If aliens invaded the Earth

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
That would probably be like an ant meeting a boot.

Would it be, though?

Many people are apt to believe that in, say, 5000 years from now, human exploration of the galaxy may be commonplace. If we humans 5000 years from now came across a alien race that is roughly at the same technological stage that we are today, would we really perceive them as nothing more than metaphorical ants?

If we (today) went back in time 5000 years, would we not recognize human civilization from 5000 years ago as being a civilization at all, and only perceive them as ants?

The answer is no, we wouldn't see them as ants; we would see them as a viable species with a viable civilization, albeit less technologically advanced. So why are we so convinced that another alien race would not be able to recognize our civilization today as a true civilization, even if we are not as technologically advanced?

Instead of 5,000 try to imagine humanity in 5,000,000 or 5,000,000,00 years.

The chances of us meeting anyone only 5,000 years more advanced than us is tiny compared to millions or billions of years more.

I spelled this out already.

Earth is only 4.5 billion years old.

The Milky Way Galaxy which the Earth and our solar system are in is 12 billion years old.

Most stars in the Milky Way are between 5-9 billion years old.

So the chances are anyone we meet will have at LEAST a million year head start if not a billion.

Worth watching:

Too bad Carl Sagan was such a complete idiot about UFOs and aliens. Ah well, at least we have him to thank for being our first celebrity scientist.

I'm sure if alien ships were suddenly hovering over our cities, many of us would be questioning the legitimacy of said event from the gate. Project Bluebeam could come to mind, amongst other possibilities. Now we should also ask, if they were to invade, what would the reasoning be behind such an act? Realistically speaking, my first guess would be resources. Occupation of the planet for way station purposes perhaps. . It's unlikely that they would do it just to do it, if they are anything like us in any way.

originally posted by: DoctorTruth
I won't lie, sometimes I do wish a crazy advanced race like Predators attacked us so we can finally get a dose of our own medicine.

That would keep the doctors very busy ... what with all the death and maiming and disease that would be unleashed upon humanity. I would think that a doctor wouldn't want that kind of thing unleashed upon humanity.

Make no mistake, if we were attacked, we would not win.

the ONLY thing that could make humanity work together is an alien invasion or a similarly paradigm-shifting event. then we would realise that our notional boundaries and differences mean squat. we would be as one, united finally.

of course, some of us would be collaborators...

They won't use overt aggression. Remember they are more advanced in every way. They will do things like make us like them, or make us accept something that will make us defeat ourselves or just terraform the planet making it inhospitable to human life, or even insert a virus which will turn us into milkshakes.

Forget the 'secret invasion by hostile armed ships'. They won't waste their resources or time doing it overtly.

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
That would probably be like an ant meeting a boot.

Would it be, though?

Many people are apt to believe that in, say, 5000 years from now, human exploration of the galaxy may be commonplace. If we humans 5000 years from now came across a alien race that is roughly at the same technological stage that we are today, would we really perceive them as nothing more than metaphorical ants?

If we (today) went back in time 5000 years, would we not recognize human civilization from 5000 years ago as being a civilization at all, and only perceive them as ants?

The answer is no, we wouldn't see them as ants; we would see them as a viable species with a viable civilization, albeit less technologically advanced. So why are we so convinced that another alien race would not be able to recognize our civilization today as a true civilization, even if we are not as technologically advanced?

Instead of 5,000 try to imagine humanity in 5,000,000 or 5,000,000,00 years.

The chances of us meeting anyone only 5,000 years more advanced than us is tiny compared to millions or billions of years more.

That's assuming a civilization could last for billions of years without extinction -- extinction from within, from outside forces, or even from just plain "old age" (old age on a civilization scale).

So let's say a civilization may possibly only have a life span of -- say -- 100,000 years (or even 250,000 years). I agree with the notion that even if we humans came across a species who is similar to the way our species was 250,000 years ago, they would not appear as simply "ants" to us, but would appear to us to be intelligent beings (considering that humans 250,000 years ago were in fact intelligent beings).

Granted -- even if there is a "general" life expectancy to civilizations, perhaps there could still be a few that are several million years older than us, but those may be very few and far between in the universe. It is possible that, in general, civilizations only last 250,000 years, a civilization that age or less may be the type of alien civilization would be more likely to cross paths with us.

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: JadeStar

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Hoosierdaddy71
That would probably be like an ant meeting a boot.

Would it be, though?

Many people are apt to believe that in, say, 5000 years from now, human exploration of the galaxy may be commonplace. If we humans 5000 years from now came across a alien race that is roughly at the same technological stage that we are today, would we really perceive them as nothing more than metaphorical ants?

If we (today) went back in time 5000 years, would we not recognize human civilization from 5000 years ago as being a civilization at all, and only perceive them as ants?

The answer is no, we wouldn't see them as ants; we would see them as a viable species with a viable civilization, albeit less technologically advanced. So why are we so convinced that another alien race would not be able to recognize our civilization today as a true civilization, even if we are not as technologically advanced?

Instead of 5,000 try to imagine humanity in 5,000,000 or 5,000,000,00 years.

The chances of us meeting anyone only 5,000 years more advanced than us is tiny compared to millions or billions of years more.

That's assuming a civilization could last for billions of years without extinction -- extinction from within, from outside forces, or even from just plain "old age" (old age on a civilization scale).

So let's say a civilization may possibly only have a life span of -- say -- 100,000 years (or even 250,000 years). I agree with the notion that even if we humans came across a species who is similar to the way our species was 250,000 years ago, they would not appear as simply "ants" to us, but would appear to us to be intelligent beings (considering that humans 250,000 years ago were in fact intelligent beings).

If there is a life expectancy to civilizations, perhaps there could be a few that are several million years older than us, but those may be very few and far between in the universe. Perhaps civilizations only last 250,000 years, so that may be the type of alien civilization would be more likely to cross paths with us.

Sound reasoning however, you have to tell us what you propose would limit a civilization to only 250,000 years. Why not 500,000 or 750,000 or a million? Or a billion?

It seems arbitrary to pick 250,000 years and say 'thee shall not pass' without a citing a mechanism.

Once a species is travelling among the stars it doesn't seem like there would be any real limits to their longevity. They could outlive their place of origin dying due to stellar evolution, they could spread among several habitable worlds so if one civilization somehow failed others would persist.

It's very hard for me to imagine anything that would limit an interstellar civilization to such a short period (in cosmic terms) lifespan.

originally posted by: JadeStar
Sound reasoning however, you have to tell us what you propose would limit a civilization to only 250,000 years. Why not 500,000 or 750,000 or a million? Or a billion?

It seems arbitrary to pick 250,000 years and say 'thee shall not pass' without a citing a mechanism.

Once a species is travelling among the stars it doesn't seem like there would be any real limits to their longevity. They could outlive their place of origin dying due to stellar evolution, they could spread among several habitable worlds so if one civilization somehow failed others would persist.

It's very hard for me to imagine anything that would limit an interstellar civilization to such a short period (in cosmic terms) lifespan.

To be clear, I'm not talking about the extinction of the entire alien species. I just mean an extinction of their civilization (or maybe "end of their civilization" would be a more appropriate term). Sure -- those aliens may live on as a species because of colonization of planets having similar environments as their home world, but that does not necessarily guarantee longevity of their civilization. They may have catastrophes every "X-thousand" or "X-million" years that sets their civilization back to their version of the proverbial "dark age".


And you're right about the 250,000 years being arbitrary, but even if it was 1,000,000 years more advanced than us, I still think they would be able to see us as more than simply ants. Even 1,000,000 years ago, our proto-human ancestors exhibited an intelligence that would not go unnoticed.

What if some on nations colluded with the aliens and joined them against the rest non alien joiners.

Just think for a moment if aliens broadcasted a message to everyones mind and promised super powers and immortality to any who joined thier forces on the earth wether it be animal, inscet, plant or human, I am pretty sure there would be more who joined than would want to stick it out with the regular human to see how this whole invasion thing plays out.

This thread isnt very clever...
Are you honestly asking if it would be our last resort to work against a common enemy? Why would you even ask that?
Thats rhetorical: exactly this mindset is what is a major problem in the world.
It seems we can't even unite for a common good either though.
My thinking is that if aliens would show theirselves to everyone here, a global union of peace, at least major mental and cultural evolution would be more likely, since they would have power and knowledge to show us how it can be done, if it can be done (even if they are that bold to show because I believe our armies are very hostile towards them)
Take care

The ufonauts [actual biological alien entities or ET robots] have already peaceably invaded our planet.

If aliens invade just say bye bye to the powers that be, I would stay out of thier way, and wouldnt fight them, as it would be like Bambi vs Godzilla, and we wouldnt be Godzilla hint hint.

a reply to: JadeStar

On longevity - lots of reasons, but consider the natural rate of extinction (or change to something else) here. I'm thinking a million years to sentience then 50K years until going extinct either by natural disaster (GRB) or internal collapse, social, economic, environmental (CO2 or the like?), or even genetic exhaustion (is that a word?). I'm not even factoring in failure to harness technology (atomics, grey goo).

a reply to: DoctorTruth

They have already invaded. They just don't do it Hollywood Blockbuster style. Their methods are more subtle.

Why would aliens invade? Lets say they wanted us dead for whatever reason, as a prerequisite for getting here they would need very powerful engines. What if they put those engines on asteroids and made turned them into mass drivers? There would be absolutely nothing we could do against that, and it would be an extinction level event.

I would expect a real invasion to go down unlike anything we would expect, something like a massive woman that could knock the earth off its axis with ease.

Lets say aliens invade the Earth.

Nowl, consider the distance.. lets say aliens has figured the hypothetical "wormhole"

The way i see it .. from a strategic or military point of view is that they would arrive in a ship that takes long trip in near speed of light, and say parking somewhere outer parts of our star system. (For reasons so we can't detect them even by luck )

Then they setup a staging ground and start to build a "gate" think eve online or mass effect (just a crude example) in order to a have a "stable" connection where they comes from. They can get the necessary resources from asteroids or moons in our systems.

Now reason to WHY they would invade.

Truthfully? i believe resources in many aspect. water, rare metals, our planet since they are in the "habitable" zone.


now my opinion? I may think they would invade. its just not the way we think they would do. For all we know. they have already done so. (points to all those conflicts on our scarred planet)


Sincerly yours
Viperion

It would be more like move-in day than an invasion. They would have a way to exterminate all the pests without setting a boot . . . eeer claw, tentacle, whatever on the ground prior to that day. they would be like you are evicted/foreclosed on because you did not maintain the home in good repair!

I would think of it more as a when not if. Meaning its bound to eventually happen, due to our relatively narrow approach to the rest of the universe.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: pikestaff

Aliens that advanced to travel the stars, why would they want to invade a polluted planet full of smelly little creatures that poop their own nest?

Resources like water and metals are plentiful in the Galaxy but maybe tasty soft bellied food is less so , we may well be seen as a tasty snack to distribute throughout the empire.


They are chock full of any number of virus's, any one of which could start an epidemic throughout the empire, keep the little germ baskets down there.