Israel used Gaza as testing ground for new weapons

Ummm...so what, exactly is the conspiracy here, again?

New weapons are developed, tested, and ultimately used in war, to kill people. Laboratory -> Battlefield is the general progression. This is normal.

We did it in 'Nam, we've been doing it rather enthusiastically to Iraq for the past 20 years, and other governments do it wherever they can. Nothing new. Certainly no surprise that the Israelis were doing it, they're one of the single most top-notch militaries in world history. It would be pretty shocking if they didn't, really.

Is the contention that Israel should not have used any 'new' weapons? Only 'old' weapons should be acceptable? I'm sure Israel could flatten the strip hundreds of times over with 'stupid' conventional munitions alone, with a lot less risk for life on their part, and a lot more 'collateral damage' on the Pallys, to boot. They could have wiped them from the map long ago, and been done with. When they go in and try to root out their enemy individually, the IDF puts themselves at significant risk. There is nothing forcing Israel to do this but their own moral imperative. If they want, they can have a fresh parking lot all the way to the Med within minutes and there isn't a thing anybody could do to stop them. Not the US, not the UN, and certainly not "the neighbors". There would be a lot of squawking, but I think not much in the way of reprisal. Pretty much any conventional threat they can handle...well, handily, but I don't think there's an appetite for the Sampson option on anyone's part. (Scary as it is, sometimes MAD keeps the peace.)

Yet...this has not happened, despite multiple provocations over the course of over half a century.

Ultimately...I'm seeing nothing here but indignation based upon the premise that Israel was using 'new' weapons. (Hoping that fletchettes aren't what is being considered 'new' here, as shrapnel has been around since the first firecracker.) If this is indeed the premise, why is there no mention of the Pallys constantly upping their bottle rocket and suicide vest tech? (Speaking of suicide vests, I seem to recall that many of these use fletchettes, nails, ball bearings, and other nasties...but again, I digress.) The malicious intent and activity is there...they're just... really, really bad at this game and apparently either don't realize it or are too prideful to admit it.

Truly, I've never really "understood" it all, despite being well-versed in the history. It's easy to look at things purely militarily/logically, but the cultural clashes and remnants of imperial screwups run deep in this area, making people prone to do some pretty nutso stuff at any given moment. Always an unpredictable situation. There's just a lot of things that seem very, very contradictory to me in the whole situation, and from *both* sides.

a reply to: Q

We did it in 'Nam, we've been doing it rather enthusiastically to Iraq for the past 20 years, WE .

they're one of the single most top-notch militaries in world history. not to mention land robbers

thanks for stopping by on your way to the continuim

a reply to: douglas5

Yes, I said "WE", as I am an American and WE were responsible for the greatest portion of the described military activity (for better or for worse, it's history). I do sometimes forget to modify my verbiage to reflect ATS' wonderful multinational constituency. It was an apt description from my POV, however, regardless of whatever ephemeral indignation you meant to imply with your response.

This does not limit the activity to the US...every military has done it since time immemorial. Just as the US was testing new stuff in 'Nam, so were the USSR and China. Goes all the way back to that first hypothetical 'monkey with rock' who clobbered the opposing monkey who didn't use one. Do you think bleeding hearts went to the temple in Egypt and etched sarcastic hieroglyphics about the Hyksos because they invaded by chariot, which the Egyptians didn't have? No, of course not. They made their own chariots and took it to 'em.

I ask again: what is the conspiracy here? I see lots of indignation, but little substance. Yep, new weapons and tactics used on both sides, check. Very nasty shrapnel used by both sides, check. I don't see any great moral difference in one side dropping a shrapnel bomb and the other loading up a shrapnel suicide vest, if that is indeed the implication. The end result is very similar - nasty injuries and dead people when either is used.

FWIW, I wish none of this were going on. It's kind of stupid really, the way this area has been at each other's throats for the past few thousand years. Nobody wants to be on the receiving end of any of this 'tech', which I guess is why they were created in the first place. The feuds run deep in this area, for sure.

The point I was trying to make in posting is that there isn't a moral high ground to be had from a technology standpoint on the fletchettes. Shrapnel is shrapnel, and nobody wants any part of it, no matter who's lobbing it and how. Both sides of this conflict have utilized the referred to technologies.

I saw no mention of 'land robbing' in the OP, other than the oft-suggested "return to pre-1967 borders". This seems an attempt at deflection from the subject at hand on your part (bad form, good sir!)...but can you describe exactly why you feel Israel should be obligated to do so? I see that this is often suggested as a 'solution' to this issue. Would this not equate to an attempt to negate the outcome of the 6-day war? On the face of it, the losing (military) side has failed to accomplish their governments' collective political goals to remove Israel by force. In doing so, they lost land those governments formerly controlled, which ticked them off. Having realized their military bid had not only failed them but incurred territorial losses, those entities seem to now be trying to erase the impact of that loss politically. That's how I see it, but I am always keenly interested in other views. I simply haven't seen anything credible that indicates the situation is otherwise.

After all...it's only by the combination of multiple views that we get the real story, in my experience. Firsthand knowledge is best, but as we're not omniscient (shh, don't tell anyone), sometimes other's viewpoints are all we have to develop our own from. Multiple-source info may conflict, but points of commonality will generally point to the real deal. The more info you have to apply to a problem, the greater the probability that the solution is a correct one. Not that this is 'my problem', but a greater understanding of our world and it's inhabitants is always...well, greater.

BTW, it's "continuum"...I'd tell the others you said "Hi!",but they already know...and I always liked that Picard. Mon capitan was so much fun! Starfleet hasn't provided me with anyone more interesting before or since.

a reply to: Q

Children in Gaza are saying But why do we go to school and study? We will only be killed in the next war.””After three wars in six years, how can these children live a normal life?” half of the 1.8 million population is aged 14 and under, children paid a terrible price.

Or is it to breed a new generation of people that hate them as most of the world does More than 500 children were killed – around a third of them 12 and under – and they made up more than a quarter of the wounded.

Yet if one Israeli is killed it is a disaster shouted round the world with all the moaning of Shylock himself screaming for flesh

Maybe it is time someone armed Palestine on a equal footing ,rather than the fireworks they use and have 5 people in a Jewish photo pointing at a hole in the ground saying hey look

jewishvoiceforpeace.org...

www.palestinechronicle.com...

originally posted by: douglas5
a reply to: Q

Children in Gaza are saying But why do we go to school and study? We will only be killed in the next war.””After three wars in six years, how can these children live a normal life?” half of the 1.8 million population is aged 14 and under, children paid a terrible price.

How about their parents stop attacking Israel then? If they stop attacking Israel there will be peace over there. But as we have seen, the Islamic terrorists do not want peace.

More than 500 children were killed – around a third of them 12 and under – and they made up more than a quarter of the wounded.

Well, that is what happens when the Islamic terrorists use them as human shields....

Maybe it is time someone armed Palestine on a equal footing

Or better still, the Islamic terrorists just stop attacking Israel! Except they do not want to stop, as their charter states Israel must be destroyed.

a reply to: hellobruce

www.jimstonefreelance.com...

www.jimstonefreelance.com...


There had to be a reason why Israel blocked the fact finding mission Israel claims that only 50 or so lives were lost.
With the complete destruction of Palestinian public records

Aboud Church, Israel destroyed it for no reason.

Before, a priest is gesturing "we mean no harm" Remember, this is a 1,800 year old Christian church

www.jimstonefreelance.com...

the supposed Muslim agressors in posession of the land around this church for the last 1,600 years did nothing to harm it, it was in fact destroyed by Israeli tanks and bulldozers in June of 2002. This type of Israeli agression is so common that it did not make news.

www.jimstonefreelance.com...

An oppressed people will go to extremes to make
a point,


WARNING GRAPHIC PHOTOS

originally posted by: douglas5
Aboud Church, Israel destroyed it for no reason.

So storing terrorist explosives in a church is not a reason to destroy the explosives?

www.jimstonefreelance.com...

You link does not work!

Still waiting for proof Israel tested new weapons in Gaza, funny how you are unable to show what you claimed!

a reply to: hellobruce

“Most of the weapons that were used to kill hundreds of civilians in Gaza contained depleted uranium. They also used new weapons that even international experts were unable to figure out their types,” Gaza Bomb Disposal Squad’s Ahmad Abudayyah said.

www.islamicinvitationturkey.com...

the Palestinian Center for Human Rights (PCHR) said millions of kilograms of explosives were indiscriminately dumped on civilians in Gaza.#

The Zionist entity is using internationally-proscribed weapons in Gaza, Palestinian doctors and rights activists said.

slamicinvitationturkey.com/2014/07/10/zionist-entity-using-internationally-banned-weapons-in-gaza-assault/

1,266 Palestinian children under the age of 15 were abducted by Israeli forces throughout 2014.

originally posted by: douglas5
“Most of the weapons that were used to kill hundreds of civilians in Gaza contained depleted uranium.

So which weapons were those exactly?

They also used new weapons that even international experts were unable to figure out their types,

Which "international experts" exactly, and what were the qualifications etc. of those "international experts"?

"

Experts also say that Israeli forces used internationally banned munitions like Flechette shells, which contain depleted uranium and other chemical agents.

Flechette shells are not banned - care to show exactly where they are banned? They also do not contain depleted uranium, nor is depleted uranium a chemical agent! What other chemical agents did they use exactly?

So all you have are made up stories devoid of facts.

Israel used Gaza as testing ground for new weapons

Defunct Boeing Laser Project “Mysteriously Reappears”
www.veteranstoday.com...


Human Rights
Did Israel fire chemical weapons on Gaza last month?
electronicintifada.net...

israel is Developing 'Ethnic Bomb' for Growing Biological Weapons Arsenal
www.ihr.org...


Israel’s nuclear, biological and chemical weapons
nation.com.pk...


Should U.S. Bomb Israel's Chemical, Biological Plant?
www.twf.org...


Development and deployment of chemical weapons by Israel, 1974-2004
www.vtjp.org...


Israel firing experimental weapons at Gaza’s civilians, say doctors
electronicintifada.net...


Candy for Israeli soldiers, cancer for Gaza’s civilians
electronicintifada.net...


Evidence of War Crimes
www.vtjp.org...


Jewish Ex-Interior Minister To Be Investigated in Buenos Aires Bombing
forward.com...


Soldiers’ confessions prove shocking Israeli Instagram photo soldiers not just a few bad apples
electronicintifada.net...


Disabled Palestinians unable to escape Israeli air strike
www.theguardian.com...

originally posted by: ToneDeaf
israel is Developing 'Ethnic Bomb' for Growing Biological Weapons Arsenal
www.ihr.org...

Oh dear, you use a Jew hating site for a source attacking Israel!

The Institute for Historical Review (IHR), founded in 1978, is an organization primarily devoted to publishing and promoting books and essays that deny established facts concerning the Nazi genocide of Jews.[2][3][4][5][6] It is considered by many scholars as the world's leading Holocaust denial organization.