Want to Protect the Conspiracy Theorist Community? Start (Loudly) Denying Ignorance and Lunacy.

a reply to: burdman30ott6

Well, we all are left standing around looking like asses and every negative, insulting barb the mainstream casts at us looks to be well placed in the eyes of the rest of the world.

Especially if they have people trolling the internet making ridiculous claims on alternative websites for that very reason.

Heff said:

And I'll add this: Damn the TV networks for being in such a rush to get the "scoop" that they tend to air unverified rumors without fact checking. By the time they retract or update? Well the YouTubers have already taped and documented this as "proof" of something nefarious when the only thing it does prove is that reporters should have more judgment than they currently do.

Maybe they are doing that on purpose.

a reply to: JUhrman

You deny ignorance by looking at all options, not by blocking out some and allowing others through. That's how people get stuck in paradigms. Selective reasoning.

You make a point I respect and value... I don't agree with it but it doesn't mean I shouldn't respect and value your input... no matter what you say or your level of knowledge (not a dig, a generalisation).

So why can't we respect and value all opinons on here and address them accordingly in public with words... not an iron curtain.

There's no point in carrying on here.. I accept your views, I value your input. ATS is changing, from the censorship of conspiracies, the public NLBS videos berating reptilians to the new breed of members who have come here since it started changing. As sad as it is part of me is sad to see this happening but everything in the public domain goes this way.

Good luck denying ignorance... you're going to need it here by the looks of things.

S & F. Thanks for posting OP, it is a subject that should be discussed, if the ATS community is to evolve/survive and grow. I rarely post anymore and when I do its usually on a social level in a lighthearted way, flags and stars are irrelevant to me. As a public forum it is inevitable that all sorts of people will visit, some to learn, some to debate some to troll and some just to gauge the mood of alternative viewpoints.

I believe that censorship would be counter productive and a greater focus on community among serious members will naturally allow the cream to rise to the top.

I'm not explaining myself very well (need more coffee!) but despite all the idiotic knee-jerk posters and bandwidth wasters I believe that ATS has a very valuable and important role to play in the world and should be protected. There are lots of members here whom I respect hugely and even if I don't agree with their views I can enjoy and respect their debating methods. I think that what the OP is exasperated with is the method of debate and not simply the views held.

We as a community must stay the path and Deny Ignorance using reasoned debate and crucially to form (and change) opinions based on intelligent research and an open mind.

In a thread yesterday Skeptic Overlord wrote of his disappointment that a thread he authored descended into awfulness and he regretted posting it.
This showed two important facts about ATS.
(1) The internet has trained many people to not think critically nor debate civilly and we can't prevent that.
(2) The site owner hasn't lost faith in the intelligence of the core community he has founded here and that gave me hope.

So what's the solution? We must not give up, when I see the behavior that the OP talks about I liken it to sifting through a mountain of crap in the hope (which is often rewarded) of finding a diamond.

Therefore it is up to the determined true ATS people, those who come to learn and to critique and to find truth in a fog of lies to remain steadfast, respectful and true to themselves. Simply ignore those who post unsubstantiated rubbish and they will soon learn that screaming one liners doesn't get you listened to, but a theory/viewpoint (no matter how crazy) will be given space if put forward in a calm well thought out post with facts/hypotheses to back it up. Trolls exist purely to provoke a reaction, no reaction cuts off their oxygen and they get bored and vanish like a fart in a hurricane.
Gratitude to the moderators on ATS who do a great job and get involved as members, thanks for all your unseen work that nobody gets to witness akin to steering a barrel down rapids.

Some seriously intelligent and decent people in this community from which I have made some great friends and learned much from. It is in many interests to discredit the 'Conspiracy Theorist' as a crazy lunatic and it is important to those of us who are proud to be one to rise above it by being rational, critical and civil in our curiosity and quest to deny ignorance.

As the world falls into an ever polarising and darkening void, it is more important than ever to step up and protect our community and its valuable role in today's (mis) information laden world.

All the above could be summed up in one sentence (The miracle of coffee eh!)
"It often ain't what you say......its the way that you say it."

Maybe none of this is real and you are just actors and I'm on TV right now. All these movies like Truman Show and The Game are hints left for me to find out about the truth.

a reply to: and14263

I explained in this thread I'm not new. I've been in the CT world for more than 15 years.

I understand your view, and I respect it too, but there is a difference between having a debate and people claiming things out of habit, not because they have info about it.

If people want to discuss false flag, they can bring info supporting it.


Automatically assuming everything is lies is a sign of a unhealthy mind. I personally experienced where such thinking leads to in the end.

I'm repeating myself, but a good mental health and a critical mind are too precious to be wasted for the thrill of discussing a good old scary conspiracy just for the kick of it. Starting to believe in conspiracies is never without consequences, so choose wisely when to do so.

a reply to: JUhrman

This is a crucial point.

This is a site for the serious discussion of important topics, ranging from conspiracy related, to political matters. There are forums on the site for swapping campfire ghost stories, and it is to those forums which I would direct anyone intent, despite the reasonable demands for sense and decency, to post this nonsense. At least if we place these ill thought out and badly researched suggestions there, then they will be related to the fiction that they are, rather than the genuine commentary and debate which takes place on the rest of the site.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Is that not what the Skunkworks forum is for, Crazy proofless speculation?

Another point on this is that I have noticed it is very often people that disaprove that take such threads and create monsters out of them.

For every post supporting an idea there might be 5 pointing out how it is wrong driving up the hits and flags giving it more and more exposure.

If no one argues against the point then the thread quickly dies and everybody moves on.

originally posted by: JUhrman
Maybe none of this is real and you are just actors and I'm on TV right now. All these movies like Truman Show and The Game are hints left for me to find out about the truth.

The Matrix and "The Allegory of the Caves" in The Republic of Plato.

Yah, move along…

a reply to: nonspecific

The Skunkworks as I understand it, is for discussion of topics which have no proofs associated with them, not topics which the OP has bluntly failed to do any research on what so ever. There is a significant difference between bandwagon group think, which is bad for society as a whole, not to mention bad for the site, and out of the box theorising by people who have really applied themselves to the task of formulating a solid theory, but lack the backing of known facts in their suggestions.

MODs you have the power.
I dont believe you should be doing alot of deleting but you can exile whatever ops to the
"Even we think this is crazy" Forum. Keep it off the front page.
Make those topics earn their way to daylight.
Moderators, you have the power.

There's a reason why the number of people visiting ATS on as regular basis has fallen in recent years and why a number of prolific contributers have disappeared.

Sometimes people say "enough is enough."

a reply to: burdman30ott6

"Anything could be a conspiracy but everything isn't a conspiracy."

I think some may be missing the point here. There is absolutely wrong with investigating conspiracies. Take 9/11 - was there government involvement? Was it an inside job? Is there any evidence to support or deny? etc, etc. That is what it should be about.

What it shouldn't be is wild, unfounded accusations, harrasing people, etc. I apologise because i am not sure who said it on page 1 but they are correct - conspiracy investigation should basically be scientific: hypothesis, method for investigation (including sources), results and conclusions.

When this crosses to questionning whether or not a live event is even taking place, people need to start taking a long hard look at themselves....

originally posted by: and14263
It's a conspiracy site.

Let the threads run their course... opinions put forward by intelligent people like you should sway the readers. You don't need censorship.

You shouldn't tell people what to start threads about but you should go on their threads and put your opinion across to convince them and others it's drivel.

Place is going tits up.

Well said....it pisses me off when posts like the ops comes out ... basically ats has turned into nothing more than reprinting main stream news articles...I can go to yahoo or msn or wherever for that. The mainstream articles get posted and everyone agrees on it. Then some creative thinker comes across putting out a non popular thread on some trend he noticed about several stories and everyone dismisses them as crazy or "they need a break from the site" .....just ignore it then. I come here for those unique threads. Sure maybe 1 in 10 are really something to be impressed with but its the only thing ats puts forward at this point. Hell id argue almost every religious thread on here should be in the LOL forum but thats just my opinion. I don't go bash every religious thread cause I don't agree with it.

This site is becoming crap because its just another mainstream news outlet now that doesn't even have its own journalists.

a reply to: TrueBrit

This suggestion alone solves about everything....if this stuff was in skunkworks its a problem solved! Thats what that forum is for...crazy conspiracies! I like reading the crazy theories people come up with.

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

As my post, to which you responded, makes clear, there is a difference between a well researched but otherwise ill evidenced theory, and bunk created for the purpose of bandwagon jumping. The issues dealt with in this thread, are rather more the latter than the former.

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

I thought it was clear that the OP and many others made a clear distinction between what is basically speculation resulting from a reasoning that can clearly be explained, illustrated and supported (which is perfectly normal in a site like this), and people who are being contradictory just for the sake of proving they somehow think differently.


What is at play here is the truth, not the egos of some who think they are better just because they say everything on TV is a lie.

If someone can't make a distinction between conspiracy talk for personal entertainment and conspiracy talk for finding out the truth, he's part of the problem because all he does is adding to the confusion. Some subforums are for entertainment and wild speculations, in the others, people are expected to be critical and willing to find the truth.


Claiming that the events currently taking place in France are a false flag when you comfortably sit on the other side of the globe and can't even understand French and read French media is just a proof you are either an idiot, either paranoid, either someone who's not taking this seriously. I'm not saying you are, but many people on this board are like this.

3 salafists are currently on the loose a few hundreds km from me, shooting people, throwing grenades, taking hostages. Everyone here is as shocked as Americans during 9/11, and yet some American smart pants on this site are talking like they know more about all this than me? How am I supposed to react? By saying it like it is, either they are idiots, either they are paranoid, either they are trolls, and neither should be encouraged to post.

Well the two killers from the newspaper just got shot. But maybe someone here can tell me more about this and how it's not actually happening?

I give it five years tops and ATS will no longer even bear the moniker "conspiracy site" it will just be another mainstream media re-hash factory. Mark. My. Words.

a reply to: rockpaperhammock

Creativity is fiction. When dealing in realities one doesn't create truth, one discerns it.

Out of the box analysis of fact and coming to conclusions that are potentially possible is one thing, but creating theories from gut feelings or personal opinion that something is "just not right" is speculation.

Speculation is fine - right up until it reaches the point where it begins to harm others directly.