Origin of the Species: The Greys - An Astrobiological Analysis of a Familiar ET Stereotype

a reply to: game over man

Okay, time is NOT a thing. It is a measurement only. It is a measurement of regular occurring instances or events. Let me ask you this, what were the clocks on the space shuttle using as their basis of time? Could have anything in their environment have changed that what the clock was measuring (i.e. reduced gravitational forces, etc.)? Could those clocks use a common reference as clocks on Earth?

The way I see it is that a clock only keeps track of a specific event. Under static conditions these events will manifest in a predictable manner. This is what we call 'time'. Now what happens if the 'measured event' is placed into a different environment at doesn't behave exactly as it did in a previous environment? You will get a different 'measurement' or 'time dilation'. Now if all clocks used an outside event to measure against, then all clocks would, by necessity, measure at the same rate.

Now this brings up the question of Light Speed Travel or LST. It would be true that an astronaut would appear to not have aged as rapidly as non astronauts. This has nothing to do with 'time'. It is due to how chemical reactions and other events take place under differing environments. Our cellular decay would slow down the closer you get to LST. Time itself does not change as measured against as outside force, but it is the environment that changes.

'Time' is not a constant throughout the universe. It can't be. Different environments will produce different measurements. And it must be noted that these events happen in one 'direction' and that is what we call forward. We also need to unshackle our minds of the constraints of 'time'. A 'minute' is no different than an 'inch' or a 'pound'. It is only how we measure the environment around us and make it fit into our oh so human view of the world. As I say, hand me an inch and I will give you a barrel full of minutes.

Well, having read this several times, I find to be a really good post in a lot of ways, especially all the information on planets. That is really terrific work. It lends an enormous amount of credence to those who claim alien visitation.

Where this post really falls short, however, is when she discusses the greys. And there really isn't a lot about the greys themselves in these posts. A lot of speculation about their possible world of origin, some very familiar speculation about their evolution, and that's about it. Very little new information or even speculation that is of any use.

But here's where her analysis fails before it really begins: She ignores that there are perhaps a dozen different species of what we call "greys", differing substantially in anatomy. She very briefly mentions a "tall grey"' but only in passing. And that's about it.

This is a major failure in a posting purporting to be an "analysis" of the greys. This is like writing an analysis of human beings and limiting the discussion to Eskimos. Or perhaps pygmies. Not a useful or accurate overview of the human race. The unfortunate result is shoddy work.

This prevents her from being able to seriously discuss the greys in even basic physiological terms. And it seems to have left her blind to the rigid hierarchical structure that exists between certain different species of greys. All of which limit her understanding of the greys, both physically, and as "social" beings.

But even on a strictly physical analysis, this causes her to fall short of the mark. So when she discusses, for example, the anatomy of the hand of a grey, she misses completely a more common description which is quite radically different than the graphic she posts.

I'm running short of time right now so I must continue this later, but not before I mention another aspect I find extremely problematic:

She states that the greys do not have a "hive mind", and even more incredibly, she states they are not telepathic. This is a completely unfounded conclusion to leap to, given that the greys exist at all.

She bases this entire discussion on witness descriptions of the grey, correct? Then I ask, has there ever been a witness account that did not involve telepathy? Then why cherry pick evidence?

If a witness says " the greys are this tall," or "the greys eyes are like this", jade star uses that information.

But when EVERY witness says "the greys communicate telepathically!" Jade says no they don't.

That's where her work crashes to the ground harder than Roswell.

And she even contradicts herself on this very important issue. She states that the mouth of the greys is vestigial, unused for communication, based on descriptions. Then she says they aren't telepathic, despite every description.

This is what happens when someone who denies the reality of alien contact starts pontificating on aliens. This effort might get a passing grade as a term paper, but it is of no use if you want to understand the greys.

I have a lot of other points to make but must stop here. I do applaud her effort, and I would hate to discourage her. But regarding aliens, she should be learning, not teaching.

a reply to: Scdfa

There are no greys.

a reply to: Scdfa
Ya well. Its all theory you know. Besides from what i read she did not say they were not telepathic, but its likely that any telepathy they had was in the form of technological not an inbuilt part of there physical biology or evolution. You could slice it any way you want, and can add whatever theory you think, because we do not have a actuall gray alien gray to work with. So theories on theories is the gist of it.

Besides, if you look around there are even plenty of animals here on earth which in there own way you could say communicate telepathically. Dolphins for instance communicate using sonar, birds and other can sense the magnetic field of the earth and know were to go as a flock, both birds and dolphins they can even pick up things from far distances. In fact you could say they have a in built bio radio inside there head already, its primitive but it is that in many ways. Now imagine if the dolphin or even birds and that part of it had billions and billions of years more to evolve?

Then yes, even if they made it on land and became bipedal like humans are now, they would likely have a form of communication that does not intrinsically involve shouting air sound waves at each other using there face holes. In fact if they became technologically advanced enough they can apply that part of there biology or recreate vie technology into to something we could possible not imagine. You could even say that, that if they had a technological revolution then the version that they have of things like TV and cellphones would come out and have had evolved out themselfs, they did not create it they recreated it and reversed engineered it into a different medium, and of there basic evolved biology, which they got vie billion and billions of years of good old fashion trial and error evolution. So to them it would not be a big deal at all.

If anything and if there are any real aliens or ancient species. Its pretty much a given that they would likely have some sort of inbuilt evolutionary device for which to communicate to each other over long distances. So yes, it would be a sort of telepathy, and a sort of hive mind. Now imagine what something like the cellphone will do to the mental process of your kids kids, or even 10thousand years from now to people...There way of thinking will be completely different then ours is.

And that is assuming we do not miniaturize the cellphone and stick it directly into the brain long before that. So ya! Telepathy is merely a matter of decoding all the information that you are constantly being bombarded with day in and day out. For all you know all that static which scientists pick up from the beginning of the universe and is still around. Is a language. One which you are not equipped or even capable of understanding. Do not have the right hardware or the software, to sort of say.

a reply to: Scdfa

You make some good points. However OP presented a hypothesis. OP entertained the idea as a skeptic of what could attrubute to the evo of the greys mind you based on description and eye witness testimony. Because that is all we have is hearsay. As I mentioned before there is some conflicting testimony in regards to the origin of these "greys" such as the Hill abduction being Zeta Retuculan. Travis Walton's greys had pupils as well same species ? Maybe maybeb not ( assuming both happened )

This brings me to my point that these beings are bipedal like us that could very well mean bipedal life forms are the "winner" in the grand scheme of things hence several species of grey like aliens in contrast could be confused to be of the same origin. Such as humanoid ET's the tall whites, Nordic's ect that could even pass as one of us in ufo lore. The cosmic soup producing bipedal space faring races by some universal law. If you follow Clifford Stone and his claim of 57 cataloged alien races. What if he is right ?

OP did not fail to deliver however imo. But i agree with you about the telepathy thing. But keep in mind there is some testimony that these beings are synthetic and not fully organic. That could mean the telepathy is from implants or the artificial aspect of these greys. Then the story of botanists having to examine the recovered corpses due to the anatomy is interesting. Greys could come in various forms of evolution in contrast even related as distant cousins or... some fully organic while others artificial forms of themselves. Some in the fringe say they are just avatars being controlled by organics. They could all be genetically altered indifferent formats. But with a common resemblance. Some could be more related to ants others plants and others dolphin or frog or reptile. I can speculate forever. But OP helps lay some framework


One must take everything with a grain of salt and refrain from aproaching this topic religiously. However thought provoking.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Scdfa

There are no greys.

They said that about the mountain gorilla. They said that about the Panda. Up until they were discovered, they were a legend.


With the "greys" there have been far more sightings of them and by reputable people , military brass claiming them to be real. The problem is we just cant send a expidition to the rain forest to find them. That is unless they have bases under ground , in the ocean , on the moon according to folklore. Even that would be a stab in the dark. Because IF they exist it appears they are covert and indifferent to us at least socially. If I wanted to evade mice I could easily arrange it.

Are they real ? - negative

Are they not real ? - negtive

We have no way of knowing one or the other.

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence!"
-- Carl Sagan, Astronomer

a reply to: DarthFazer

And bamm! DartFazer denied ignorance!

I think the OP is very nice. No proof or nothing, because it's no analysis based on tissue and blood samples, or observation of exhibits, but I enjoyed it. Makes it easier to find flaws in the assumptions one holds when you can compare them to the intellectual output of a second brain...

a reply to: JadeStar

I don't know what to say; 'wow' and 'well done' immediately comes to mind but since I can't find a superlative that matches the quality of the thread I'm gonna stick with 'wow, well done.'

What I find fascinating is that the goldilocks zone is widening every day as our knowledge expands-and each exoplanet could have it's own unique environment that produces unique species that are exclusive to that planet. I agree that greys could be amphibious or even reptilian in nature-if it wasn't for the Chixculub impact or other catastrophes the dinosaurs could have remained the dominate species on Earth and maybe they could've continued to evolve and developed sentience.

Perhaps the greys emaciated appearance is due to the reliance on automatons rather than physical labor-humanity is facing the same problem but with the opposite effect, but that is just speculation at this point.

This was a great thread, I can't stress that enough.

They are usually described as being telepathic, although this ability could be the result of non-biological implants. a reply to: JadeStar

a reply to: JadeStar

Bottom Line: If only 1 in 1 Million habitable planets produce civilizations with advanced telescopes then perhaps 2 or 3 nearby civilizations (within 1,000 light years of the Earth) might have detected the Earth and civilization since the dawn of civilization and its constructions of large scale structures visible at interstellar distances. If advanced life and civilization is more common than 1 in a million, say 1 in 100,000 then around 30 nearby civilizations may know that we're here and probably will have known that fact here for a long time

That is indeed impressive. But where are all the signals from those 30 nearby civilizations that may know that we're here and probably will have known that fact here for a long time?

I believe the greys must be the result of genetic engineering. Why not, we can do it. They may only be a version of another life-form, used solely for space travel. Obviously they have FTL travel.
a reply to: Charizard

I speculate that the "Greys" represent a warm blooded dinosauroid race from another star system; sporting three fingered hands and three toed feet.

I would also speculate...that it's impossible for a highly intelligent reptilian humanoid race to exist in our universe --- compared to the biological nature of a cold blooded system that represent reptiles here on earth.

a reply to: JadeStar

Very interesting thread. I'm a little curious as to why bthey would retain features in their hands for uses like swimming or climbing, these would be useful for escaping predators but may make object manipulation more difficult. And it would be safe to assume that they could develop weapons for defense and no longer need to flee predators. So loose these features. I've contemplated the evolution of them before but you did a much better breakdown than what I've thought of.

My opinion about the "Greys" is they're a collective dream, not real in any sense. I've read that dreams might be threat simulations, since so many dreams uncover our own fears. Supposedly, they help(ed) us to discover, untangle and dismantle our fears, possibly benefiting us in real life. I've also read dreams are less and less useful because there're less and less threats to our existence. Lions don't roam the streets and plagues aren't routine. However, I'm not convinced. Anyway, assuming dreams really are a threat simulation, could it be "Greys" are also threat simulations, except they're not something we dream when we're asleep, they're something we dream when we're awake. And we don't just dream about them when we're awake, we COLLECTIVELY do it. It's at least partially instinctive.

The same thing happened when that guy or lady though he/she saw river canals, farms and civilization on Mars. Because of the poor quality of optics and knowledge back then it was all wrong. However, maybe this threat simulation was going on inside that persons mind, and they imagined a civilization on Mars? They weren't alone. Many people wrote fiction about life elsewhere, or otherwise debated the scientific likelihood.

What's the benefit of dreaming about higher intelligences, asleep or not? Well, to some extent, we're preparing ourselves for inevitable contact with other intelligences in the universe. These "dreams" prepare us.

SETI is a more scientific expression of this threat simulation, one which might someday confirm our fears and also open up new worlds.

There's a possibility we never find intelligent life during the course of our life as a species. This doesn't mean our threat simulation was useless. Threat simulations, or dreams, are the result of guesswork.

So what is the Earliest Description DATE... of a Alien Gray ?


I know... Ive Seen Pulp & Digest Magazines showing .. Small Petite Body's with large HEADS and Big EYES !
From the 1920 1930s 1940s 1950s

but what Stood Out For Me is a Comic Called Flying Saucers made in 1967 ...


A Exact Detailed Description of a Alien Gray that People Described back in the 60s to Now !
Even it has the Famous ( Cube Device ) the Box on its Chest

This the Comic



This is MY Comic from my Collection



The Inside Back Cover
Showing Alien Line UP! LOL



A Blow UP The Alien Gray



This is the Inside Font Cover
Showing UFO Shapes



Well Later On Ill Post Those Alien Gray looking Beings from those Old Pulp and Digest Mags from the 1920 to 40s

originally posted by: Parthin
I believe the greys must be the result of genetic engineering. Why not, we can do it. They may only be a version of another life-form, used solely for space travel. Obviously they have FTL travel.
a reply to: Charizard

I like this idea. Yet if we were exclusively made for space travel, why not just send our robotic probes or nanoprobes instead? Why do biological or partially biological beings have to be sent?

In this regard, I agree with one of the posters earlier who stated we could just send probes to the rest of the universe and build elaborate virtual representations of the universe. Instead of sitting through long and expensive interstellar journeys we could just call up the universe program and instantly travel anywhere. Sure, it won't be real, but unless we have a real reason to go there, it's good enough!

I guess it depends how broadly useful robotics and probes become. It might also benefit us to spread out rather than staying in one concentrated place. If war or terrorism occurred, it could mess us up. I also think there's an instinctive need inside us to reproduce and spread our seed across the unvierse. Therein lies the probelm: What if parts of the universe are already owned? Earth is already sectioned off to different people and governments. I don't think there's a stretch of land on our planet not owned by someone or group of someones. So we step out into the richness of space and there's a no trespassing sign! Or worse, a patrol entroute to arrest us!

Continued from my last Post ...


As I Said About Posting Some Aliens Looking Like Grays from SCIFI PULP & Digest Mags

These Pics are from the 1930s Amazing Stories Mag Covers... Alone ...

1930 December


1931 May


1932 March


1939 March




If you Look you will see Other Alien Grays Similar in Different Science Fiction Pulp Mags in the Same ERA...

Just to Note.. These are not those Little GREEN MEN ... LOL ... They are Blue Red or Greyish White ...

a reply to: Wolfenz

Wolfenz, you ask about the earliest date of an encounter with the greys, I know of a case that dates back to the 1920s. That's the earliest I am familiar with. Contrary to popular belief which starts with the Hill incident.

a reply to: jonnywhite

What if parts of the universe are already owned? Earth is already sectioned off to different people and governments. I don't think there's a stretch of land on our planet not owned by someone or group of someones. So we step out into the richness of space and there's a no trespassing sign! Or worse, a patrol entroute to arrest us!

Jonnywhite, this is pretty accurate, actually. This is why we have not been back to the moon in over 40 years.

Excellent effort. Bravo to a future astronomer with a true vision of science as it should be.

My own thoughts are mixed... being a science nerd who's had some truly bizarre experiences... with the paranormal and UFO's.

I know folks who swear and believe with every fiber of their being that they've seen these "grey alien" things. I also know people who've experienced the abduction scenario... the most puzzling one I know of is a very pragmatic woman with no prior knowledge of (or interest in) the pop alien or UFO memes, who saw the cover of Communion when it first came out and had a violent fear reaction and resultant flood of memories of being taken by those things for years... masked as soldiers in her mind at first, who morphed into "greys." She's an in-law and everything... her nature, subsequent actions, etc.... points to her telling the truth... as she knows it. She will not speak of it now and wants no part of it.

I also have parents who saw disk shaped aircraft employing unknown tech in the early 1950's... my father was a colonel in the air force and a pilot and knew what we had and swore to his deathbed that the two craft he saw did not employ known technology and moved in a way contrary to known physics, but seemed manufactured... with windows, structure, etc.

I've seen a wingless, diamond thingy in the 1980's and a large cylinder hanging motionless in strong winds, at an angle, for a number of minutes in broad daylight in the 90's as well as a myriad of "lights in the sky" doing seemingly intelligent maneuvers that not only are impossible using rockets and /or jets, but would've turned any pilot to mush.

So, ignoring for the moment the reams of other anecdotal accounts and some material evidence, it's likely, to me, that something with a higher technological knowledge has been here. Alien? Perhaps.

So this thread is a very decent effort at putting some 'realism' to the phenomena ... but we just don't know enough to be definitive... but there are at least knowledgeable, scientific people willing to look at it... and that's a good thing for those of us yearning for answers, and getting odd looks from most educated, 'normal' folks.