Is marijuana really as dangerous as heroin and LSD? Finally, a welcome legal review

a reply to: Heliocentric
I see what you're saying here, it's a well written and valid point. However just because something isn't written about in a peer reviewed report it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It just means that nobody has produced a peer reviewed paper on it.

What you could do is do some research which doesn't involve peer reviewed papers but could still be classified as valid. For example, a very well known site which comes up on Google when you type in "xxxxx experiences" the xxxxxs being the substance. Here you will find many first hand accounts (indeed they all could be fake) of experiences with substances. It is here you will see that '___' can have a negative mental effect and that cannabis in the form of Marijuana is potentially harmful.

Or you could block sensible discourse by limiting yourself only to subjects written in peer reviewed papers.

EDIT: I'm not saying these substances are as bad as the media makes out, I'm just saying rose tinted glasses and all that.

I'm quite liberal when it comes to drugs in general. We've wasted so much man power, resources, money, and even lives trying to stop drug trafficking/consumption. Laws aren't going to stop people, they never will. People will consume them one way or the other. It's just the plain old truth. Been that way since drugs were discovered, or created in some instances. If I really wanted to, I could go out and find meth, heroin, coc aine, weed, any pharma drug in the book, shrooms, and so on. Hell, where I live has been notorious for meth. A buddy of mine had officers poking around his house for heroin when he moved into his trailer not long ago last year. This was because there was an alleged dealer in the neighborhood. Another buddy of mine messaged me over facebook about a week ago telling me some chick got him to do coke. When I asked why, he simply said something like "It's the power of the vagina man." I snickered a bit when he said that, maybe I shouldn't have, but that's the way it is. Drugs are all around. There's no escape.

Although I don't mean to say it all should be legal and readily available. If people are caught carrying out in public certain penalties should occur. Although I wouldn't take draconian measures like we do now. Tossing someone in jail doesn't help them in anyway whatsoever. Being around other criminals isn't exactly a great of rehabilitation program. Not to mention nobody will hire anyone who has a drug record on their resume, most won't anyway. Especially if it was a felony charge. You'd be lucky just to scrape up a minimum wage sucky job for the rest of your life. Unless you know enough people who will help you and overlook it. (family, close friends, old colleague, etc.) And when you can't find a job, you either have to create your own business, or go about doing business in some unsavory ways. Which typically just results back to drugs in the end mostly.

We need to educate people on the dangers of them, and help them overcome addictions that they may face. While trying to prevent these situations beforehand. Tossing someone in jail is ridiculous. It's just a harsh way of turning your back and deliberately watching the other person rot their life away in a cage. It's not for the accusers benefit, it's for all of the people on the outside. Drug users have basically been labeled psychotic whack-jobs who are an imminent threat to innocence. Yet, nobody seems to see the damaged humans underneath. And nobody sees the hypocrisy behind it all.

A drug is a drug at the end of the day. I don't care what it is. I laugh at the fact that beer/alcohol (alcohol), or even energy drink/coffee (caffeine) commercials are thrown in our face all the time. Yet, when Cannabis or other drugs, are brought up, people lose their minds. Some people out there are addicted to drugs and they don't even know it. Or even believe it. A big one I see are the people who drink a lot of coffee. I know everyone here plenty of times in their life, probably even within the last week, has heard someone say, or maybe yourself say, roughly the following; "Gee, I haven't had my coffee this morning, I'm all out of it right now." Why is that? CAFFEINE! It's pumped full of the stuff, And it is a DRUG, a stimulant drug that is in fact addictive, and it can help lead to your demise, slowly but surely. Drink a bunch of those energy boosters/energy drinks, or even some sodas out there? Guess what? CAFFEINE! It's pumped full of caffeine also. You're suffering from a caffeine withdraw dumb-dumb! Your body has become accustomed to it after so long. It can't function the same without that drug anymore.

Another one are the people out there who have been injured (typically people who are middle-aged or older), and yes honestly injured. Some, maybe not so much. Maybe just a bad case of hypochondria. These people drown themselves in painkillers. My father actually does this. And I see many others getting them easily from doctors, or just buying them off people who get them from doctors instead. I'll see him pop about 4 vicodins at one time. And this is pretty much a daily thing. But, it's not without reason. He's had all kinds of surgeries. He was rather reckless with his body in his life, and he's paying for it big time now. I understand it helps him deal with all of his injuries, but at the same time, I'm very worried. Painkillers and other pharma drugs are just as dangerous. A lot of pharma drugs, typically for pain, mimic/carry opiates in their genetic makeup. (morphine, codeine, hydrocodone/vicodin, etc.) Opium/opiates or course is the main ingredient inside of the boogeyman drug known as heroin. I myself despise pharma drugs. They're just wolves in sheeps clothes if you ask me. They may help for a bit, but they just lead to other problems, much like any other drugs. Then they have the audacity to give you more pharma drugs to cover the side effects of the first drug, and it may just compound from there. It's complete madness.

I'll add one more instance. A huge one in todays age, is the swarm of anti anxiety/depressions drugs. (Stuff like Zoloft, adderall, ritalin, etc.) It seems as though everyone these days has ADD, ADHD, OCD, and anything inbetween. A kid who wants to run around and cause a ruckus today seems to be deemed as someone with a behavioral disorder, and I guess only a little magical pill will fix that right up. Don't you see that you're just setting up your kids to be dependant on drugs at a young age? It causes chemical changes in the brain, and that's not a very wise thing to do in a young growing/developing brain. Synthetically flooding the brain with things such as dopamine is not exactly a good thing.

I'm sick of people drawing a line between "bad drugs" and "good drugs." Sure some teenager will take some drugs to get high and wind of dead, while someone takes them fresh after a surgery not to be in total agony. Drugs are kind of like a credit card. You can go wild with it, and have a whole lot of fun, and wake up one day paying for it for the rest of your life. Or you can use it responsibly, make a few purchases here and there inside your budget, while staying in control. It all falls down on the person, not the drug. Some people can go on a drug binge, and afterwards have the ability not to resort back to them. Others keep going back for more. Some societies/countries on this planet aren't very strict when it comes to drugs, and they have quite low heavy users statistics compared to countries who are strict on it. Drugs are a very complex issue, and it appears obvious that the things we've been doing, and the ways we've been thinking about them are just a complete fallacy. I'm ready for a logical and reasonable change.

Thank you for your feedback and14263

Having used Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds for 20 + years, I don't feel that my experience of the subject matter is limited to reading peer reviewed reports, but I agree that didn't come through in my short post.

I insisted on peer research studies on Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds simply because they do not show what most industrialized nations governments pretend that they show. There exists no scientific or medical data on health or mental effects of this substance that can justify a total ban and criminalization. We can therefore draw the conclusion that the reason for its ban is political and not scientific, and the debate should therefore be of a political nature rather than scientific.

That said, the experience and effect of certain psychoactive substances is highly individual. I would not recommend the use of Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds to any person with a fragile mental health or disorders, but even that is individual, and as you may know Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds has been used successfully as a therapeutic tool in various treatments of psychic disorders.

a reply to: Heliocentric

I see where you're coming from now. I agree that the ban is political, substances have a tendency to open the mind and motivate thought patterns which are not in our leader's best interests.

I guess it's never black and white with these things (or anything for that matter, despite society making us often make black or white decisions and judgments) and what is good for one is bad for another. As you rightly say, experience is individual.

a reply to: and14263

The problem with using Google to find 'first-hand' experiences and placing any credence to the conclusions drawn therein is that we have no basis to understand underlying conditions. What mental health state does the person have, other substance uses, etc. I've known people to have bad experiences with a variety of substances. I've seen experienced users have an isolated bad experience for some reason or another. But if you listen to any pharmaceutical TV ad you'll hear them read a litany of 'possible side effects' at the end. These arise in a very small percentage of people. Similarly, not every one can/should drink. Not everyone can/should use weed. Not everyone can/should use ____. Simple as that. Additionally, everyone's body chemistry is unique. People who can/do use have to determine their own optimum level of use. Going one-for-one with a friend will almost always end badly.

a reply to: jtma508

Yes, what you say is clearly right. Any subjective report written in text will not give sufficient background info to make your decision making process 100% accurate.

However after reading reports like this we can usually use our common sense and experience to draw conclusions. Not scientific I know but probability suggests our life experiences will help us make decisions.

I didn't want to violate terms by posting addresses - Erowi* is one site, Blueligh* is another.

My main point being, in our society where education is terrible, it is not a good idea to let people run riot with substances, illegal or legal.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

If marijuana is so awesome why is no one wants a stoned brain surgeon working on them?
"Dude let me just take another hit and we'll pop your top of get to partying.....oh wow it's all squirmy there."

originally posted by: mash3d
a reply to: Krazysh0t

If marijuana is so awesome why is no one wants a stoned brain surgeon working on them?
"Dude let me just take another hit and we'll pop your top of get to partying.....oh wow it's all squirmy there."

Wow, that is some hyperbole there. Question, how do you feel about a drunk brain surgeon working on you? Alcohol is legal and by all measures FAR worse than marijuana. Heck, many medical strains of marijuana don't even get you high. Come back when you get a real argument.

a reply to: mash3d

What a blatantly ignorant post. Like anyone would want a surgeon, pilot, bus driver or any other profession operating under ANY intoxicant. You probably wouldn't want one who had been up all night playing Call of Duty either would you?

a reply to: Krazysh0t

*SNIP* _MOD EDIT

I'm usually an observer on this forum but couldn't help myself after reading the most BS I have read in a long time..
So let's get started
1. Yes you do grow a tolerance to MJ
2.you can be physically and mentally addicted to it!
3.It causes short term memory loss
4.It 'can' lead to further drug misuse
5.it can be used beneficial for medicinal use..
6.it can cause phycosis

Just a few pointers from a pot head

a reply to: jtma508

I hope you realise the strength of pot has increased over the last decade, the # you was smoking 40 years ago probably had an extremely low Thc content, which voids your comments.. All of the facts I've stated are true I've seen /witnessed it with my own eyes..
If you smoke pot everyday and think your not an addict your in denial

originally posted by: meowningstar
a reply to: Krazysh0t

*SNIP* MOD EDIT

I'm usually an observer on this forum but couldn't help myself after reading the most BS I have read in a long time..
So let's get started
1. Yes you do grow a tolerance to MJ
2.you can be physically and mentally addicted to it!
3.It causes short term memory loss
4.It 'can' lead to further drug misuse
5.it can be used beneficial for medicinal use..
6.it can cause phycosis

Just a few pointers from a pot head

Apparently you have an addictive personality and should seek professional help.
MJ abuse is only the tip of the iceberg imo. Drug abuse is just the symptom of something much more deep
seated in a persons psychological profile.

a reply to: olaru12

You are correct in many instances however some people do just like to take drugs, like you may like to have a coffee or a biscuit everyday... for the pleasure.

Many trade-in MJ use for exercise - both release endorphines and make you feel great, however you wouldn't say someone who exercises every night is covering problems would you?

Again though - yes most are covering for something and do not even realise that fact, until they stop doing what they are doing.

originally posted by: meowningstar
a reply to: olaru12

MOD EDIT

People get really aggressive too when it's not available.

I would also add that loads of smokers have a J and then do not dare to go to the shop through paranoia... That is bad.

a reply to: meowningstar

First of all, we can't talk of personal experience here, so you might want to edit your posts.

Second, if you are older than 45 or so, try taking a melatonin supplement to sleep. The body makes less and less of it as we age, and supplements like melatonin are one of the goddesssends of our 'enlightened' age. Please share this data and continue to pass it on, at least a few times, it was given to me by a major hemp activist. Thanks.

a reply to: meowningstar

It's in the terms and conditions, one of the rules. Not long ago we couldn't even type the word marijuana, let alone discuss it here. So the improvements in that area on ATS have been nothing short of Denying Ignorance. But still, management and the admins don't allow personal experience posts. Thanks.