for hating christians........

But its wrong to dislike Muslims.........even tho they are the ones cutting off heads, blowing themselves up, killing women and children , not allowing women to drive or vote, and killing people for a cartoon?

You talk about how christians dont like gays, but gay marriage is is allowed in much of the churches now , and ISLAM is killing gays wholesale.....wheres your outrage?

Its manufactured BS against christians, because if there was a real concern you would be up in arms about what those extremist are doing, But i dont see the condemnation for their religion, like you condemn ALL christians......

Oh but you say "Dont lump them all into one group under Islam!"

Yet I see a whole bunch of you doing the same thing to Christians and justifying your illogical , cognitively dissonant attitude....

Stop being politically correct and start being honest.........the threat isnt coming from Christians.......

yes there are hypocrites, yes there are a-holes........

But there is only ONE religion on the planet right now thats having a REAL issue with its followers......

STOP ignoring it and start addressing it.......stop making excuses and stop the projection on to Christians and others....

Islam needs reformation out of these extremist elements period, full stop.....

THATS the religion you should have an issue with, you know , the one causing real harm

Christianity thrives under persecution.

LoL the persecution of others maybe...

It's seems to fall apart when the persecution is reversed.




I have nothing against Christianity except in a disagreeable sense...


& of course things like the above quote which paint a picture of a World that never existed.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: grandmakdw

So the culture of authentic Christianity welcomes the people with deep seated problems in order to help them overcome those problems and become healthy again in their souls.

and those who refuse to become "healthy" are regarded as vermin and swine.

"Kill them. For the Lord knows those that are His own."

if you think this rationale is any less relevant today, think again.

No, you are wrong.

Those who reject Christianity are to be loved, to be treated as one would treat a loved family member.

That is how I see my Christian faith.

Reject no one, be kind to everyone.
Live and let live. It is not up to me to judge, it is up to me to love others.

By unhealthy, I meant those who are hateful, judgmental, selfish,
are doing things that cause themselves pain and anguish
are doing things that will ultimately lead to pain and misery (i.e. alcoholism).
You misinterpreted what I meant by healthy, but that is to be expected because
it really could mean a lot of things.

I do admit that in ATS I have judged, for example, I ranted on in a lot of posts about how
Clinton and Prince Andrew have been excused by the media for going to
Pedophile/Sex Slave island. I think when someone does something egregious
and hurtful to others that there needs to be justice.
I get angry at injustice
and I get angry when people lie
or hurt others for their own gain
or tell people to live as they tell them to, but themselves live another way.
So I admit, that as a Christian there are times when I judge people for
hurting others. Guess that is one sin that will always haunt me, especially
here on ATS.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
Wait........

I see a lot of justification here for hating christians........

But its wrong to dislike Muslims.........even tho they are the ones cutting off heads, blowing themselves up, killing women and children , not allowing women to drive or vote, and killing people for a cartoon?

You talk about how christians dont like gays, but gay marriage is is allowed in much of the churches now , and ISLAM is killing gays wholesale.....wheres your outrage?

Its manufactured BS against christians, because if there was a real concern you would be up in arms about what those extremist are doing, But i dont see the condemnation for their religion, like you condemn ALL christians......

Oh but you say "Dont lump them all into one group under Islam!"

Yet I see a whole bunch of you doing the same thing to Christians and justifying your illogical , cognitively dissonant attitude....

Stop being politically correct and start being honest.........the threat isnt coming from Christians.......

yes there are hypocrites, yes there are a-holes........

But there is only ONE religion on the planet right now thats having a REAL issue with its followers......

STOP ignoring it and start addressing it.......stop making excuses and stop the projection on to Christians and others....

Islam needs reformation out of these extremist elements period, full stop.....

THATS the religion you should have an issue with, you know , the one causing real harm

My dislike of religion is equal among Christians, Muslims, Mormons, Hindus, etc. Yes I dislike Christianity. I also dislike Islam. I'm an equal opportunity heathen.

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Christians have done all off those things before too, they just happened before you were around to see them.

Out of sight out of mind I guess?

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
Wait........

I see a lot of justification here for hating christians........

But its wrong to dislike Muslims.........even tho they are the ones cutting off heads, blowing themselves up, killing women and children , not allowing women to drive or vote, and killing people for a cartoon?

Two different kinds of intolerance are being discussed here. Christian intolerance is towards Christians wanting to push their religion on others. Muslim intolerance is people hating Muslims because they are Muslim. If Muslims ever got a reasonable presence here in the US to push theocratic laws or try to impose their religion onto my life enough, then I'd complain about them too. But that isn't the case, instead its ALWAYS Christians trying to push their religion onto me here in America.

Funnily enough Christians are constantly complaining about Muslims implementing Sharia Law here in the states, when Christians are closer to implementing THEIR version of Sharia Law than Muslims could ever hope to be.

Oh but you say "Dont lump them all into one group under Islam!"

Yet I see a whole bunch of you doing the same thing to Christians and justifying your illogical , cognitively dissonant attitude....

Check again, I don't want to kill or persecute any Christians for their beliefs. I DO want Christians to stop imposing their religion onto people who don't want it though.

Stop being politically correct and start being honest.........the threat isnt coming from Christians.......

Start with yourself in recognizing the types of discrimination going on.

yes there are hypocrites, yes there are a-holes........

But there is only ONE religion on the planet right now thats having a REAL issue with its followers......

STOP ignoring it and start addressing it.......stop making excuses and stop the projection on to Christians and others....

Now you are trying to turn this thread into a Muslim hate thread (which is offtopic)... Aren't you a Christian? Aren't you supposed to love everyone. THIS is the attitude that is making people not like you guys.

Islam needs reformation out of these extremist elements period, full stop.....

THATS the religion you should have an issue with, you know , the one causing real harm

Christians cause harm to the world in their own way when they try to legislate to get evolution not taught in schools or try to legislate against abortion. Christians still have the same level of intolerance towards people not of their religion as Muslims do (as in its a small proportion of the overall population that are a bunch of idiots and loudmouths that give the whole group a bad name), but Christians have learned how to be sneakier with it (and therefore actually do more damage overall than the immediate gratification of violence).

a reply to: Stormdancer777

Well I am a big fan of you as a member. I've read so many things written by you.

I wish in my real life I could know people like you. I know that you have a wonderful faith and your words shine very bright.

As a fellow member please do not get too sensitive about this. It is a world we all have to live in. There is obviously a very severe marginalisation thing going on right now.

Thanks for the thread. You can count on my support any time.