Obama to propose 2 free years of community college

Honestly, this program won't work well. Lots of people when they make the transition to college simply fail out and need some time before taking it seriously. On top of that people often times switch majors which makes a large number of the classes they took wasted. Throw in the fact that the colleges will use this as an excuse to raises prices further and everyone loses. Free college only works when the government is also regulating the price of college. If we're not going to do that, then the best thing we can do is get the government out of the funding game and make the colleges actually compete on price again. What we're seeing now is that with more money being given to students the colleges simply find new ways to charge for more.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
You NEED these credits to graduate, so you have to take something. Therefore it reasons that the students taking classes like Star Trek Philosophy are racking up similar debt levels as someone (with the same major) taking Intro to Logic 101 instead.

Most of these classes are just writing and debate classes where you're choosing the overarching subject. They're not the most serious subjects but they still tackle actual skills.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
Heff, I absolutely see the benefit... but man I don't see how this is going to get paid for nor do I see the current system working well enough to warrant extending it.

We're already paying for it. The feds are providing the money for student loans, those loans are engineered to default, and largely aren't being repaid.

originally posted by: Aleister
a reply to: burdman30ott6

34 billion dollars? A drop in the bucket compared to military spending (granted, a large drop). I think it's a wonderful idea, and has the potential to change the face of American education. Go O!

This absolutely True! It is so interesting that some folks go on about Welfare people being targeted to pay for this instead. Blame the Welfare people, but may God forbid we take the money away from more stupid warfare and foreign aid! It is more important for America to give education money away to foreign countries! Such thinking seems typical of what watching too much Fox News can do to people's minds.

a reply to: Aazadan

Using that logic, what is the point of the K-12 public school system?

Education is key to the survival of a country.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Khaleesi

Have you been to college? All students HAVE is free time. They don't need any more time during the day freed up. As far as the cost goes, why does it matter? They are spending their money to pay for the course. Right now that money is a loan that has a high chance of not being paid back. If we got government uninvolved with the student loan game then maybe students would be a bit more discerning with which courses they spend their money on. Though that's advocating personal responsibility. Can we handle that?

Yes, Indeed! Of course they should be paying for their tuition. If the government subsidized this, that would mean Pakistan might get less in Foreign Aid. What America needs is to pay for more of their personal responsibility and a more generous Foreign Aid policy!

originally posted by: macman
a reply to: jrod

It has everything to do with money. Honestly, there is no wonder why you don't have any. Your train of thought is the epitome of this generational thinking.

"Well, we spent $100 on shoes. We might as well spend another $100 on a watch. Can't go about without a watch." All the while taking in $50 for that month.

Oh, here is a secret.....we can't afford any of those things you listed as your groundwork.


Tax money is not the Govt money. It was taken from a taxpayer first.

Yes, redistribution of existing revenue and budgets is out of the question. The last thing America should do is adopt any policy that may take Foreign Aid from Pakistan. Reducing Foreign Aid is completely Unaffordable.

originally posted by: neo96

Besides free higher education would go against the Republican agenda of keeping everyone stupid.

Truth be told the LEFT doesn't want smart people.

Just like they don't want successful people.

They would essentially wipe out their base.

I'm part of "the left", allow me to enlighten you: our base consists of intelligent, well educated people. That mostly live very succesful lives. Don't take my word for it - instead read what the London School of Economics and Political Science had to say on it.

Now, BECAUSE our base is smart we value education. So, we're mostly in favour of collectively funded education. That way all that have talent can get an education. Hence increasing our base.

So, actually, it's just the other way around: the left WANT smart people, we want succesful people (not to be confused with 'filthy rich people') and a collectively funded high quality educational system actually INCREASES the left wing base.

Hence, many right-wingers are against collectively funded education.

originally posted by: ForteanOrg

I'm part of "the left", allow me to enlighten you: our base consists of intelligent, well educated people. That mostly live very succesful lives. Don't take my word for it - instead read what the London School of Economics and Political Science had to say on it.

Now, BECAUSE our base is smart we value education. So, we're mostly in favour of collectively funded education. That way all that have talent can get an education. Hence increasing our base.

So, actually, it's just the other way around: the left WANT smart people, we want succesful people (not to be confused with 'filthy rich people') and a collectively funded high quality educational system actually INCREASES the left wing base.

Hence, many right-wingers are against collectively funded education.

LOL, wow, talk about "Next Level BS"... There are many smart, and well educated people who are conservative, Republican, Constitutionalists, etc, etc which fall on the right of political ideology. We also value education, but what we are against is the indoctrination BS that you call education which is part of the worldwide progressive agenda. Having a degree doesn't make a person a leftwinger, this just shows how absurd and ignorant your argument is.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: Aazadan

Using that logic, what is the point of the K-12 public school system?

Education is key to the survival of a country.

Wait, do you mean the K-12 public school system that taught you that in communism there is no need for an economy? Is that the sort of "education that is key to the survival of a country" in your opinion?...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

We also value education, but what we are against is the indoctrination BS that you call education which is part of the worldwide progressive agenda.

Indoctrination like evolution? How many of those Anti-progressive "intellectuals" are asking that creationism be taught beside evolution as an equally probable scientific theory?

originally posted by: windword

Indoctrination like evolution? How many of those Anti-progressive "intellectuals" are asking that creationism be taught beside evolution as an equally probable scientific theory?

Indoctrination about Anthropogenic climate Change being a fact, "Common Core" which is global in nature and it's not only happening in the U.S. indoctrination, which is even coming from "supposed" well respected academies such as West point which released a few papers claiming that "the leftwing ideology is the only way to move forward" and that what are called "rightwing" ideoloies are a threat to the nation... etc, etc, etc... The indoctrination in many colleges that are teaching the lies that socialism and communism are the best socio-political systems in the world, etc, etc... That sort of indoctrination.

As for the "indoctrination of evolution", not too long ago the Huffintongpost posted an article about the intent of quite a few atheists and "transhumanists' to make it illegal to teach children the religion of their parents, and to instead teach them the ideologies that the "leftwinger atheists and transhumanists want to impose on every child...

...
Not surprisingly, some in the atheist and transhumanist communities feel the same way Mr. Knights does. While they may think that believing in a warmongering prophet, or a four-armed blue deity, or a spiteful God who drowns nearly all of his people is wrong, atheists and transhumanists are willing to allow it. So long as it doesn't meaningfully interfere with the world.

The problem is that it does meaningfully interfere with the world. 911 was a religious-inspired event. So was the evil of the Catholic Inquisition. And so is the quintessential conflict between Palestine and Israel. If you take "God" and "religion" out of all these happenings, you would likely find that they would not have happened at all. Instead, what you'd probably find is peaceful people and communities dedicated to preserving and improving life through reason, science, and technology--which is the essence of transhumanism and the outcome of evolution.
...

www.huffingtonpost.com...

How easy do leftwingers forget that atheism has caused most of the genocide in the modern world. From the 1930s Red Terror in Spain in which tens of thousands of people, including priests, religions people who would admit to being religious, and capitalists were executed by the majority of socialists and leftwingers of Spain... Then there are the attrocities of atheist communists by which 110 million -160 million people were executed/murdered, and millions more imprisoned for daring to go against the socialist/communist mandates...

Kind of ironic that these people want to ban parents teaching their own children about religion, but many of those tranhumanists and atheists want to impose their ideology on the children of OTHER PEOPLE...

This is the report from West Point...

By Rowan Scarborough - The Washington Times - Thursday, January 17, 2013

A West Point think tank has issued a paper warning America about “far right” groups such as the “anti-federalist” movement, which supports “civil activism, individual freedoms and self-government.”

The report issued this week by the Combating Terrorism Center at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, N.Y., is titled “Challengers from the Sidelines: Understanding America’s Violent Far-Right.”

The center — part of the institution where men and women are molded into Army officers — posted the report Tuesday. It lumps limited government activists with three movements it identifies as “a racist/white supremacy movement, an anti-federalist movement and a fundamentalist movement.”

The West Point center typically focuses reports on al Qaeda and other Islamic extremists attempting to gain power in Asia, the Middle East and Africa through violence.

But its latest study turns inward and paints a broad brush of people it considers “far right.”

It says anti-federalists “espouse strong convictions regarding the federal government, believing it to be corrupt and tyrannical, with a natural tendency to intrude on individuals’ civil and constitutional rights. Finally, they support civil activism, individual freedoms, and self government. Extremists in the anti-federalist movement direct most their violence against the federal government and its proxies in law enforcement.”


The report also draws a link between the mainstream conservative movement and the violent “far right,” and describes liberals as “future oriented” and conservatives as living in the past.

“While liberal worldviews are future- or progressive -oriented, conservative perspectives are more past-oriented, and in general, are interested in preserving the status quo.” the report says. “The far right represents a more extreme version of conservatism, as its political vision is usually justified by the aspiration to restore or preserve values and practices that are part of the idealized historical heritage of the nation or ethnic community.”
...

www.washingtontimes.com...

If anyone is a threat it is this progressive movement funded by the globalists.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

We also value education, but what we are against is the indoctrination BS that you call education which is part of the worldwide progressive agenda.

Indoctrination like evolution? How many of those Anti-progressive "intellectuals" are asking that creationism be taught beside evolution as an equally probable scientific theory?

Dept. of Education study: Catholic H.S. Students Twice as Likely to Graduate College

Students who attended Catholic high schools were approximately twice as likely as students who attended public high schools to go on and graduate from college, according to a new report from the U.S. Department of Education’s National Center for Education Statistics.

According to the report, 61.9 percent of Catholic high school students went on to earn a bachelor’s degree or higher by the time they were 8 years out of high school. By contrast, only 31.1 percent of public school students had gone on to earn a bachelor’s degree or higher.

Hmmm.

a reply to: xuenchen

Why do Catholics believe in evolution?

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: xuenchen

Why do Catholics believe in evolution?

I don't know.

Because they want to maybe?

Obama to propose 2 free years of community college

There is no such thing as a free lunch ... or a free college education.
Someone has to pay for it. And in this case he'd just whack the middle class
hard working people with higher taxes to pay for it. Or he'd nail corporations
with higher taxes and those corporations would turn around and charge more
for their products/services and the middle class would again end up
paying for it.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Your point is?

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
LOL, wow, talk about "Next Level BS"...

Sure, one can label anything - true or false - to be BS according to ones own beliefs. But that does not make it BS. BS would be if I had failed to post proof. But I did post proof. Where is yours?

There are many smart, and well educated people who are conservative

Certainly. I haven't disputed that nor will I ever! But it is simply a fact that they are GENERALLY not as smart (as in: able to learn) as left-wingers. Let's face it: I am a left-winger but I might well be much dumber than say George Bush or another high-level abstract right-wing thinker like that.

Having a degree doesn't make a person a leftwinger, this just shows how absurd and ignorant your argument is.

That was not my argument at all. I roughly said the opposite: that the AVERAGE leftwinger has a slightly better chance to get a degree as his IQ is ON AVERAGE roughly 10 points higher than that of the AVERAGE right winger.
I can't deny facts, they are just that: facts.

It is an interesting thought though: would a person that has a slightly lower IQ and a rightwing orientation change world orientation during his education? Or, in other words: does it require proper education to be fond of solidarity, cooperation, equality and dignity? Might be an interesting topic for a researcher.,.

originally posted by: theMediator
You people that are against this free education disgust me!

It's not free.

Maybe Obama should spend the time and money fixing the inner city public schools and attitudes so that the people who would use a "free" community college degree could actually get in and pass a college course.

High School Drop Out Rates

SAT Scores Fall as Most Test Takers Miss College Benchmark

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I think this sounds like a good program, but expensive. Obama mentions it would be available for those "willing to work for it," but what does that mean? Of course, this provides hope for many out there.

a reply to: FlyersFan

I was going to post that high schools don't provide as good of an education as they have in the past. Public schools need some work, then maybe people who graduate will be ready for community college.

It seems to me like focusing on repairing the current high school education should be done before free community college, but the problem is the certificate is all that matters, not the quality of the education - so giving out free community college is better for people looking for work than getting a quality education earlier on.

You know what kind of job that 2 years of college gets you? 10 bucks working at Burger King. How about providing 2 years of TRADE SCHOOL for those who do not go off to college. I had 2 plumbers come to my house, and I think they charged me 240 bucks an hour, so I bet you they are not doing too bad.