White Woman Goes on Shooting Spree, Yet Somehow Isn't Automatically Killed By Police

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
Youre being purposefully obtuse because you got caught in your own rhetoric.....

I am answering the questions honestly. Nothing in my opinion is obtuse, and if you follow the line, you will see that I haven't actually swayed from this opinion.

originally posted by: DrJunk

Obama was elected to the presidency because white people elected him.

Actually, white people didn't elect Obama, it was mostly due to people of color and the poor.

www.ropercenter.uconn.edu... ...... for a breakdown of 2008 presidential voting by race and other demographics.

55% of votes cast for McCain were by Whites

and only 45% of votes cast by Whites were for Obama.

You point out the real problem, the demographic of citizens of the US is changing. It's causing tremdous fear in the 'status quo'.

And I wouldn't in any real sense call Obama Black. Maybe Black light - but his experience of life was pretty damn white.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
Then youre admitting that the black inner city cultures they are cultivating are the problem.....

Thank you for admitting to it

I'm not "admitting" it, because I don't think there is anything shameful about it.

Yes, black culture has many many flaws, but there are people that are blaiming that ON racism, instead of seeing it as a product of generations of racism.

originally posted by: DrJunk

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
Then youre admitting that the black inner city cultures they are cultivating are the problem.....

Thank you for admitting to it

I'm not "admitting" it, because I don't think there is anything shameful about it.

Yes, black culture has many many flaws, but there are people that are blaiming that ON racism, instead of seeing it as a product of generations of racism.

I dont think it has anything to do with racism tho, see thats where we differ on this, because I think this is a product of a loss of values ......Id ont believe thats caused by any racism

originally posted by: FyreByrd
Actually, white people didn't elect Obama, it was mostly due to people of color and the poor...

www.politico.com...

This analysis of the data may change your mind on that, as it is more than just raw numbers, but rather, some interesting trends, and explanation on what the numbers mean.

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
I dont think it has anything to do with racism tho, see thats where we differ on this, because I think this is a product of a loss of values ......Id ont believe thats caused by any racism

I agree that it is on a loss of values, but that loss comes from the hopelessness caused by generational poverty... which in turn is caused by racism. If it wasn't caused by racism, we would see these same themes of hopelessness played out across multiple ethnicities that experience widespread generational poverty. Pockets of the rural south, for instance, have what is now popularized as "redneck" culture, which in itself stems from generational poverty. This is not the same as inner city culture, which is predominately black, and nearly inescapable for people of a certain skin color.

a reply to: DrJunk

I went to Detroit Public Schools. It was 95% black at the time. The first year I started high school, they put in a metal detector. I managed to make it though. There were times when it did get a little hairy. The streets were bad also.

Education is in shambles because the community doesn't give a # about it. My parents were not gospel holy rollers. Hell, my mother was gone early in life. My father liked to party but he always had a job. He always told me to have a strong work ethic. He told me if I ever was caught with drugs, don't bother to call him to bail me out. He never condoned the wrong. He might have done wrong but never condoned it. I worked right along side many black people who were good people. I've met some ignorant people on all sides of the spectrum. You can't sweep parenting under the carpet and expect results.

I know, lets give everyone on welfare a job coach. All people on welfare and not just one color. This way people can see options and maybe even give people some hope. It probably won't cure everything but I'll bet it'll help a majority of people. Educate people with a better way.

Drugs are everywhere. This is destroying the very fabric of the nation. I mean it's everywhere. How many people have seen the meth and crack heads in areas you never used to see them in. The inner-cities are going to spread and already have. I say have a real war on drugs from the very top to the bottom. Half the people looting are probably high on something or looking to get high. There's many factors on why things are the way they are.

Maybe Arnold was right when he said people need to be told what to think. Thinking for themselves doesn't seem to be working out for them. You know that's the natural progression in this whole mess. I'm glad I'm not going to be around much longer but I'd love to see real change. One were we get to keep our free will and freedoms. It isn't looking very good at the moment.



I may be a little naive to think everyone can work together for the common good but the flip side is worse.

originally posted by: DrJunk

originally posted by: Jamie1

originally posted by: DrJunk

originally posted by: Jamie1
So are you saying that blacks don't have the proper mentality for success and independence? By "ingrained" you mean mentally, not physically, right?

No, I'm not saying that. I am saying that they don't have equal educational opportunities afforded them. This isn't new information... I don't understand what your hold up is.

You specifically referred to my Vietnamese friend having cultural traits for success and independence ingrained in her.

Do you not believe blacks have these same cultural traits ingrained in them?

Do I believe American Blacks have Vietnamese cultural traits ingrained in them? Nope.

My Vietnamese friend got here in 2011 and barely spoke English. She taught herself, worked two jobs, and now has opened her own nail salon.

What educational opportunities do you feel blacks are lacking that would prevent them from working two minimum wage jobs that don't even require knowing how to speak English, and then open their own business?

I won't speak hypothetically about a person that may not even exist. Besides, your exceptional friend isn't the rule, but the exception, because I know plenty of people, White, Black, and Asian, who work two jobs and could never afford to open their own business.

You're speaking hypothetically about entire cultures of people, blacks and Vietnamese, and claiming blacks are lacking some sort of ingrained ability to succeed, and that it's the result of not having educational opportunities.

Look around. Do you even live in the U.S.? Go into any large city. There are thousands of immigrants who started their own businesses. It doesn't take a fortune. It takes working and saving a little money.

Are you saying blacks have less of an opportunity to do this than those who are not black because of their culture? Their schools? Their parenting?

You claimed it was education, but have nothing to back up that claim.

a reply to: LOSTinAMERICA

Do you consider yourself more or less successful than most of the people you went to high school with?

originally posted by: Jamie1
You claimed it was education, but have nothing to back up that claim.

And you are claiming she did this all on her own, with nothing to back up that claim.

originally posted by: DrJunk

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
So youre saying the schools in vietnam are better then the opportunity for education they have here in the US?

Nope. I'm also not really interested in talking about Vietnam, so...

No - let's take a moment to talk about the differences between one Vietnamese person of today and one Black person of today.

The Viet person knew there family of origin, knew where they came from, and knew their name.

A Black person in this country doesn't know where their familes came from, who is in their family or origin, or even their names.

The Viet person probably had financial support from family at home and family here. The Black person probably doesn't have access to that kind of familial support.

Education - the public education in Vietnam is probably better and more fact based then the one in the US.

Education - in the black communities of the US is underfunded (due to legislated rules) then in, shall we say, more affluent societies.

I know Blacks that came from these poor condidtions and did well for themselves and they are to be congratulated for it - but it is the exception not the rule.

The Vietnamese person opening her own business is likewise to be congratulated - but is not the norm for poor Vietnamese either.

It's a ridiculous agrument. An individual outcome can never stand as proof of the excellence or poverty of a system.

a reply to: DrJunk

I would say average. I'm not trying to keep up with the Joneses. I probably never will. I do know what right and wrong is. Whatever makes you happy without hurting other people is a big plus in my book.

a reply to: LOSTinAMERICA

Drugs are everywhere. This is destroying the very fabric of the nation. I mean it's everywhere. How many people have seen the meth and crack heads in areas you never used to see them in. The inner-cities are going to spread and already have. I say have a real war on drugs from the very top to the bottom. Half the people looting are probably high on something or looking to get high. There's many factors on why things are the way they are.

Are the drugs destroying the nation because of the "war on drugs" being nothing more that a repetition of the Prohibition of Alcohol? Or the fact that legalizing a certain plant would hurt the bottom line of Big Pharm and possibly expose the corruption of government officials who sold their constituents out in favor of a Multi BILLION dollar business?

How about private prisons?

How much money have they made off of the "War on Drugs"?

Not sure how old you are, but I am 51 and as a teenager? If my parents told me NOT TO DO SOMETHING? I DID IT! Isn't that what prohibition is to adults? We might be adults, but we sure as hell don't like the government to decide what we are allowed OR not allowed to do! Especially, when it isn't hurting anyone other that possibly ourselves for making that decision!

Not to mention, why do our government officials get a free pass on "DRUG TESTS"?

But you're right! There are many reasons why people do what they do, and regardless of the MSM propaganda, it isn't as simple as how they portray it!

I only went away for a couple of hours and was suprised to see the volume of posts to this thread. The discussion is for the most part civil and productive - thank you.

I truly believe it is cowardly and disingenous to avoid discussions of race in US society and predict it will become ever more necessary if we (and I specifically mean white people) are going to learn to function happily in our evolving land.

once freed blacks sure did not take over the plantation houses. So then we have to assume there is some period of intergration into the system. Also whites did not suddenly find a locker full of love for blacks. Then we can assume that over the last hundred yrs certain laws have been made to shape our society into what it is today. Please tell me exactly what day did inequality leave the country?

On top of all that any fool with eyes can see that since the industrial revolution there will always be more people than jobs. guess what only a certain number of people can afford to get their nails done. Then add in the incentive in the land to the south where every dollar an immigrant earns is automatically worth 10x that when they send it home and suddenly the solution for everyone should just work hard and get ahead it becomes clear that is just a copout statment to get around the real issues we have today.

a reply to: seeker1963

No, the drugs themselves are making people insane. Legalize it and watch the entire nation look like the walking dead. I'm tired of seeing the freaks. I'm tired of combat locking all my # up also. Make pot legal and destroy the rest. That's the only concession I can give about the matter and I don't even smoke pot.

originally posted by: LOSTinAMERICA
a reply to: DrJunk

I would say average. I'm not trying to keep up with the Joneses. I probably never will. I do know what right and wrong is. Whatever makes you happy without hurting other people is a big plus in my book.

I am beginning to understand how you have come about having the opinions about race that you do. I also was a minority in high school. I went to Carman-Ainsworth. Not quite 80% was Black, with a good sampling of Arabs as well.

While I don't agree with a lot of what you say, I respect what you want.

originally posted by: LOSTinAMERICA
a reply to: seeker1963

No, the drugs themselves are making people insane. Legalize it and watch the entire nation look like the walking dead. I'm tired of seeing the freaks. I'm tired of combat locking all my # up also. Make pot legal and destroy the rest. That's the only concession I can give about the matter and I don't even smoke pot.

Well then, we can agree to disagree per this thread isn't about that!

But I look forward to debating you in the future on a topic that does address it!

originally posted by: DrJunk

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
I dont think it has anything to do with racism tho, see thats where we differ on this, because I think this is a product of a loss of values ......Id ont believe thats caused by any racism

I agree that it is on a loss of values, but that loss comes from the hopelessness caused by generational poverty... which in turn is caused by racism. If it wasn't caused by racism, we would see these same themes of hopelessness played out across multiple ethnicities that experience widespread generational poverty. Pockets of the rural south, for instance, have what is now popularized as "redneck" culture, which in itself stems from generational poverty. This is not the same as inner city culture, which is predominately black, and nearly inescapable for people of a certain skin color.

Have you ever spent time in the inner city? Your premise is ridiculous. You would know it if you did.

Most inner city families I've spent time with have HIGH values. They value God. They value family. They value their community.

Your entire premise is so flawed and baseless. Go to the inner cities. They are not just black. Everywhere I've gone I've found solid, salt of the earth, people. They have jobs. They have homes.

And yes, there is a thug subculture that they dislike as much as anybody. But they don't blame it on racism. They see kids wanting to make money and abandoning the values they were raised with. They don't raise their kids to be thugs.

And getting out of the inner city is SO common. The suburban neighborhoods that border the inner city are now about 60/40, black to white where I live. 20 years ago it was 90% white. And guess what? THEY ALL GET ALONG! They're neighbors.

Do the white people talk sh%# about the black people behind their backs? Yes. And do the black people talk sh$# about the white people behind their backs. For sure. And do they still get along and go to sporting events at schools and dance recitals, and plays, and graduations? Yep.

And education?

I've spent time working with teachers at an inner city school in Brooklyn. The kids there LOVE to learn. The teachers LOVE to teach. 10% of the kids are hoodlums. One of the kids just got accepted at NYU.

Know what they need?

Encouragement and leadership. They need a belief that they can be successful, not being told that the deck is stacked against them so they can't.

a reply to: DrJunk

I have reason to be racist. I chose not to be. I've seen the good along with the bad. I've seen white people who were pure evil also and not just the rich banker types. The cut throat drug addicts who would rape your sister and steal to get another fix. The inner-city is the breeding ground for that kind of #. I had to let that go. Birds of a feather flock together. That's a constant.