Prophet Muhamad Cartoons

a reply to: fr33sp33ch

I think you've responded to the wrong person...


Either that or you failed to understand a word I'd said...


I miss sosobad's input...
But I understand his lack of activity on ATS...
I've thought about not coming on as much because of the blind hatred & bile being dished out by a select few of persistently pathetic members...


Does that clarify what I said for you!?!

The world is blind to it's own sin. Whatever happens, I'm to the point of not giving a #. Go kill the brown people. An eye for an eye. Check your holier than thou crap when they issue you a weapon and battle dress. Then you'll wonder no more as to why things like this happen. Choke on it.

a reply to: LOSTinAMERICA

And the world you depict will only ever be changed through a new school of thought.
When I reach a point that an idea, or concept, or even a whole perspective has reached
it's limit, I don't let it hold me back. I abandon it and look for a higher plateau.

But in order to ever have the opportunity to grow, freedom of speech must be preserved.
Even if what I say may offend someone else. Why does my opinion matter to anyone anyway?
If you like it though, please feel free to build off those concepts.

I am observing and not taking any sides. I am not naive as to why things like this happen either. Whoever is against war in the Middle East gets my vote. I won't be part of the problem. Even if my vote is meaningless and I'm sure it will be. I don't condone the murders. I would love to get to the center of the problem. You don't win anything without going for the problem. I can't make people think a certain way or talk them out of insanity. Policy in my opinion is to blame. That means we are to blame. Sure we can go kill them but the underlying problem is still there.

Did you expect your enemy to give you quarter?

a reply to: fr33sp33ch

Yet the world is all messed up still. Please fix it.

Peace talks and not running other countries business would be a big #ing start.

Here's our legacy.

The numbers are not real bad if you look at history.

Wars and Casualties of the 20th and 21st Centuries

1860-65: USA civil war (628,000)
1886-1908: Belgium-Congo Free State (8 million)
1898: USA-Spain & Philippines (220,000)
1899-02: British-Boer war (100,000)
1899-03: Colombian civil war (120,000)
1899-02: Philippines vs USA (20,000)
1900-01: Boxer rebels against Russia, Britain, France, Japan, USA against rebels (35,000)
1903: Ottomans vs Macedonian rebels (20,000)
1904: Germany vs Namibia (65,000)
1904-05: Japan vs Russia (150,000)
1910-20: Mexican revolution (250,000)
1911: Chinese Revolution (2.4 million)
1911-12: Italian-Ottoman war (20,000)
1912-13: Balkan wars (150,000)
1915: the Ottoman empire slaughters Armenians (1.2 million)
1915-20: the Ottoman empire slaughters 500,000 Assyrians
1916-23: the Ottoman empire slaughters 350,000 Greek Pontians and 480,000 Anatolian Greeks
1914-18: World War I (20 million)
1916: Kyrgyz revolt against Russia (120,000)
1917-21: Soviet revolution (5 million)
1917-19: Greece vs Turkey (45,000)
1919-21: Poland vs Soviet Union (27,000)
1928-37: Chinese civil war (2 million)
1931: Japanese Manchurian War (1.1 million)
1932-33: Soviet Union vs Ukraine (10 million)
1932: "La Matanza" in El Salvador (30,000)
1932-35: "Guerra del Chaco" between Bolivia and Paraguay (117.500)
1934: Mao's Long March (170,000) 1936: Italy's invasion of Ethiopia (200,000)
1936-37: Stalin's purges (13 million) 1936-39: Spanish civil war (600,000)
1937-45: Japanese invasion of China (500,000)
1939-45: World War II (55 million) including holocaust and Chinese revolution
1946-49: Chinese civil war (1.2 million)
1946-49: Greek civil war (50,000)
1946-54: France-Vietnam war (600,000)
1947: Partition of India and Pakistan (1 million)
1947: Taiwan's uprising against the Kuomintang (30,000)
1948-1958: Colombian civil war (250,000)
1948-1973: Arab-Israeli wars (70,000)
1949-: Indian Muslims vs Hindus (20,000)
1949-50: Mainland China vs Tibet (1,200,000)
1950-53: Korean war (3 million) 1952-59: Kenya's Mau Mau insurrection (20,000)
1954-62: French-Algerian war (368,000)
1958-61: Mao's "Great Leap Forward" (38 million)
1960-90: South Africa vs Africa National Congress (?)
1960-96: Guatemala's civil war (200,000)
1961-98: Indonesia vs West Papua/Irian (100,000)
1961-2003: Kurds vs Iraq (180,000)
1962-75: Mozambique Frelimo vs Portugal (10,000)
1962-75: Angolan FNLA & MPLA vs Portugal (50,000)
1964-73: USA-Vietnam war (3 million)
1965: second India-Pakistan war over Kashmir
1965-66: Indonesian civil war (250,000)
1966-69: Mao's "Cultural Revolution" (11 million)
1966-: Colombia's civil war (31,000)
1967-70: Nigeria-Biafra civil war (800,000)
1968-80: Rhodesia's civil war (?)
1969-: Philippines vs the communist Bagong Hukbong Bayan/ New People's Army (40,000)
1969-79: Idi Amin, Uganda (300,000)
1969-02: IRA - Norther Ireland's civil war (3,000)
1969-79: Francisco Macias Nguema, Equatorial Guinea (50,000)
1971: Pakistan-Bangladesh civil war (500,000)
1972-2014: Philippines vs Muslim separatists (Moro Islamic Liberation Front, etc) (150,000)
1972: Burundi's civil war (300,000)
1972-79: Rhodesia/Zimbabwe's civil war (30,000)
1974-91: Ethiopian civil war (1,000,000)
1975-78: Menghitsu, Ethiopia (1.5 million)
1975-79: Khmer Rouge, Cambodia (1.7 million)
1975-89: Boat people, Vietnam (250,000)
1975-87: civil war in Lebanon (130,000)
1975-87: Laos' civil war (184,000)
1975-2002: Angolan civil war (500,000)
1976-83: Argentina's military regime (20,000)
1976-93: Mozambique's civil war (900,000)
1976-98: Indonesia-East Timor civil war (600,000)
1976-2005: Indonesia-Aceh (GAM) civil war (12,000)
1977-92: El Salvador's civil war (75,000)
1979: Vietnam-China war (30,000)
1979-88: the Soviet Union invades Afghanistan (1.3 million)
1980-88: Iraq-Iran war (435,000)
1980-92: Sendero Luminoso - Peru's civil war (69,000)
1984-: Kurds vs Turkey (35,000)
1981-90: Nicaragua vs Contras (60,000)
1982-90: Hissene Habre, Chad (40,000)
1983-: Sri Lanka's civil war (70,000)
1983-2002: Sudanese civil war (2 million)
1986-: Indian Kashmir's civil war (60,000)
1987-: Palestinian Intifada (4,500)
1988-2001: Afghanistan civil war (400,000)
1988-2004: Somalia's civil war (550,000)
1989-: Liberian civil war (220,000)
1989-: Uganda vs Lord's Resistance Army (30,000)
1991: Gulf War - large coalition against Iraq to liberate Kuwait (85,000)
1991-97: Congo's civil war (800,000)
1991-2000: Sierra Leone's civil war (200,000)
1991-2009: Russia-Chechnya civil war (200,000)
1991-94: Armenia-Azerbaijan war (35,000)
1992-96: Tajikstan's civil war war (50,000)
1992-96: Yugoslavian wars (260,000)
1992-99: Algerian civil war (150,000)
1993-97: Congo Brazzaville's civil war (100,000)
1993-2005: Burundi's civil war (200,000)
1994: Rwanda's civil war (900,000)
1995-: Pakistani Sunnis vs Shiites (1,300)
1995-: Maoist rebellion in Nepal (12,000)
1998-: Congo/Zaire's war - Rwanda and Uganda vs Zimbabwe, Angola and Namibia (3.8 million)
1998-2000: Ethiopia-Eritrea war (75,000)
1999: Kosovo's liberation war - NATO vs Serbia (2,000)
2001-: Afghanistan's liberation war - USA & UK vs Taliban (40,000)
2001-: Nigeria vs Boko Haram (1700)
2002-: Cote d'Ivoire's civil war (1,000)
2003-11: Second Iraq-USA war - USA, UK and Australia vs Saddam Hussein's regime and Shiite squads and Sunni extremists (160,000)
2003-09: Sudan vs JEM/Darfur (300,000)
2004-: Sudan vs SPLM & Eritrea (?)
2004-: Yemen vs Shiite Muslims (?)
2004-: Thailand vs Muslim separatists (3,700)
2007-: Pakistan vs PAkistani Taliban (38,000)
2012-: Iraq's civil war after the withdrawal of the USA (?)
2012-: Syria's civil war (200,000)
2014-: Ukraine's civil war (4,700)

Arab-Israeli wars
I (1947-49): 6,373 Israeli and 15,000 Arabs die
II (1956): 231 Israeli and 3,000 Egyptians die
III (1967): 776 Israeli and 20,000 Arabs die
IV (1973): 2,688 Israeli and 18,000 Arabs die
Intifada I (1987-92): 170 Israelis and 1,000 Palestinians
Intifada II (2000-03): 700 Israelis and 2,000 Palestinians
Israel-Hamas war (2008): 1,300 Palestinians

a reply to: fr33sp33ch

You talk I'll pull the trigger.

When you're stating a few psychopaths, do you mean hundreds, thousands, hundreds of thousands? Because as a whole, a few is quite many a reply to: buster2010

originally posted by: Annee


You have the freedom of choice not to draw a cartoon of Mohammed.

But, you want to deny choice to the cartoonists.

There you go again. Your kind do it often. Someone tells you that your actions are "stupid" and you scream that they want to take your rights away.

I don;t want to take a damn thing from you.

I'm an intelligent human being telling you that drawing Mohammed is stupid. I;ve been saying it for many years. Yet time and time again someone ends up dead and then people do it again.

Nothing changes.

I don't want to remove your right to suicide by "stupid cartoon". heck...draw a million of them.

Tell me when you have the balls to do it publicly.

Cus here is the thing my friend...while you paint this stupid act as "freedom fighting and noble"- you all cheer it on from an anonymous screen name. Know why? Cus you are not "stupid enough" to do it publicly.

ya...real freedom fighting bro. Artists dying over cartoons. Totally changed the world...again.

Just plain stupid.

Oh, please stop putting words in my mouth and then weighing these stupid cartoons against REAL atrocities- and then acting like they are both the same thing.


MM

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: sosobad

And your input is sorely missed...

But understandable though!


I've contemplated the same thing recently.

Believe me Charlie I sorely miss posting as much as I did. I actually like having lively debates and banter with other members wether I agree with them or not but the hateful undertones that is currently getting free reign is making me want to avoid signing in. People will say that if I don't like it go somewhere else and I am. I originally came here because of good content and moderation, I wish I could still say that. It's a shame too because I've had a few good (I thought anyway) threads to post but what's the point....

Anyone knows full well that drawing pictures of Prophet Mohammed is going to make religious extremists want to kill you. How hard is it, for the sake of world peace, to resist the urge to draw their invisible man in the sky?

Anyone who goes out of their way to provoke these nutcases gets no sympathy from me if they are killed. It's simply a stupid thing to do.

originally posted by: Mr Mask

originally posted by: Annee


You have the freedom of choice not to draw a cartoon of Mohammed.

But, you want to deny choice to the cartoonists.

There you go again. Your kind do it often. Someone tells you that your actions are "stupid" and you scream that they want to take your rights away.

I don;t want to take a damn thing from you.

I'm an intelligent human being telling you that drawing Mohammed is stupid. I;ve been saying it for many years. Yet time and time again someone ends up dead and then people do it again.

Nothing changes.

I don't want to remove your right to suicide by "stupid cartoon". heck...draw a million of them.

Tell me when you have the balls to do it publicly.

Cus here is the thing my friend...while you paint this stupid act as "freedom fighting and noble"- you all cheer it on from an anonymous screen name. Know why? Cus you are not "stupid enough" to do it publicly.

ya...real freedom fighting bro. Artists dying over cartoons. Totally changed the world...again.

Just plain stupid.

Oh, please stop putting words in my mouth and then weighing these stupid cartoons against REAL atrocities- and then acting like they are both the same thing.


MM

With all due respect as I don't know you, no free person should ever bow to terrorism. And that includes terroristic threats of "if you do this...I will kill you". Especially from a group, country or religion.

It is 100% true and proven that if you bow to terrorism, you will get more terrorism in return. Hell...we could even join the bandwagon and start saying that if anyone supports or favors a terrorist...WE will kill THEM. Why not? Sure...it is terrorism but if we actually followed through with that, there would be no more terrorism or terrorists.

And keep in mind...these Muslims want to force their beliefs on the rest of the world. Using force to make people do what you want IS terrorism. At least it is when the "force" is death or murder.

Find those individuals who cheer when a terrorist bombs a bus...and kill the person cheering. Create a world-wide military task force to execute this. And since our military isn't large enough to do that...lets get civilians to do so. Lets get civilians in other countries to kill these people. Maybe use bombs to kill them...and hey...how about we kill anyone around the too. At least that would be justified and it fits with other morals and laws. At least in the USA, it is usually illegal to incite illegal activity. Therefore, cheering on a terrorist is illegal. So why not match that with the same death penalty committed BY the terrorist?

Do you see how easy that is? Don't you see where terrorism can lead? Don't you care that by you talking down about people who stand up for their freedom of speech and belief is...second hand terrorism?

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Why not? Sure...it is terrorism but if we actually followed through with that, there would be no more terrorism or terrorists.

Except ourselves...

For that is what we will become...

& what would be the next divide?..

the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

Given that no one man/woman, no matter their position, has the right or the authority to authorise violence...

Would that not be us?..

Bare in mind, I'm not saying it's a bad thing...

Just feeling philosophical...

Given the definition, many terrorists of the past have brought us towards the freedoms we have...


One man's terrorist, is another man's freedom fighter...

Same meaning vs different perceptions of meaning...


Anyone with 5 minutes to spare, check another's perspective!

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Why not? Sure...it is terrorism but if we actually followed through with that, there would be no more terrorism or terrorists.

Except ourselves...

For that is what we will become...

& what would be the next divide?..

the unofficial or unauthorized use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

Given that no one man/woman, no matter their position, has the right or the authority to authorise violence...

Would that not be us?..

Bare in mind, I'm not saying it's a bad thing...

Just feeling philosophical...

Given the definition, many terrorists of the past have brought us towards the freedoms we have...


One man's terrorist, is another man's freedom fighter...

Same meaning vs different perceptions of meaning...


Anyone with 5 minutes to spare, check another's perspective!

You would think so...but read this for a second. This is a quote from another thread about a different topic that kinda fits.

"Way too much thought friend. Look to nature. If something is bad, it is killed by others. The others then continue on peacefully. So...you can become a killer to remove a killer, and then return to normal operation. Happens all the time. The fact that we have to waste time contemplating the "meaning" of all this makes us human...and THAT is probably a part of the problem. Life is simpler than WE believe."

We can become terrorists to destroy terrorism. But then we can also return to not practicing terrorism. Much like war. No one wants to go to war and kill...but we will if we have to. Then, we return to being productive humans. Probably a bad example since we are always at war, but you get my point

I'm entirely in favour of equal-opportunity offense. It's not a purely British thing, but it has always been a strong part of our national psyche to poke fun at the important - and especially the self-important. Telling us that someone or something is off-limits is like waving a red flag at a bull. I support Draw Mohammad Days, not for any particular like or dislike of the character or the religion, but because people are trying to force me not to do it.

As an interesting aside, I'd suggest reading about the Iconoclast Fury that swept Europe. Violence and destruction because one group of Christians didn't like another group of Christians having statues and drawings of religious figures. Ok, that's a bit of an over-simplification of the situation, but I think it adds an interesting perspective to the debate.

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: screwey

Better you don't make cartoons of their prophet naked and in all possible disgusting positions. They are not ready for that kind of humor.
If we have the right to ridiculize their religion in our cartoons, they have the right to be deeply hurt by our cartoons. But their reaction is cruel and I condemn it.

a reply to: zandra

Well these extremist xenophobic religious intolerant maniacs need to be dragged into the 21 century somehow! Their reaction is unwarranted and completely disproportionate regarding what amounts to simple freedom of expression.

What's next some form of humorous limerick that somehow offends there sensibilities thus prompts them to further violence?

There nothing but sad little cowards with an axe to grind and a twisted agenda to satisfy!

I should also add there actions and intent to incite social unrest amongst our respective populations do not represent the majority of the Islamic faith.

a reply to: Mr Mask

I personally would not draw a pic of Mohammed.

But, then I wouldn't exclude it, if my choice of career was as a satirical cartoonist.

That's where we disagree on "stupid". Drawing everything else, but excluding Mohammed because of threats.