Why the prince andrew` scandal` is ridiculous

originally posted by: grandmakdw


You do realize he kept girls as young as 14,
it is in the court records

Who kept girls as young as 14 years??

I am assuming you mean Jeffry Epstein? This thread is not
about Jeffry Epstein it is about Prince Andrew who didn't meet
Virginia Roberts till the year 2001 when she was 17yrs going on 18yrs
and the age of consent in the UK is 17yrs.

And have you personally seen the court records or is this hearsay too?

Ok, how about some of the black slaves in the south who were paid, were these really not slaves, just volunteers who were well cared for? By your definition there were black slaves who were not slaves at all.

This is the 21st century and slavery has been long been
abolished and is certainly off topic on this thread.... so if you
want to discuss slavery maybe you should open another thread.

Virginia Roberts father was employed in the same company as
she was, when Ghislaine Maxwell offered her the job with
Jeffry Epstein, and she was living at home at that time, and as
she was also underage at that time her parents had every
right to have the law remove her from Epstein.... but they didn't ..
I wonder why? Perhaps the indirect back handers they were
receiving were too lucrative! .... So we now perhaps have
knowing parents turning a blind eye???

She makes mention in the interview how excited she is to get
a photograph of herself with Andrew to show her parents .....
Hmmn...wonder if she also had an ulterior motive?

a reply to: eletheia

Epstein was convicted for sex with girls as young as 14, it is in the court records, according to what I have read.

Yes, slavery is very much on topic here. You were the one who said the girls could not be slaves because they reaped financial gain from being held on the island with no way to leave, in order to sexually service men. I was proving that throughout history slaves have received financial gain during their enslavement and getting items or money does not mean they were not slaves.

Epstein kept multiple girls as sex slaves, not just Virginia

and the court records show that there were other younger girls there

while Virginia was there.

If her father knew about it, shame on him for "sending" his daughter into prostitution and sexual slavery.

While slavery has been legally abolished, it is still practiced. There are articles, not infrequently, how people in the US have held women as sex slaves. It does still happen, legal or not.
Slavery is still quite openly practiced in Africa and in the Middle East.
Slavery, particularly sex slavery is very alive and well, and not infrequent in the world.

As I said before the Prince and Clinton may have visited the island and not known what was happening,
but they have to have the brains of rocks
not to notice what was going on.

For me, the big deal about all of this is that powerful men went to an island that held
(let's forget 14-17 year old girls for sex)
there were sex slaves on the island who were there
top service the rich and powerful men of the world.
Slavery to me is the primary issue here and the one that the media
is totally overlooking, I think on purpose to protect the
rich and powerful who used the sex slaves.
The media sees having sex with a teenager as less onerous
than having sex with a sex slave, and so pump up the
age thing to take the world's mind off the
slavery thing.
Sexual slavery is the real issue and the most crucial issue
of the entire scandal.

a reply to: grandmakdw


As I understand it this thread is about Andrew and one
girl/woman, Virginia Roberts who has made an accusation against
him. However an accusation is just that until a court reaches a
verdict??

Jeffry Epstein may have had a harem of underage girls,
There was a court verdict against him and he served time, but as the
thread title states it is about ANDREW AND AN ACCUSATION
AGAINST HIM MADE BY A GIRL WHO WAS OVER THE AGE OF CONSENT.

I have read her story and in my opinion she was no *SLAVE* there
were many openings and times she could have got away - if she
REALLY wanted to.

My views on this thread are in line with what the OP title states
only ...
If you want to discuss Jeffry Epstein and his Harem start another
thread on it

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Firat off they were minors so they cant be considered to give consent. Second there are vicrims saying they were raped, you think they shouls be ignored despite the fact we know underage girls were kept on this ISLAND?

We know Epstein had underage girls on his island and we know rich guya viaites surinf that time including the prince and we know some claimed they were raped. More than enough tobstart a trial. I sincerely doubt there was a public ferry to let the girls come and go, but that doesnt matter. Do you really think the girla xouls be both free there and the prince be unaware od what was going on? Nope cant have it both ways.

You know you are just arguing to argue

a reply to: eletheia

You need to read my posts on the last page.
I outline all the other crimes he would be party to.

It was known there were underage girls there too and minors cant give consent, I dont think the girl was 18 was she?
Also these girls had no way to leave on their free will. Also they were probably held somehwere. Either they were kept in a separate location or wvery guest saw them and knew the messed up stuff this guy was doing.


Oh and you said she was over the age of consent.. you failed to mention she said he raped her. You know rape, no consent.
It creeps me out when people defend anyone who was hanging out at the luxurious underage rape island with Epstein.

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow


You need to read my posts on the last page.
I outline all the other crimes he would be party to.

I did ... and it seems to me that a lot of people are mixing up the
two, Andrew and Jeffry Epstein when commenting on things.
As yet there has been only an accusation .... I'm sure the law states
innocent until proven guilty?

I outline all the other crimes he would be party to

Ummm.... Are you a lawyer then?

It was known there were underage girls there too and minors cant give consent, I dont think the girl was 18 was she?
Also these girls had no way to leave on their free will. Also they were probably held somehwere. Either they were kept in a separate location or wvery guest saw them and knew the messed up stuff this guy was doing.

# it was known .... or was it a FACT?
# I don't think the girl was 18 ? She first met Andrew 2001 her 18th year
# These girls had no way? to leave of their own free will
# they were kept in a separate location ... you know that for a FACT?
I see an awful lot of supposition there!!!

Oh and you said she was over the age of consent.. you failed to mention she said he raped her. You know rape, no consent.

She said he raped her ... The key phrase!!
Make no mistake I think rape is a heinous crime but I reiterate
Innocent until proven guilty just because you don't like
the man doesn't make him automatically guilty Haven't you
ever heard of women crying rape on an innocent man before? I have!!

I have an 18 year old grand daughter and I am fully confident and
can assure you that she would rather die than do ANYTHING she
didn't want to do .... LOL she maintains a stiletto is a "Girls best
friend"

a reply to: eletheia

I don't get why you are so adamant about defending this behavior.
I can see that no matter what Morrow and I point out,
no matter what is recorded in the court case against Epstein,
you will defend this reprehensible behavior to the bitter end.
Sad really, especially since you have a daughter.

By the way, you are not a Mod, so don't try to kick me off here and tell me to go start another thread.
Sex slavery is a real issue in this case,
sweeping it under the rug doesn't make it go away.
You pretending it isn't an issue in this particular case doesn't make it go away.
The sex slavery and underage girls are inexorably tied together.
You saying it isn't doesn't negate the fact it is.

a reply to: grandmakdw

If they were kept on an island, 24/7, with limited to no transportation out of there, then yes, you are 100% correct. They were slaves. As a poster put earlier, it seems she was flown around the world, given money to live off of, and if she wanted to make an honest attempt at escape she had the resources to do it. Physical presence of someone is not iron-clad, she could have used money to grease the wheels, so to speak. She also got married and had kids, relocated literally around the world with a 5 person family...not cheap.

My main question is how she found herself in that position in the first place. Does it say anywhere what she was doing, where she was, etc. when she was first approached about this?

Was she abducted or did she go willingly?

Why wont everyone leave poor Andrew alone, cant you see he is being set up.

The royals and the rest of the elites have the highest of moral standards and are the poor targets of the jealous peasants.

They would not have, or need the ability to hide perversities like they are accused of.

I feel sorry for the peasants that are so jealous of our poor royals that they have to make up such heinous lies.





Cant you see he is just a down to earth, wholesome family man?
SARC/off

People need to study up on trauma based mind control and dissociative identity disorder.

a reply to: Ensinger23

I can't answer all your questions. Guess we'll just have to read her book to find out.


Found these references: they didn't link, but you can probably copy paste each into Google and get the answers you seek.

Lewis, Paul (January 4, 2015). "Jeffrey Epstein: The rise and fall of teacher turned tycoon". Guardian.

"Billionaire in Palm Beach sex scandal; Investigators: Moneyman Jeffrey Epstein solicited teen masseuses". Smoking Gun. July 26, 2006. Cf. Palm Beach Police Dep’t Probable Cause Aff., May 1, 2006.

Marra, Andrew (August 14, 2006). "Jeffrey Epstein craved big homes, elite friends — and, investigators say, underage girls". Palm Beach Post. Archived from the original on June 16, 2011.

Gregorian, Dareh (November 12, 2007). "Cops' flops letting mogul get off easy". New York Post.

Keller, Larry (February 6, 2008). "Second teen-sex suit seeks $50 million from Jeffrey Epstein". Palm Beach Post. Archived from the original on February 9, 2008.

Goodnough, Abby (September 3, 2006). "Questions of Preferential Treatment Are Raised in Florida Sex Case". The New York Times. Retrieved May 6, 2010.

Sutherland, Amber (February 25, 2011). "Billionaire Jeffrey Epstein: I’m a sex offender, not a predator". New York Post.

Lewis, Paul; Swaine, John (January 10, 2015). "Jeffrey Epstein: Inside the decade of scandal entangling Prince Andrew". Guardian.

Dargan, Michele (June 18, 2010). "Former Epstein house manager Alfredo Rodriguez sentenced to 18 months". Palm Beach Daily News. Retrieved January 12, 2012.

Spencer-Wendel, Susan (February 1, 2010). "Ex-Epstein worker faces obstruction charges". The Palm Beach Post. Retrieved January 12, 2012.

Withnall, Adam (January 4, 2015). "Teenage ‘sex slave’ Virginia Roberts claims she was paid £10,000 by Jeffrey Epstein to have sex with Prince Andrew". Independent.

Han, Esther (January 6, 2015). "Virginia Roberts’ new lease on life after escaping from billionaire sexual predator Jeffrey Epstein". Sydney Morning Herald.

Boren, Zachary (January 5, 2015). "Prince Andrew ‘sex slave’ scandal: Virginia Roberts ‘met the Queen’". Independent. "Roberts’ father claims she was introduced to the Queen, but Buckingham Palace has ‘no record’ of a meeting."

"U.S. lawyer Dershowitz sues in Prince Andrew sex claim case". BBC News UK. January 6, 2015.

Virginia Roberts: 'Sex slave diary' published containing alleged intimate details about Prince Andrew Independent article

Prince Andrew under renewed pressure to speak about 'sex abuse' claims after flight logs emerge Daily Telegraph article

Rayner, Gordon (January 21, 2015). "Prince Andrew ‘will open Davos speech by addressing sex abuse allegations’". Telegraph (London).

Jeffrey Epstein offered to pay teen victim to have his child: court records

"‘Jane Doe’ v. Jeffrey Epstein: Billionaire faces $50M sexual assault lawsuit". FindLaw. Thomson Reuters. February 6, 2008.

Keller, Larry (March 5, 2008). "Third alleged victim files sex suit against Jeffrey Epstein". Palm Beach Post (Fla.).

Rush, George; Molloy, Joanna (January 10, 2010). "Billionaire Jeffrey Epstein shells out more money in latest sex abuse lawsuit". New York Daily News.

Lewis, Paul; Ball, James (January 3, 2015). "Prince Andrew named in U.S. lawsuit over underage sex claims". Guardian.

Gerstein, Josh (December 31, 2014). "Woman who sued convicted billionaire over sex abuse levels claims at his friends". Politico.

a reply to: eletheia

Reread my comment. You are misinterpretting my info.

I dont know that the girla were kept in a separate area. I said either they were (which might help andrew somewhat) or they were not which means he was likely aware of everything that was going on. I mean if I was on a rich guys island and it was filled with young (many underage) girls then id have some questions. Wouldnt you. Im saying if thwy werent kept separately than there is a good chance Andrew new esactly what Epstein and that island was about.

If he knew and participated with a girl of age and raped her as is alleges than I sincerely doubt that was his one indulgence at the island. I cant imagine he thought "Jeffrey, I cant have sex with an underage girl! Raping 18year olds is where I draw the line! ) not to mention he knew about all this and participated and said nothing which makes him a party of all those crimes listed.

I didnt just pull thoae possible charges out of my a** if it were me prosecuting id lay every one of those on him. If Royals and celebritiea were treated like the peasant masses he would be.

originally posted by: grandmakdw
According to the former slave who testified in us court and was proven to be a sex slave,

Please show us the court case and transcript where that occurred....

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
a reply to: eletheia

Reread my comment. You are misinterpretting my info.

I dont know that the girla were kept in a separate area. I said either they were (which might help andrew somewhat) or they were not which means he was likely aware of everything that was going on. I mean if I was on a rich guys island and it was filled with young (many underage) girls then id have some questions. Wouldnt you. Im saying if thwy werent kept separately than there is a good chance Andrew new esactly what Epstein and that island was about.

If he knew and participated with a girl of age and raped her as is alleges than I sincerely doubt that was his one indulgence at the island. I cant imagine he thought "Jeffrey, I cant have sex with an underage girl! Raping 18year olds is where I draw the line! ) not to mention he knew about all this and participated and said nothing which makes him a party of all those crimes listed.

I didnt just pull thoae possible charges out of my a** if it were me prosecuting id lay every one of those on him. If Royals and celebritiea were treated like the peasant masses he would be.

In ALL my posts i have only referred to Virginia Roberts OWN
story as she herself told a reporter (Sharon Churcher) in an
interview of her first meeting with Andrew.
HER STORY

In 2001 (her 18th year) She flew to London and Ghislaine
Maxwell's home. the next day they went on a shopping spree,
purchases included £5000 Burberry bag, designer dresses, toiletries
and perfume.

"To be honest she says I was sort of excited to be meeting
Prince Andrew, that was the lifestyle to which Jeffry had
accustomed me."

[NOTE...."sort of excited" NOT sick at the thought

As she had been having sex with Jeffry Epstein since she was 15yrs
old and there have been other names of 'rich men' bandied about
Do you seriously think she didn't know the score
Are you really that NAIVE

I will reiterate it just in case you missed it from an interview
SHE HERSELF GAVE no hearsay.

a reply to: eletheia

It still isn't the way a British Prince of the realm should be behaving, sorry but you have to take public opinion into account as they support this man's bangs and explosion s etc. which occur regularly.

The girl was so young that, can you really think she was responsible for the lifestyle she was leading and hard-nosed connived to lead it?

She had been groomed probably because of being pretty and abused, her acts paid for so exploited by older men, one of whom was handy andy.

Queenie maintains a large press office to control what the public are told about - one doesn't need to guess why. Currently andy is trying to get his daughters rolls of so-called 'work' so they can be put on the british tax payers bill. Apart from the cavorting yet more royals without any form of proper job or ability to support themselves. Perhaps too much time on their hands doesn't help their moral behaviour when it comes to family values.

a reply to: eletheia

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: grandmakdw
According to the former slave who testified in us court and was proven to be a sex slave,

Please show us the court case and transcript where that occurred....

Did you see the list of articles above?
Start there and look for yourself. The evidence is out there and I gave plenty of references.

I'm not going to file a freedom of information act and get the transcript of the trial just to satisfy some strangers curiosity.

If you want to read it, file the paperwork yourself.

If you were to lazy to check out the references above, here are some links for you
pagesix.com...
cases.bms11.com...
go there and you can find what you need in order to go to the correct court and file the paperwork to get a copy of the court documents under the freedom of information act. It should only take you 6 months to never to receive the answer
since too many elites are involved, you'd probably find the paperwork lost or misplaced over and over, but you are welcome to try. I won't do your work for you. (sorry, but that's the retired Professor in me)

It is against T&C of ATS to post salacious and graphic material of the kind in the court case and transcript,
and I will not provide it for you, so quit asking.

Documents from the actual court cases (yes plural) are within the references I have provided.
Want to find the answers you seek, just look, it didn't take me long.

You will find Epstein did all the reprehensible things listed in the thread.
You will also find there is evidence the Prince was there.

However, again, I'll grant you the Prince
and Clinton may have the mental capacity
of a single slug between the 2 of them
and didn't realize what was going on around them.

I agree that it's not a pedophile issue, but no 18 year old of either gender is fully developed physically or mentally.

Just sayin'

a reply to: grandmakdw

You're confusing two seperate things in the hope to make something it isn't.

He was convicted of soliciting sex with a minor - which is basically trying to pay for sex. Whether he knew she was a minor isn't the issue and neither is the concept of her being a "sex slave". It was the mother who complained to the Police, if I recall, when she found out he was giving her daughter money. No where was it mentioned, or even alleged, he kept the girl as a sex slave and you're totally distorting the issue by constantly mentioning it.

As far as Andrew is concerned, if he did sleep with the girl, he probably just thought his rich mate had got some hookers - men do it the world over, rich and poor alike.

a reply to: eletheia

In 2001 (her 18th year) She flew to London and Ghislaine

She was seventeen.

a reply to: stumason

Go back and read all the references I listed throughout the thread.
There are many that refer to sexual slavery.

I am not mixing 2 things, the DA, went very light on him and did not file all the charges that the evidence warranted, one judge even stated as such in the court records.

Before giving a reply like this, read all the references provided and check out the evidence for yourself.
T&C prevents me from doing so here.