Want to Protect the Conspiracy Theorist Community? Start (Loudly) Denying Ignorance and Lunacy.

a reply to: CagliostroTheGreat

Would you be disappointed if this site was more about the truth than conspiracies? Serious question but I think it would be a good indication about what people coming here are looking for. Information or entertainment?



e: and the last killer just got shot too. I think now we will have to wait a few more days to get the full picture but it's quite certain it's everything but a false flag.


The people claiming false flag in the US regarding these shootings do so because they are afraid someone would take their precious guns. They aren't being rational about this, only emotional. It doesn't apply in here, we already have no guns :p

a reply to: JUhrman

A healthy mix of both is what I say. I come here for information and entertainment, hence my regular participation in the short stories forum. I am all over these boards, one minute I'm debating MJ legalization in social issues and civil unrest the next I'm complimenting a painting in member art. I'm not saying that we, as a user generated content community, should support every whackadoo theory that pops up but neither should we dismiss them and suppress them. After all:

This content community relies on user -generated content from our member contributors. The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides a collaborative venue for free expression.

What is the point in this disclaimer if its is not going to be put to use?

Shooting down topics, regardless of their respective lunacy, is probably the antithesis of "strict journalistic agnosticism".

Look, I love this site but sometimes I have to wonder.

originally posted by: JUhrman
Would you be disappointed if this site was more about the truth than conspiracies?

It should be both.

Why can't it be both?

a reply to: JUhrman

Now, much as I agree with your stand point on this topic JUhrman, I think it is important to realise that conspiracies as we know them, can and do turn out being fact. The best example would be the NSA mass surveillance programs PRISM, and ECHELON. The existence of these programs or something like them was rumoured, hinted at, and bandied about on these boards on this site, for YEARS before we ever heard the name Edward Snowden. The fact is that conspiracy discussion is necessary, but we have to be diligent when we go about it, using logic, reason, and the like.

a reply to: CagliostroTheGreat

I doubt any topic that was opened in the correct subforum would be shot down for being too crazy.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I perfectly agree.

My point is that some people don't even like when conspiracies are proven true because it's not what they are looking for deep down.

I'm looking for the truth mainly, so I don't mind serious conspiracy talk.

Others just want entertainment and then it becomes a contest about who makes the craziest claims.

a reply to: JUhrman

I agree, which is why it disheartens me when I see members not posting in the appropriate forum. I wish members would start making better use of skunk works and grey area. I think a lot less threads would be closed or trashed if they did.

a reply to: JUhrman

Ah, I see what you are getting at.

Personally speaking, nothing satisfies me more, than when a spear of pure light illuminates the glistening, rotten innards of the truth to be found in the bowels of society and government. For all the flack people who think about these things get just for questioning the official line, those moments when we are shown to have valid trains of thought are very valuable to me.

a reply to: JUhrman

Would it not make sense to only read and involve yourself in those discussions that interest you and deserve your attention?

As others have said this is a very broad site encompassing many differing topics, no one is going to be interested in all aspects of the site.

originally posted by: Hefficide
a reply to: rockpaperhammock

Creativity is fiction. When dealing in realities one doesn't create truth, one discerns it.

Out of the box analysis of fact and coming to conclusions that are potentially possible is one thing, but creating theories from gut feelings or personal opinion that something is "just not right" is speculation.

Speculation is fine - right up until it reaches the point where it begins to harm others directly.

I totally agree...there has to be some facts there...but ive seen quite a few threads of facts and someone just comes up with an idea..that could be possible and i watch the thread the die with people who say its not possible when it is...even in a tiny way. I can't believe how many religious threads we have aroudn here that dont get taken down...I mean we had 3 freaking religious threads on how god is light...there are no facts there...yet 3 threads stand. You don't see me running in there and yelling that its not possible...because hey...maybe it is...but there are no facts in those yet they stand.

There are 5 rant threads on the front page of ats right now...that should show us the state of this site.

a reply to: JUhrman

You are right...there is a difference. But there was recently a thread of someone comparing all the incidents of how many times terrorists leave their id's behind and how convenient it was. I was surprised to see how many were attacking the OP for a little creative thinking. He had facts...it was true...yet a few members attacked his statement with nothing more than their own opinion.

Yet we have 3 threads on how god is light.... :/ Completely opinion but I suppose possible in some way. Someone mentioned how they get embarrassed saying they go to this site...I get embarrassed by the religious threads on this site.

Im not opposed to someones wacky opinion but then lets be fair to everyone. It all belongs in skunkworks anyway..I think if its posted in skunkworks let it live....the members will surely let a thread thrive or not.

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

Those five rant threads are the most flagged BTS threads. Normally those spots would be taken by things like recipes or commentary on celebrities. It's just a slow week for recipes and celebrities I suppose.

a reply to: JUhrman

I think you've touched on a core issue.

People should question with an open mind in their search for truth, no matter how dull or disturbing the answers may be.

We should not cherry pick information, jump to conclusions or make stuff up to support preconceived notions. Confirmation bias has no place in the quest for truth and should be discouraged within the CT community. Otherwise, we're just an echo chamber of paranoia.

I would like to add my 2 cents in this rant, please forgive my english, but I won't feel guilty to have an opinion that may seem disrespectful to someone.
Involved persons do not deserve to be harrassed in any way, they are always the target of my compassion. I do wholeheartedly agree that being sensible when discussing an event is a must especially in the vicinity of tragic events that leads to hurtful losses of relatives, friends or properties/wealth/whatever feels important.

However I think it's a matter of "too soon" in most cases, since after a few years the same subjects may be discussed with the same identical words, without hurting so much a wider audience that close to such events go on fire feeling deprived of deserved sensibility. Having an opinion is not necessarily based on facts, especially when we talk about possible cover-ups or false flags where we may never see the real truth behind. Due respect is ok, but with the right behaviour it should be allowed (excluding relatives and close friends etc which I mention before) an opinion based on a logical theory.

In the last 2 days I'm seeing no condemnation for the expression of hate against an entire group of people (muslisms) while I see a harsh attack against anyone who even propose reasonable hypotesis that includes speculation about the paris attack. I understand and I'm on the side of everyone condemning the bad manners, the search for "visibility" or complete lack of sensibility, but I don't see any support for the right way to do it. After all, this is a conspiracy forum where people are supposed to voice some "outrageous" opinions if taken from the viewpoint of mainstream media.

So what is the crossing point? Is it a problem of time (so the "too soon" issue) or in every single case we must wait for facts to be established before being able to have a civil discussion or even argue about some hypotesis?
I am a relatively new participating member, but I've been a rather long time reader and I often feel myself guilty for just wanting to post some concerns about hot topics for instance:
- you can't literally "touch" militaries because many people here, are or have been such and they are sure they know better and you aren't entitled to have an opinion wich isnt to support them;
- you can't touch any subject regarding Israel behaviour because you are automatically an anti-semite;
- you can't use some sources because in the past they have been exposed as lying;
- you can't touch any "debunked" theory or fact because it has already been debunked regardless if the debunking was debatable.

I'd say that for some hot topic it might be better to have some kind of special participation thread, if you are too close, too involved, too sensible to the subject (due to time, closeness or beliefs) you better not participate to not provoke extreme behaviour from either side pro or against, otherwise anything that happens "now" and involves speculation can't be discussed at all until things aren't anymore hot.

I have starred the OP because I feel it describes perfectly the behaviour of those exhibitionists that shouldnt be allowed. However I can't feel satisfied completely if the subject doesn't include free hate that is often expressed in a much generalized way when these topics are indeed hot. I often come on this site to learn more about something and I sometime feel I can't do any question because I'm gonna be tagged as an anti-something. This isn't fair and is not productive for the discussion. Sometimes you may be wrong, but it doesnt mean you are irrespectful.

a reply to: Hefficide

I'm going to make a recipe thread now hahah....thx heff

a reply to: JUhrman

I think another problem is what conspiracy it is though....some people believe in the jfk conspiracy and some don't....some beleieve in aliens and some don't...some believe 9 11 was an inside job and some don't.

There is plenty of circumstantial evidence that all 3 are true conspiracies yet is it enough to prove them? Some say yes some say no...but if someone comes forward with a theory on one of those that another person doesn't support then it instantly gets attacked. I personally don't believe sandy hook was a conspiracy at all yet ive seen some great threads on it showing circumstantial evidence that it was.(few, but some)

Then later we see those threads pushed to LOL....its the same with the mars rocks. Ive seen so many mars rocks threads pushed to the bin or hoax or lol when really there are some interesting rocks. It is almost like they should post it in science and technology and just call it a weird rock to let the thread live. Is there a possibility of a past civilization on Mars? Sure...is it likely...absolutely not in my opinion. Yet when someone posts a rock that looks a toilet or something weird it must be a LOL 404ed, because people will laugh at us?

I guess maybe we need a better line to see what passes and doesn't pass. I agree ive seen some crazy crap on here, but id argue that 90% of the psychic threads/short stories/religious threads are complete crap and just as bad as the crazy theories that pop up.

originally posted by: rockpaperhammock

originally posted by: Hefficide
a reply to: rockpaperhammock

Creativity is fiction. When dealing in realities one doesn't create truth, one discerns it.

Out of the box analysis of fact and coming to conclusions that are potentially possible is one thing, but creating theories from gut feelings or personal opinion that something is "just not right" is speculation.

Speculation is fine - right up until it reaches the point where it begins to harm others directly.

I totally agree...there has to be some facts there...but ive seen quite a few threads of facts and someone just comes up with an idea..that could be possible and i watch the thread the die with people who say its not possible when it is...even
in a tiny way. I can't believe how many religious threads we have aroudn here that dont get taken down...I mean we had 3 freaking religious threads on how god is light...there are no facts there...yet 3 threads stand. You don't see me running in there and yelling that its not possible...because hey...maybe it is...but there are no facts in those yet they stand.

There are 5 rant threads on the front page of ats right now...that should show us the state of this site.

This is what happens when you introduce even the slightest bit of censorship/excessive moderation. For all GLPs faults, the open exchange of ideas & opinions is undeniable.

a reply to: Eunuchorn

I believe the word exchange is a bit exaggerated. From all I've seen there it's mainly people expressing their opinion and explaining why everyone else is wrong

originally posted by: JUhrman
a reply to: Eunuchorn

I believe the word exchange is a bit exaggerated. From all I've seen there it's mainly people expressing their opinion and explaining why everyone else is wrong

LoL, point very well taken. However, I find exposure to others peoples opinions the most valid truth of all. ATS seems too concerned with being politically correct & "staying on topic".

a reply to: JUhrman

But if you are looking for truth, leave this place and search inside yourself.

Truth comes easier if people share and OPENLY discuss, even wild thoughts have a place. Throughout history some of the wildest have proved to be the true.

What I hate is people telling others their own freely chosen topic of discussion should be kept quiet as it somehow embarasses them even though supposedly they are not involved in the discussion...
Oh but wait, usually they do make themselves a part of it and then complain!

I find it more embarrassing that some people feel some subjects should be closed and off limits even on websites that are supposed to covering such subjects. People who want to tell others what is and what is not a conspiracy because guess what they want to dictate which is allowable which is stupid and which is not.....the Gods that have spoken!