Insult my Religious beliefs, Go ahead...!

a reply to: elysiumfire

the process of the enlightenment period started when a higher critic named frederick wolfe, thought he found a discrepancy in dates in a volume attributed to homer. as a result, he wrote a critical work called the problem with homer (i forget the official title). in it, he detailed his theory that the ancient greeks couldn't write when it was said that their ancient histories, epics and annals were written.

what happened next, resulted in every available ancient record, except the papal interpretation of the bible, being thrown into the waste basket of history. all ancient documents that had prior been listed as possible paper trails for past events, were removed from the main body of the history texts and added as footnotes in which they were referred to as inaccurate and therefore, based on mythology. and this included every ancient text they had available at the time, except the papal works on the subject of biblical text (the bible was still stashed away in the basement, chained to the wall, written in latin)

well this went full circle as it became a feeding frenzy of ancient documents of every conceivable kind. then one day an enterprising young lad noticed there was no longer any historical support for the biblical texts either. and so, it joined the ranks of mythology.

frederick wolfe was wrong, but it wasn't discovered for 40 years, much too late to save ancient history from the mythology shelf

undo:

The process of the enlightenment period started when a higher critic named frederick wolfe, thought he found a discrepancy in dates in a volume attributed to homer.

Thanks for the clarification and further elaboration.

The age of Enlightenment started earlier than Wolff (Christian Wolff - whom I assume you are referring to?), and it came about from a cumulative effect of investigations by various rationalists questioning the orthodoxy of the era, around 1650.

A number of natural philosophers, particularly Newton, but also including Spinoza, Descartes, and Leibniz (whose aquiantance and philosophy Wolff was influenced by), wrote great treatises that ushered in the Age of Enlightenment, emboldening other natural philosophers to add their own thoughts and thinking. They still accepted the concept of God, being earlier Deists, but eventually drove a wedge between rational thinking and the continued acceptance of religious orthodoxy.

Religion as the dominant force of control began to lose its power.

a reply to: elysiumfire

and it all started when greek history was tossed. the fewer documents considered legit, the less support for surviving documents. snow ball effect.

undo:

...it all started when Greek history was tossed. the fewer documents considered legit, the less support for surviving documents. snow ball effect.

Your understanding of this is greater than mine, I'd need to research what you're telling me for me to advocate an agreement. I've no reason not to support you on this at this moment

a reply to: elysiumfire

i mean, as regards the ancient texts, not as regards the science and other features of the enlightenment. i dunno which came first, only that the subject we were discussing (the confusion on the subject of other ancient world views) stems from that event.

for example, the book of enoch was not included in the protestant bible. neither was the apocrypha (which the catholic bible contained). yet jesus quoted a passage from the book of enoch or at least mentioned a passage from it, in the new testament. (don't quote me on that, i'm a bit sketchy now about it as it has been awhile since i studied that, and newer info has pushed older info out my other ear , to make room. hehe)

undo:

...the book of Enoch was not included in the Protestant Bible. neither was the Apocrypha (which the Catholic Bible contained). yet Jesus (allegedly) quoted a passage from the book of Enoch, or at least mentioned a passage from it, in the New Testament.

It's not hard to understand why Christianity ended up fracturing into disparate groups of 'new' interpretations from excised or discarded papyri texts that the Catholic orthodoxy deemed inappropriate for their view. The fracturing emphasises the distrust held by other Christian thinkers towards Catholic dogma and creed.

Islam, too, endured a schism with the Qu'ran becoming the final revealed scripture for Islam to be accepted 'truth' against the older Torah. The schism for Islam did not stop at the birth of the Qu'ran, however. Islamic fundamentalists, like Christian fundamentalists, warped and twisted the mythology to suit their own ideological view of God, Jesus, and Allah.

a reply to: elysiumfire

oh i'm a reformed christian fundie. but i still hold some fundie views. not many, but some. i know all about it and why it ends up being interpreted as it does. for example, one of the problems with including enoch into the protestant bible is that the text says the offspring of the watchers and human women, were 300 els tall, which works out to be so tall, they wouldn't be able to stand erect on the planet due to gravity, not to mention, the only tall bones being found, were dinosaur bones and emerging science did not know what to make of them at the time. since luther and his compadres were beginning to appreciate science, i'm pretty sure that colored their view of enoch as "god breathed" type text. they were after accuracy, ya know.

here's a quote from a website that appears to have done a bit of research on the problem

In Enoch 8:8 we read, “And they have gone into the daughters of men upon the earth, and have slept with the women, and have defiled themselves, and revealed to them all kinds of sins. And the women have borne giants, and the whole earth has thereby been filled with blood and unrighteousness.” In Enoch 7:2 it is said these giants measured “3,000 ells”. An ell is equivalent to 45” x 3,000 = 135,000” or 11,250’, roughly 2.13 miles tall. Another verse states they were 300 cubits tall or 450 feet (600' if using Jewish cubit measurements). This seems more reasonable, as it's a little over a quarter mile tall.

judahsdaughter.hubpages.com...

you get the impression that they had already discovered dinosaur bones and confused the bones with an even older story of abduction of the women. so a quasi historical text, trying to relate ancient history mixed with newer data, that wasn't entirely understood. either that, or the entire event happened on a different planet/earth. i'm just not terribly convinced that a human woman could give normal birth to something that was destined to grow to be a quarter of a mile tall.

I think these extremist people just lack a properly working sense of humor gene in their DNA. If you can't sit back every once in a while and laugh, at yourself, your beliefs, heck, the whole world... you WILL go insane. It's been proven.

Well, to be honest Undo, having read your last post, I would suggest to you to take a step back and view the information you convey in your post very very objectively, as it should be ringing alarm bells in your reason and logic. The fallacy of that scripture is more than apparent for any one to see...it is extremely stark.

a reply to: SLAYER69

It seems to me these days you can say anything bad you want as long as it's anti-Christian but not anti-Muslim! I have noticed more and more people calling the Bible fairy tales, etc.
If one does indeed read the Bible, Revelations is like watching the news! (it even says there would be more and more naysayers as well!!)
I find myself trying hard to find any redeeming things to say about Islamic faith! You don't hear leaders of that faith condemning what happened in Paris!
Did you hear about the blogger in Saudi Arabia that 'dared' to say something about freedom of religion in his blog and he was sentenced to 10 years in prison plus 1000 lashes (he got the 1st 50 this week and will have 50 a week till they reach 1000!)
Seems like a loving, caring religion to me!
It's time we looked at who our allies are and what they REALLY stand for!

originally posted by: SLAYER69
After pondering the latest incident...


I've come to the conclusion that many so called "Believers" simply don't have real Faith. Now, this isn't singling any one group out just pointing out the obvious.


If you're like me *a person of Faith, there's no need to kill those who think or believe differently.

None!

If, in my opinion, your Religious organization advocates killing "Non Believers" I feel we here in the 21st Century have the option to ignore or debate but not kill. If someday, you find yourself hearing hate and instigation for violence by a Priest, Preacher, Rabbi or Cleric being spewed your way it might be time to reconsider your membership in that particular sect/denomination and try Yoga instead.


Just a couple of pennies...

Hey, Slayer!

How about you and me just let our respective gods insult the crap out of each other, and us, you and me, just grab a few bags of pretzels and a case of beer and sit back and watch them go at it?

Now THAT would be entertainment, and probably pretty nonviolent to boot!

a reply to: nenothtu

God deathmatch the winner takes humanity! I like it.

My dosh is on Hanuman the monkey god...he can grow as big as a mountain and eat suns.

originally posted by: Logarock

When the cops in France corner these dudes are they going to be conflicted about such things? No they are going to take them out. Where do they get that authority? Why don't they just let the bad guys go and turn the other cheek?

Here's the difference - a difference probably lost on the more combatively-minded...

Those cops are Frenchmen, not Christians. God doesn't have much need for cops or bodyguards for Itself. They didn't fight or kill on behalf of a deity, they fought and killed on behalf of other Frenchmen who were unable to fight and kill on their own behalf.

See the difference there? It's in who they are fighting and killing for. Religion hasn't anything to do with their actions.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: JimNasium

That Lillith chick sounds right up my street she still with Sama-el? or?.

This is supposed to be a picture of her

You might wanna watch out for those toenails in the middle of the night. I'd look into getting her a set of nail clippers if I were you...

originally posted by: ausername

Which is worse, those who kill because their faith demands it, or those who kill because their government demands it?

The ones who kill because their god demands it are the worse of the two, of course.

They're not using the brains they claim their god gave them to figure out that "hey, if this deity needs ME to do his killing for him, then maybe he's not the deity - I'm obviously more powerful than he is, 'cause he can't do his own killing and needs me to do it, so HE ought to be worshipping ME!"

See?

By the very act of killing in the name of their god, they are also denying the power of their god, and probably his very existence!

How stupid is THAT?

a reply to: nenothtu

She could scratch my back with those...got her number anyone?.

a reply to: nenothtu

That is so true

If their god was all powerful why would he/she command anyone to kill anyone when that god could do it in a blink.

Wish I could give you a bag full of stars for that post .

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: nenothtu

She could scratch my back with those...got her number anyone?.

Plus, she's got those wings, so if you were late for work, she could fly you over the traffic...

But see that thing on her head? I don't think that's a hat - I think that IS her head!