Origin of the Species: The Greys - An Astrobiological Analysis of a Familiar ET Stereotype

Though well laid out, you are missing some important aspects.

1. There is a big difference between a sentient race and a sentient space-faring race.

2. The 'Drake Equation' - i.e. the probability that sentient life can communicate with us in the MW Galaxy needs a quite a few more terms, IF you were to try to apply it to more than just communication from a distance and use it to postulate the likelihood of sentient races becoming space-faring.

3. I'd suggest you also read 'Rare Earth' by Ward and Brownlee. Though there is some debate, it gives you an idea of how rare it would be to find conditions very like those here on Earth and how those conditions might be very important for a sentient race to have.

4. One of the most underestimated factors preventing one sentient race from visiting another is the TIME factor. We might find a sentient race, but by the time we sent a message back and forth a couple times and then headed off to go visit, they might be, in fact it's likely they'd be long dead by the time we got there. To put it another way, to have a coinciding time-line that intersects our ability to be space-faring with theirs such that we or they could visit is going to be very, very, very small.

5. It's very unlikely that any space-faring civilizations will do their exploration in full-sized vehicles. It's just not economically feasible (given what we know, sure, about availability of materials and fuel and societies).

6. It's very unlikely that any space-faring civilizations will want to send MANNED vehicles to visit us 'in person'. Note we are starting to explore and we use small craft and will soon transition to nano-sized craft.

7. Visiting in person takes a lot of time. It would be much quicker and more efficient to build a virtual holographic encyclopedia of the galaxy and visit from the comfort of our own room, and you could hop around the galaxy instantaneously. You'd gather data using probes.

8. Visiting in person has a potential hazard of transmitting exo-biological agents which could be harmful. Much better to visit virtually.

9. Before a sentient, space faring race can go exploring, they have to duplicate their own world (as Stephen Hawking explains) because there is a very real threat of periodic extinctions. You don't want to 'come home' and find your planet sterilized by a gamma-ray burster.

10. Not every sentient race CAN communicate with another race. For example a hive mind might be just too different.

11. Fermi Paradox. Given the age of the galaxy, it should already be linked up and populated by sentient, space faring races.

12. Valuable Real Estate Hypothesis. If there were sentient space-faring beings visiting our Solar System, they wouldn't hide and we'd see blatant evidence of them on those planets and moons that could be terraformed or upon which bases could be built. (I.e. Moon, Mars, Europa). We don't see any evidence of that right now.

13. We don't really know the 'path' of advanced development. Perhaps we're making a mistake and advanced 'beings' do not develop like we see on TV into a Kardashev Type II or III race, but instead 'pop' up into another dimension, making contact with mere three-dimensional beings rather pointless (just like we wouldn't want to contact comic book characters, drawn in 2-D using a printer). So though advanced sentient beings might exist, our paths may not cross due to their evolution into 'something else'.

14. Sparse distribution. If there are, perhaps too few sentient space-faring races, it makes contact very, very unlikely just as a world we might visit that had one microbe per continent would appear to be completely lifeless. It's just too sparse to find each other.

15. Super quarantine forces. There may be other forces, like the Heliosphere, a concentration of charged particles that makes it hard to penetrate into any one solar system. We already have distance, time, radiation, near vacuum, extreme cold as forces of 'quarantine'. There may be others we don't know about.

So while it may still not be impossible for sentient, space faring civilizations to arise and exist in a time frame near to our arising, find us, come in person and exist on our time span (i.e. not be like super fast living, or super slow living creatures) it looks like the odds are against it.

Was a nice read, you definitely put a lot of work into this post.

A few notes:

You attribute the grey's small, skinny bodies to evolving on a planet with higher gravity than the Earth, but wouldn't it be the opposite? If they evolved on a planet with much higher gravity, would you not expect them to have much more robust, thicker, stockier bodies and trunk-like limbs (thinking like elephants, rhinos, etc) to support themselves in the increased gravity? I would think, assuming the species is real and as described with the twig-like arms/legs and neck supporting an oversized head, that their brittle-looking bodies would snap like a twig in a heavy gravity enviroment. Then again, I suppose their bone structure (or whatever such supporting structure they evolved) could be something much more dense and durable than what animals on this planet have. There's also the possibility that they're artificial life forms. Still, I would think their bodies resemble something that would have evolved on a planet with lower gravity or a less-dense atomsphere?

Another thing you pointed out is that the small nostrils may indicate evolution on a planet with much stronger winds. Wouldn't this be a problem for a species with such large eyes? I can imagine a lot of eye irritation and damage for such large peepers from windborn sediment and debris.

The "eyeball Earth" is certainly interesting, but I have to wonder if a species could really evolve to the point the greys are supposedly at on such a world. I know we are but one humble example here on Earth, but just look at the way we fight over and abuse the resources we have. I realize a super Earth is, by definition, much larger than our own Earth, but I can't imagine life being easy when you're confined to a small central ring of habitability around the equatorial region of a planet, no matter how large that world may be. One would think resources and especially realestate would quickly dry up if such a world were inhabited by an intelligent species. Advanced technology would likely require significant landmass to be developed (gotta have dry places to build electronics and machinery after all, and places to mine and process minerals and all of that). I just have trouble believing that a species evolving on an "eyeball planet" would be able to progress to the point of space colonization (which would probably be needed) without blowing themselves into oblivion. But hey, maybe they were always much smarter and more cooperative than us!

One more thing that popped into my head while reading: You mention somewhere in the beginning that interstellar travel is very difficult and as such that makes it unlikely that any species that DID visit us would be doing so with enough frequency to account for the numerous UFO sightings throughout the years. That's assuming a lot of things, such as:

-said species hasn't evolved to the point of being able to use worm hole travel, warp drive or some other "faster than light" type of travel
-Said species doesn't have "interstellar arcs", "city ships", "mother ships" or whatever you want to call them. Massive ships that serve as a mobile world, traveling the stars, hosting generations of offspring. Intergalactic nomads, if you will.
-Said species hasn't established a way point or other-such base-of-operations much closer to Earth so that they may stay within "day trip" distance for observation. Alien moon bases, undersea UFO bases and all of that.

a reply to: Maverick7

1.

There would be. but only after a split and a long time out in space.

2.

Its more highly probable that a sentient species even if they could communicate with us, they would not because it would be pointless or just not worth there time. If they achieved any of that and even a few thousands of years ahead of us, much less millions of years or billions of years. Well it could be like you talking to a tribe of mereekats in the plains.

3.

Yes its always a mistake to assume they would even value our planet. They could not even have evolved from carbon based lifeforms for all we know. In fact they would then be much more durable and in fact could potentially been much more smarter even back in the beginning stages of there evolution. Imagine some creature whos makeup and physiology is based of silicon, such a creature would practically be a many times advanced walking super computer each and every one of them.

4.

If they can come here even from the nearest star and build bases. Well it would be ridiculous not to build basses all over there area or there stretch of the known starchart. So then really time or even extinction would not be as big of a factor, because it would not be one long stretch and go at it. It would be more like a steady expansion, eventually reaching our little backwater world.

If we could colonize space. We would try to do something of the same instead of just heading out into the who knows what. We would start with our own moon, and nearest planets. Then spread out from there, to the next nearest. That is unless you do just bioengineering a sort of body specifically for long range space missions.

5.

Not likely...But not unlikely. If they were so much more advanced then us, ya it could be done. In fact for anything outside there zone they would likely need a pretty big ship to keep everything and everybody going. Those saucers could just be shuttles from zone to zone or from mothership to mothership.

7.

Not likely. Every creature that has evolved has there own set of memetic evolution as well. I mean do you think your cat or dog sees the same thing as you do when your watching TV or how about when your typing on the computer. Technology for all anybody knows may be as personal and distinctfull to each creature as languages are for each different country across the globe.

Even if they had a different language then us that would make sending data pretty much useless. It could even be that the way they interpret light ie actual visual sight may be different then we do. Hence even things as seeing a person on a screen or hologram may appear different. Sometimes drastically so that it could just be static. Or what is seen by them could just be mostly static to us. After all if yo do not know the frequency and do not know how to decode it, even radio signals are just static when sent from one human to another.

So they may send probes at first. After a while if they wanted to get more close and personal they may send a probe that is best suited for that, it could be a machine or even just like you said hologram, but that would mean they already know about us, and have already figured out how to interpret not only our languages but pretty much all else. And if you could do all that, eventually you would want to send something that is familiar to the planet to make contact.

8.

If they can survive in space and come here. All they really need to do is wear a suit. After all it would be prudent.
Visiting virtually may come either before or after known contact, but its likely after me thinks. And after does not have to even mean anybody know about them, just that they know about us and have it figured out. It all just depends on why they would want to do any of that and there goals.

9.

Terraform other planet or basses across there habital zone ya. Or for all we know we could be in there habital zone and our planet could be there goldi locks, and so why bother creating one, when you got one already. It all just depends on advanced they are and how far away they would be from our planet.

10.

Nah it would likely be easier for them as a collective to break through whatever our differences are. If you have a hive space faring race, I doubt even if the individual ones are bots that the collective would be stupid. Or if there some purely instinctual highly advanced hive race. Well then we may be in trouble. I think the problem would not stem from them understanding or communicating us. But us understanding or communicating with them.

11.

Well either there is nobody out there. Or if there out there we haven't seen them as they have evolved on our timeline. Or for all you know this whole place could be an experiment already and they know all about us and have known for millions if not billions of years. So really its anybodies guess.

But like when you go to the zoo or on a trip to the Serengeti. You do not feed the animals, and you do not interfere in the local wildlife. I mean its cool that you want to save that baby gazelle from the lions, and you could because you got a gun. But it does interfere with the natural order of things.

12.

So far we are not looking at the maps of the actual planets and stars. We are looking at theoretical and data infused artist renditions of things....Have you seen how they actually see stars even with the most sophisticated equipment. There still little dots, not actual real life pictures from there. And even if they were, and you had a telescope that could show you the very planet and whats on it. You would still be looking in to the far far past. But it may be impossible to see that, even light decays over time.

13.

If they would be smart, they would see that this place this universe. The only real way of survival is to exist on another level. So ya! Evolved unto another dimension, one we could not detect even. But assuming they first were physical they would need to be an extremely highly advanced species, to evolve into an extremely highly advanced entity existing on another level.

14.

Only if as a species you goal was to find other sapient life out there. If not! Then you would likely slowly colonize things, and just spread on from there. Maybe like you see in star trek, or maybe like mold on a sandwich. Depending on your outtake on things.

15.

They could be on a whole different vibrational matter pattern then us. After all I think they did find out that matter and subatomic matter is a vibrational pattern. So if they were on this physical plane as us. And if they could fly into space, and if they could colonize planets, even if its there own moon and near planet. And if they could do all that, I think in time they would be able to break through all the known dimensions in time if they survived and especially if they already have a few million years or billion on us. The dimensions of Distance, Time, Radiation, Vacum, Cold or Heat, all the physical products and properties we see around us. All of those are and could not only be mere measurements but also actually dimensions which something if it could would operate from for all we know.

a reply to: Charizard

The "eyeball Earth" is certainly interesting, but I have to wonder if a species could really evolve to the point the greys are supposedly at on such a world. I know we are but one humble example here on Earth, but just look at the way we fight over and abuse the resources we have. I realize a super Earth is, by definition, much larger than our own Earth, but I can't imagine life being easy when you're confined to a small central ring of habitability around the equatorial region of a planet, no matter how large that world may be. One would think resources and especially realestate would quickly dry up if such a world were inhabited by an intelligent species. Advanced technology would likely require significant landmass to be developed (gotta have dry places to build electronics and machinery after all, and places to mine and process minerals and all of that). I just have trouble believing that a species evolving on an "eyeball planet" would be able to progress to the point of space

If a actual physical creature evolved on an eyeball earth to sort of say. It would likely be more of a united creature and probably of a hive mind. After all after billions of years of evolving in such thigh quarters it could lead to something which would either reach sentience faster or not reach it at all. But in either case when resources are limited, and are stuck, any organism from amebic on up you either evolve to work more closely together or you do not evolve at all, and likely the concept of realestate would have a complete different meaning for them then it does for us. If they had such a concept.

So for all we know, if it happened and could have happened, they likely could have reached space first purely as a necessity of survival, and necessity is said to be the mother if invention.

I really like what you put together here Jade Star S+F. I was going to ask you in another thread what exoplanets are closest to Earth that we can pick from for any visiting Intelligent Life? How many more nearby stars have not been confirmed to have planets?

Like the movie Interstellar, do we know what planets would have a dramatic time difference if those Visitors were on our planet for any given time? Do we know what the days and years are like on these exo-planets?

a reply to: JadeStar

Thank for a great read so far S&F..

I'm always astonished about our solar system👍👍

a reply to: LightAssassin

OK, just read all of it, excluding links.

Well, for those who believe.....this will be scientific validation for them, this is for sure.

With The Greys supposed intellectual capabilities and technological capabilities I am sure technological telepathy and communication would be the standard form of communication.

In terms of explaining the reasons for their skin, eyes, stature.....spot on and makes for very interesting speculation.

I have read that Greys are Biorobots for another species. But I too have read that a lot of Alien activity actually resides in the paranormal/extra-dimensional. Could it be possible that accessing the fourth-dimension could enable space travel as would be needed for their continuous visitations? And maybe the paranormal resides in dimensons above the third?

Also, the Betty and Barney Hill/Marjorie Fish map, and those beings.....agreed they are very likely a different species altogether. The description, and their mode of operation seems wholly different to that of 'The Greys'.

I would like to also delve into the claims of cattle mutilation, as it relates to their seemingly useless mouths and their possible dietary needs from the mutilated cattle (claims of drained of blood and vital organs and sexual organs, and glands, taken).

I don't want to subtract from the scientific approach taken here, but this threads premise and tone seems like an opportune time to analyze these other claims in a more serious manner, and maybe how this could relate to Earth's amphibians.

a reply to: game over man

The time difference in Interstellar was created by the present black-hole in the solar system that they worm-hole travelled through to. Not by the planets themselves.

a reply to: TryAndStopTheFuture555

Wow, thanks for your input.....it was.....enlightening.

There's a place for you, it's called the Gray area. Here is a very good thread on one supposed alien species in particular, but I get the feeling you didnt even bother to read this thread.

Why do you even bother posting in this thread, I mean, it is clearly a scientific analysis/speculation.

Hell, you should be excited and enjoy the read, it validates the possible existence of the Grey aliens.

a reply to: JadeStar

Those who believe in grey aliens visiting Earth, no doubt will be heartened to know that nothing would seem to rule out such a species existing and perhaps even behaving as it allegedly does.

Other than the fact that their huge heads would need to be filled with helium if those pencil necks are to support them. Note also the seeming lack of musculature... the classic "grey" seems more like fungus than mammal. On the other hand, your post is extremely well researched, well balanced and informative. You should consider re-working it slightly and submitting it to Analog magazine as a "speculative science" piece. I'm certain they would publish it!

a reply to: DJW001

Other than the fact that their huge heads would need to be filled with helium if those pencil necks are to support them

yes, good point. Its funny how the "greys" got more cartoonish over the years since Betty Hill.


Probably not the sharpest tool in the universe.

a reply to: JadeStar

Wow Jade.
Great work. This read like an actual documented scientific study on grays and their home world. You definitely knocked it out of the park and then some.

Your quickly becoming one of my favorite posters. I'm amazed at the work you put into to this. And I am also glad we have people with your perspective, mind, and ambitions currently working in the field to actually discover and bring these things to light. I'm looking forward to reading some more of these.

I gotta ask how long did you work on this thread??

a reply to: galadofwarthethird

On 'wearing a suit' you did see Jurassic Park, right? Wearing a suit and the suit rips. How do you completely 100% sterilize a suit? How do you prevent accidents. How do you re-sterilize the suit when you get back to the ship. I'm telling you virtual visitation, if it ever happens is the only method of 100% non-contamination.

And it's sentient not sapient lol.

S & F JadeStar.

This is a wonderful thread. Top notch, grade A stuff.

I've always been of a mind that some of the 'other' humanoid races are very closely connected with out world. I believe the idea that UFO/Alien activity was once identified as Faery and later, Angel activity. I really feel its an overlooked piece of the equation - and belies the actual antiquity of our sighting something that has always existed likely right alongside us. Does that mean they, and we, didn't originate out in space? No. We're all made of star stuff, all of existence in this Universe. However, I tend to think - due to myth, legend, hieroglyphs, ancient monuments placement with certain stars - and out of place artifacts - that wherever they are from - they have been around and operating from behind the scenes - watching - for a very very long time now.

CdT

JadeStar --- Is it possible for a highly intelligent humanoid species to be able too perform complex engineering tasks with only three fingers on each of his two hands?

I ask you this question, due to the possibility that I have photographic evidence [that I'm not about to publish anytime soon] about the existence of such a creature that has visited our earth. I speculate that this alien humanoid came from an exo-planet that supports a top of the line humanoid species that evolved from the dinosauroid [three fingered/three toed feet variety] family tree. Not cold blooded reptilians --- mind you --- but a warm blooded [somewhat different from homo sapiens but a similar warm blooded system that has been traced to our own former dinosaurs] creature that has most likely achieved the ability for interstellar flight.

a reply to: JadeStar

I have read it all but save the videos as bedtime snacks.
ATS should have paid you money for making such a good tread.
One the other hand you can sell stuff like this.

Quite a few stars.

Thanks for the fun read.

Too much science stuff for me. My thoughts on grays is that they spent a lot of time in space, hence their skin is pale. They do not need physical strenght as they adapted to using technology for all aspects of life. They are not too advanced if they need to experiment on species. If they had millions of years on earth life forms they would have already gathered enough diverse biodata from other worlds. If one of their UFOs did come down in Rosevelt it means they still have technological flaws. Small mouths may indicate a different mouth structure. Maybe is like an ant-eater. Webbed fingers could just indicate that their fingers could move apart further, needing extra skin. They do not likely have a mothership in orbit, otherwise the rescue would come fast for the Rosevelt crash.

Alternate thought, they are just US from the future. They come back using spaceships because when they time travel they go back to the exact same spot in space. If you go back in time a few days like that anywhere on earth, you will end up in space as the earth was not in the spot at this time. It is constantly moving around the sun and the solar system is also moving allways.

In the whole extra-terrestrial debate, I believe there are some very obvious questions that are overlooked.

1. Bi-pedal entities. All ‘aliens’ follow the same basic structure as life that formed on Earth. So is this the most basic structure for evolving life to follow? Two eyes, two hands, walking upright?

2. Ability to survive in Earth’s atmosphere. How can ‘aliens’ survive the combination of nitrogen, oxygen and other gases that we thrive in? How common is our atmospheric makeup that it would be the same on other planets? Or is this too a common theme throughout the universe?

3. Energy. There is a massive amount of speculation on the amount of energy needed to traverse the space between stars. What if there were a way to be alien to this Earth yet there only a small amount of energy would be needed to get here?

Let me know what you think.
Thanks

This is most comprehensive and great. creative approach to the subject. S&F.

Just for the sake of completeness though B5 had two grey like aliens; the Vree you mentioned and the Striebs. The Striebs were named as a tribute to Strieber's book series entity/aliens.