Poverty Mentality

a reply to: Bluesma

A beautiful piece of writing. An excellent slant into this poor versus rich dilemma most of us agonize over as we struggle with the multiple aspects of living in these modern times where we are a few steps beyond the mere need for survival.

Money changes from time to time. I found out there's new sets of problems either way. I adapt to whatever life brings me. We all pursue happiness. It's not a guarantee.

I have two relatives struggling with this. They are young hipsters who have lived like they did in college for ten years. They rejected every middle-class convention they could in an almost elitist way.

Now they look around and see that their friends are striving to have families, careers, comfortable homes, etc.

They have validated their own lifestyle choices by using terms like "sold out" to refer to their more materially successful friends. But, recently, they are chafing a bit from their own choices. They are asking more questions about how we have all come to a place in our lives that they now want to be in as well.

It has been interesting to watch and listen to them evolve. They have, for so long, assigned some heartless, out-of-touch, even selfish or mercenary values to all of us..simply because we made different choices than them, resulting in a different lifestyle.

Now, it's bit of eating crow. They see that we are still who we always were and that maybe they would like to make different choices to change their lives. But, we love them so we won't say "told you so..."

a reply to: johndeere2020

I believe Artificial Intelligence will be the salvation of humanity.

In the 60s automation wass supposed to give more time for leisure. Why do 2 people need to support a normal mortgage; and I'm not talking about paying off 6-7 credit cards or having the latest 1st generation gizmo. Computers were supposed to be the salvation of humanity in the 80's.

Do you really think AI will free humans from jobs? Or a you hoping a truely aware AI will somehow calculate the optimal carrying capacity of the earth or beneficial interest or inflation rate. Or how about each human only needs 50sq metres of living space and we can achieve infinite economic and population growth?

Sorry to say this but you have not studied human history sufficiently.

Poverty mentality is real... so is poverty reality, though.

It is true that mental state and expectations shape your reality to an extent not normally known by most.

However, I think there is a certain merit to not being selfish and not wanting abundance when so many are impoverished.

Perhaps we should concentrate on mutual need... and we wouldn't then experience the lavishness a few enjoy today, but we would have enough... for everyone... and then, in time, that "enough" would grow to "lavish" without a significant portion of the population daydreaming about guillotines.

ETA oh, and I liked the OP... taking a step back and just being aware in the "meta" sense is veeeery important... thinking about thinking and why... taking an inventory of the mental warehouse and the way the stuff is handled... heh.

There is a saying that rich people do things that make them rich while poor people do things that keep them poor. In my mind, the poverty mentality is failing to see how short term decisions can affect your long term success.

Having grown up exposed to a diversity of incomes and wealth, it became pretty clear early on that individuals are largely responsible for their station in life.

All the friends I had growing up who are struggling either 1) got themselves caught up in the justice system with petty crimes 2) messed around and got some hoodrat pregnant before they were established financially 3) didn't value education and 4) refuse to string together a series of responsible decisions so that they may better themselves over time. In short, the pretty much lacked personal responsibility.

A good example of the poverty mentality is this kid's family I was mentoring through Big Brothers. He was a good kid, but like most in his station, had the broke single mom who couldn't hold a job. He also had an older sister in her late 20s. They all shared a 1 bedroom apartment. His sister got pregnant and had a kid. Think about this for a second. The sister is in her late 20s living at home sharing a 1 bedroom apartment. Barely employable. Yet this chick gets herself pregnant? WTF. Condoms are free. Birth control is free. There is no excuse for "accidental" pregnancies these days. Of course, now that she has a kid with a dead beat boyfriend, the odds of her digging her way out of poverty are slim to none. the cycle continues. That's poverty mentality.

The thing about America at least is that just because you may be poor, it doesn't mean you have to stay poor. It also doesn't mean your offspring are relegated to being poor. My grandparents didn't finish elementary school. Yet, they knew one had to work hard and provide for their family. My grandfather worked two minimum wage jobs. However, he knew education was important along with the values so he instilled in my father the same work ethic. My father was a cop. My mother was secretary. My parents passed this on to me. I was first to go to college and actually got an MBA from one of the top 3 business schools. Pretty much a 1%er now. It wasn't that hard. I didn't get voted into the illuminati. Nor was my station selected for me at birth. Just stayed focused on what I wanted and worked hard while staying out of trouble.

a reply to: Edumakated

Your first paragraph is similar to a popular book called Rich Dad, Poor Dad .

originally posted by: Bluesma
I got started thinking about something, set off by another thread…poverty mentality.
It was amazingly hard for me to let go of my ideas. But reality wouldn’t budge, I could not deny it. I realized that all these beliefs were coping mechanisms that had been useful for me in the past, so that I did not feel jealous or bitter about having less. They were successful in that. But all coping mechanisms reach a point where they cease to be needed or effective, and become obstacles and sources of problem instead.

We consider that many things need maintenance- we brush our teeth, wash our hair, clean our house, cut our lawn…. But even our beliefs and thoughts need some maintenance from time to time. We need to take a look at what is worn out and needs to be thrown away, what needs to be replaced.

Wow.... amazing breakthrough!

Incredibly great metaphor!!! YES!

We are so conditioned to work on everything else, upgrade, even beyond maintenance. We get new clothes, new car, new pets, even new partners, spouses, everything.

But we never stop to upgrade our beliefs we've been ingrained with since we were kids.

Once we become aware of the beliefs, like you did, then we can choose if they are useful beliefs or not.

One of my beliefs about money is "There is more than enough..."

When you believe this, and train your brain to believe it, you will see it everywhere. The only way to get money is to get it from where it is at now.

You can do that by adding value to people who have the money. They will pay you for adding value. Want more money, add more value than anybody else.

Know how to train your mind that there is more than enough? Gratitude and giving. Look at everything you already have, and experience the feeling of gratitude. Then go out and give money to somebody. Giving money away generously will condition you into an abundance mentality. It's the opposite of a poverty mentality. It becomes real, not just intellectual.

Awesome thread! You are very inspiring. Thank you.

originally posted by: Baddogma
Poverty mentality is real... so is poverty reality, though.

It is true that mental state and expectations shape your reality to an extent not normally known by most.

However, I think there is a certain merit to not being selfish and not wanting abundance when so many are impoverished.

Perhaps we should concentrate on mutual need... and we wouldn't then experience the lavishness a few enjoy today, but we would have enough... for everyone... and then, in time, that "enough" would grow to "lavish" without a significant portion of the population daydreaming about guillotines.

ETA oh, and I liked the OP... taking a step back and just being aware in the "meta" sense is veeeery important... thinking about thinking and why... taking an inventory of the mental warehouse and the way the stuff is handled... heh.

I would like to challenge your perception.

The cure for poverty isn't more poverty. It's wealth. It's abundance.

True, there is real poverty. There are also real world strategies that one must learn. You just can't think and grow rich alone. If you read that book, you'll see that thinking is the start, and thinking needs to be followed by massive action.

Being aware of your own beliefs, and how they drive all your actions, is where change must begin.

originally posted by: Kangaruex4Ewe
a reply to: skunkape23

I don't have a real hard time believing that for some reason.

Either way... One thing is absolutely true -

Life is about much more than dollars and cents.

My daughter has that as her background thingy on facebook - I like her values. Because she works hard, put herself through college and got her degree while working (not common in france, a student is expected to focus only on studies). She got her pick of great jobs when she got out and makes a good living now, at only 23. But she is surrounded by great friends and a good relationship. She's kept in mind that isn't all about money. That makes me glad.

originally posted by: igloo
Beautiful insight!

I am fighting another aspect of poverty mentality... was poor many years and also comfortable with it as I believed it made me live happily in the here and now, feeling love and being loved, rather than struggling with desire for things.

Recently I came into a job that pays well. I am by no means wealthy and work up to sixty hours a week, but in this impoverished town I worry that I stand out as we are building a new house. I can't shake the feeling that I have stepped out of my place in life. On the other hand, as the job only lasts another year or so, I see it as a blessing that has allowed me to give our kids a bit of a better life, buy the materials to build a super creative house, and just an all round break from worrying about not having rent money, food, etc. But poverty mentality is still haunting me in it's own way.

Fully agree that most wealthy folk are just normal, happy family people. Over the years I worked for a few and they were really cool, hard working and accepted me as equal.

The world is not served by you playing small. Let your light shine so you give others permission to do the same.

-Mariannne Willimanson, Our Deepest Fear.

originally posted by: learnatic


Hhhhmmmmm, you mean you had to be poor to think of these things? Sorry mate that sounds every bit like a sales pitch. I reckon I could spend as much time as you have reflecting on these things if I was rich and did'nt have to work.

I promise I have nothing to sell! But perhaps I had been fed some ideas by those who wanted me to buy?
It's not rare for people to have the idea that great sacrifices must be made in order to be financially successful- that one must work long hours and neglect their spouse, their children, and extended family, in order to "get ahead".

I work. I work six days a week, have burn scars all over my arms and hands, as well as joint inflammation in my shoulders and elbows because of my work. I still get up at 4:30 AM to write before I start work at 6, because I like to think. Call it a fault- whatever. I need time to think, and I make time for it.

Before this job, I had my own business, which I liked, but was working 12 hours a day, six days a week, and became unhappy because I didn't get enough time with my family. So I found something else which meant more time with my loved ones, and strangely enough, more money! I LOVE my work. It is fun, creative, fulfilling in many ways, and all the fatigue and burns mean nothing to me. I'm moving up fast because I love it. It's that simple. The jealous people complain that I don't need the money, so why am I there? My husband makes 7 times what my boss makes.

I am not doing it for the money. I am doing it out of love.Maybe that is why I can still find the energy to wake up at 4:30 and think? I dunno.

Do the rich ever think how much dedication, mental stamina and energy it takes to work 5 days a week for 40 years, particularly when we only ever have negative motivation to drive ourselves with.

Yes, quite often, from what I have seen. And they wonder why choose to work with negative motivation? Why do that if it doesn't arouse your passion and joy?

I am not insensitive to the realities of poverty and struggle, I mean only to point out that sometimes we get used to poverty and struggle and keep ourselves there when we don't have to. Sometimes we stick with suffering because it is familiar, we have grasped the value in it, and not in other types of experiences.

But my reflections are not new- Pride and Prejudice was written long ago, and still has some relevance today.

Good thread Bluesma. There is an advantage to doing what you love in that problems become challenges, there is less boredom and more progress-minded thinking. Longer hours are easier to do, your focus is superior and you feel better about every aspect of your work. Blessed are those who are able to earn a living doing what they love. Therein lies the rub - many are not able to find work doing what they enjoy and still others have yet to find what it is that they enjoy doing that can generate an income.

Like your husband my family never took to the idea of me becoming an artist, at least not in the way I wanted to be one. They thought you must go to school and earn a degree, that was the logical road to take. I wanted no part of it after 13 years of school boring me senseless nor did I care to pick up whatever influences school and more teachers might put in to me. I tried selling drawings and paintings and though able to get positive feedback from critics I discovered that A) I was no a salesman and B) I wasn't much interested in doing commissioned work.

I ended up learning to engrave which later gave me the opportunity to be creative once I started doing custom work. After being poor all my life I was suddenly hobnobbing with wealthy people of all stripes bound my a love for custom made knives and guns. While most of them were very likable and easy to get along with I did discover that the very rich were far less amiable and far more difficult to please. I could hardly believe it when one of them refused to pay me for design work they had specifically requested, even though they were worth many millions. Maybe they got rich a couple hundred bucks at a time by ripping people off, I dunno but it sure made an impression on me.

We all carry stereotypes in our heads and thank God most folks don't live up to them. If they did this world would be a boringly predictable place with few surprises.

When I was younger I became overwhelmed with the workforce, and took some time off to travel and find myself. Hitting the road with little more than a guitar and backpack, I found more kindness in soup kitchens and church feeds than I had in all my years working in the service industry. I was able to maintain shelter and meals through my modest allowance from the kindness of strangers through musical street performance. It wasn't the lavish rock star life, but I was honestly and genuinely happy for the first time in my young life.

Two decades later I'm still living below the poverty line. No car and a tiny low income apartment with my sweet husband. He grew up in a very impoverished environment, but because of his upbringing and my travels in my 20's, we are immensely grateful for the simple things in life....a warm home and a hot meal, and each others company.

Somehow we are graced enough to have a little extra after bills and expenses to donate to local charities. Not much, mind you, but still being able to help others is a blessing.

We've talked about what we would do if we ever found ourselves with an unexpected windfall, and to be honest....we' probably give most of it away and remain in our little humble home. Upgrading would be terrifying. Sadly, we've both seen how money can warp perceptions and values for some, so we're exceedingly cautious. We're in a wonderful neighborhood that is getting better ever day...our new neighbors are kind and thoughtful....and really, what more could we ask for?

We wouldn't have it any other way.

As the saying goes:

"True happiness isn't having everything you want....it's wanting everything you have."

a reply to: Jamie1

Where did I say the cure for poverty was more poverty?

We have X amount of resources... the more successful in society gather more of those resources... fewer have access.

That is the model we have followed since one human learned to beat others and take their stuff.

I simply posit that mutually sharing those resources would result in that small % of successful humans having less luxuries and a vast % having more... at the least clothing, shelter and enough to eat. Not really communism, per se, but certainly an artificial enforced-informed sharing.

I think, and models have shown, that if more had more to start, then society as a whole benefits... general IQ is increased with better nutrition/stability ...with an even greater benefit for the previous hoarders of commodities getting to keep their respective heads upon their shoulders.

There was poor since the beginning of man. There will be poor in the future. If you use it as a reason not to better yourself, you might be the one hurting yourself. There are a few who cannot prevent it because of their genetics. There are some with defects who make it despite the problems they live with. You are your own worse enemy if you fall for it. I'm all for helping people who try. We all had help at one time or another. If you make excuses, nothing gets done and your condition stays the same.

A unique thread. I like it very much, and thanks.

First thought I had was wondering why you said "poverty mentally" rather than "mental poverty". After reading the OP, I see why. Two very different things.

Then I thought of the people coming from generational poverty, and "poverty mentally" is such a strong mindset, sometimes breaking away from it doesn't even seem like an option worth considering.

I've read something in the past about a "happiness quotient". It's essentially a theory (maybe more) that every individual has his/her own capacity for happiness. For example, if there is a person who is very miserable and unhappy, and has always been that way. Suddenly, he wins the lottery, or something that could be wonderfully life-changing. At first the person is extremely happy. No longer is he miserable or unhappy.

But after six months or a year passes, even though he has acquired money and a way to bring new and wonderful things into his life, he begins his downward spiral back into sadness and misery. He is going back to his natural "quotient" for happiness. It's the way he's made. So now, even with lots of money, he is sad and miserable.

The same is true the other way around. A person is very wealthy, but too, enjoys a happy disposition and sunny attitude.
Something devastating occurs causing the person to lose all his wealth. Again, for six months to a year, the person is sad and depressed. But shortly after that, he is returned to his "happiness quotient". Even though he/she is now poor, they are back having a happy disposition, and sunny attitude.

I haven't thought about that study in years..... but your OP reminded me of it. (Yeah, somebody got a government grant to do such a study.... there was a time when that kind of thing (grants and money to carry out the study) was there "to be had", if you could write a decent proposal.)

I mean, the OP was happy and content as a young woman in a financially limited situation, raising young children.... and now, having gained financial success, she is still Happy!

Is this the "happiness quotient" in effect?

originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: Jamie1

Where did I say the cure for poverty was more poverty?

We have X amount of resources... the more successful in society gather more of those resources... fewer have access.

That is the model we have followed since one human learned to beat others and take their stuff.

I simply posit that mutually sharing those resources would result in that small % of successful humans having less luxuries and a vast % having more... at the least clothing, shelter and enough to eat. Not really communism, per se, but certainly an artificial enforced-informed sharing.

I think, and models have shown, that if more had more to start, then society as a whole benefits... general IQ is increased with better nutrition/stability ...with an even greater benefit for the previous hoarders of commodities getting to keep their respective heads upon their shoulders.

The fallacy in your thinking is that resources/wealthy is finite. It isn't. The entire pie grows, not just once person's slice. Bill Gates having $50 billion dollars does not mean he took $50 billion from everyone else.

a reply to: kosmicjack

I know at all to well
But I was never a hipster
I grew up poor then my Mom got a successful business goin and we where doing well
Until the dot com bust which made us poor again and almost killed the company
but the business stayed open luckly
And in the early 2000's it became a quite profitable business employing 40 plus people and doing well over a million in sale in a year

We went from Top Ramon and cereal for dinner, me selling candy and sodas I swipped from the supermarket to other kids at school. Since the schools didnt sell sodas or candy and had no vending machines. So I at least would have some money for something. I also went from whereing Basiclly the same things cause I had like no cloths.
To showing up to with all new and nice cloths the next school year I was treated completely differently.
Now are family would travel on great vacations go to nice restaurant and got to enjoy all these great things that this new wealth could provide us.

I had the nicest car at are high school and didn't have to worry about much finacially except I did have a job delivering pizzas and I played baseball the problem of my youth while not entirely forgotten cause I had friends ive know from when we where playing kick the can as kids and whose families had always had to struggle but i had other friend who where from well off families those groups of friends didnt mix cause the rich kids didn't want the poor one around and the poor once well they thought everyone at school was weak and would gladly jack people or bully them no matter how old they where
the memory of being poor fell to the back of my mind because I had it all cause the my friends from the hood where my friends and wouldn't jack me or fight me unless there was a reason for us to fight which making out with someo e sister can be but after everything we were still friends
As for the richer kids the liked me cause I was nice friendly and by being friend with me made them less likely to be targeted.

After I graduated I choose to go play baseball at junior college rather then a university
which in hide-site I should have cause I through my arm out and could play anymore other then that I real just had it good went to school traveled and partied at every college I knew people at and played poker

Just before I was going to finish JC I was offered a job at a mortgage lendering company a friend from high school had started that was great for a while until he was charged with mortgage fraud and I lost that my first loan officer job.
Got another and was making even more money living in a nice large house driving a nice ass car and having ablast

Then I lost that job when they changed the laws for licensing and I had to move back home and figure out what to do next which basiclly was me playing online poker until the Feds froze my full tilt account with like 12 grand in it

At the sametime my family lost there business and followed by there home thanks to the recession and I ended up on the my own which was ok I was just making it for awhile.

But after a car accident involving my now ex girl friends ex husband's Mini van resulting in me being charged with GTA which was dropped after I spend 2 months in jail fighting it. I beat the felony but still had to pay back what I owed on the damage of the van
Which after leaving jail to discover all of my possession gone from where I had lived I had nothing and very few places to go my family moved away and where broke my good friends helped but there is only so much they could do and most had left except my friends who lived in the hood I grew up in and they took me in helped me out as I tried to get back to at least even which I still am not even close to I'm perpetually broke and have filed bankruptcy but still I continually have problems finding stead employment it's all temp Corprate contract work and bunch of side jobs just which pay anywhere from ok to jack#. All of which goes to bills and debt



If i can say this much cause I've gone from poor to rich back to poor then to wealthy and then way below zero


It's not what you've got, it's what they will let you have. Cause money comes and goes like the wind
But
That the hardest the hardest thing in the world is to make something from nothing.

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

I am familiar with that study and theory! It actually had a very strong influence in my thinking and self development.

I realized that I had a certain level of discomfort and misery that I was used to, and that even if I had times of rising above it, I always seemed to fall back to that same level.

It reminded me though, of the phenomenon you find with weight? You get a certain "set point", which you can rise above, or fall below, through effort or not, but keep going back to that.
In that dynamic though, you can change the set point, but it takes a very long time. It takes a certain amount of patience with the fluctuations (not focusing on them too much) and getting them to be less and less extreme.

I actually spent years doing very purposeful and conscious effort and experimentation to change my comfort level set point. Part of that was facing my internal mechanisms such as this. I also found that when I started to feel too comfortable, my mind would start thinking about negative things.....like past mistakes. Like the stupid things I said or did which were inappropriate or hurtful to someone else.

I observed that the only purpose for those moments seemed to be to bring me down, back to a level my body was used to. To pull down my confidence in myself and in life in general. So I began cutting those off when they would start, and it was as hard as quitting smoking! I am serious!

But just as with the smoking habit, my experience has left me able to deal with slip ups- if I fall again, I know I can get back up, and that alone gets me back out faster (making that fluctuation less pronounced).

If I end up homeless and hungry again, as I was when young, I know I can get back out too, so that makes my fear of loss almost inexistant. - this seems , to me, to be a very important point. The fear of loss, the fear of "not having enough", is a formidable obstacle.

Now I am sounding like some New Age quack with a book to sell on magical abundance creation....
What I am refering to though, is really just psychology and behavior- nothing magical about it.