Interesting article on Ukraine shooting down MH17

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

See that would be true, if the Ukraine flew that version. The Su-25SM has been upgraded to carry the R-73. But they don't fly SMs.

SM are old upgraded Su-25.

Ukraine upgrades themselves and calls them M1.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

If it really was the modified Sukoi, my bet is the Elbit of Israel did the mods.

Ukraine do the modification themselves.

Su-25 M1 Frogfoot

That could be, but Elbit of Israel also does mods on the aircraft. Maybe Ukraine performed the mods under supervised license from Elbit?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

They are about to run out of Su 25's and it's variants to blame which is why he is now saying the pilot was directed by the US military.

I said nothing of that sort.

I said the pilot made a mistake and with NATO advisers working in the Ukraine at that time, they also had direct contact with the US military.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I said the pilot made a mistake and with NATO advisers working in the Ukraine at that time, they also had direct contact with the US military.

REally...

Your direct reply...

Because it was a mistake of and Ukrainian pilot immediately covered up by pointing towards Russia/Separatist ordered by the direct lines which the Ukraine had with the US military...?

Want to try that again?

And you mention nothing of NATO...imagine that your trying to change your reply just as the Russian tried with the SU 25 wiki page. Didn't work for them and it won't work for you.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

The pilot had not much to do with the possible cover story and I said nothing about the pilot being directed to shootdown MH17.

So you try to twist something which isn`t there as usual.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

If it was a mistake what did he think he was shooting at? Why did Ukraine deploy a fighter jet when the rebels have no jets of their own?

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

The pilot had not much to do with the possible cover story and I said nothing about the pilot being directed to shootdown MH17.

So now the story changes from your original reply that you denied saying to something else...why does that not surprise me?

And the pilot had nothing to do with it because there was no pilot involved, as you try and change the story you fail to realize what you said first which is amazing to say the least.

Now that your SU 25 theory has been fully debunked your story goes now to the missile which has been debuunked so you go for something even more far fetched...keep the stories changing as this is getting better than any movie Hollywood copuld come up with.

So you try to twist something which isn`t there as usual.

No twist as you are the one who can't seem to stick to one story, but keep them coming it is very amusing to watch you try so hard yet fail even harder.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Why did Ukraine deploy a fighter jet when the rebels have no jets of their own?

An answer that has yet been answered when asked in many other threads about Ukraine.

Now if you go by what he thinks is the truth...the SU 25 was upgraded with new electronics that changes the whole engineering of the plane that makes it not just a ground attack plane, but also a new hybrid fighter that can do both roles.

Those must be some damn good electronics upgrades they used.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

The Ukrainians claimed a Russian Mig-29 was shooting planes of them down with R-27 missiles, didn`t you read my earlier posts ?

Here`s another link to that story :

Source

This story was put out on the 17 July, and the eyewitness claimed this actual happened on the 17th also and not at the 16th as to what the Ukrainians said.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

So then you admit that Russia has violated Ukrainian airspace and invaded. In that case how do you know a Russian jet didn't down MH17. We know they have jets with the capabilities required including Su-25 variants. Why would a Ukrainian pilot mistake a commercial jetliner coming from Western Europe for a Russian jet. It would be much more likely for a Russian pilot to mistake it for a Ukrainian cargo plane.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

The Ukrainians claimed a Russian Mig-29 was shooting planes of them down with R-27 missiles, didn`t you read my earlier posts ?

And yet what does that have to do with the topic at hand...you know MH17 and the SU 25 you still think did the shooting?

The Ukrainians would still send a fighter to that battle not a ground attack plane to fight another fighter jet. Still trying to grasp at those straws aren't you?

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Why would a Ukrainian pilot mistake a commercial jetliner coming from Western Europe for a Russian jet. It would be much more likely for a Russian pilot to mistake it for a Ukrainian cargo plane.

You would think that wouldn't you, but I guess the Russians have the ability to portray it's planes as though they are coming from the west without actually being in the same airspace.

What clever devils those Russians are.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

We know they have jets with the capabilities required including Su-25 variants.

Which should also be noted that the Ukraine military doesn't use.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

I say it`s a possibility the Russians were doing that, just as I said that I think the Russians took out most of the Ukrainian army late Aug/early Sep in two weeks with just a few battalions and Separatists who had been trained for 4 months.

It`s much more likely the Ukrainian pilot panicked just as what the eyewitness said.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

So the eyewitness was in the cockpit with the pilot? Why would Ukraine put a jumpy pilot in the cockpit of one of the most expensive and limited in their arsenal?

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Really ?

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Really ?

Yes, really?

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I think the Russians took out most of the Ukrainian army late Aug/early Sep in two weeks with just a few battalions and Separatists who had been trained for 4 months.

But the Russians didn't have anything to do with the separatists, or are you now admitting to Russia's involvement?

Your story changes by the hour here lately...having a hard time remembering your prior statements?

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Really? You seriously need to fact check. In 2012, Russia had upgraded 30 aircraft to the SM standard and wants 80 done by 2020. The little information on the M1 upgrade shows a different upgrade than the SM.

That sure sounds like an old upgrade alright.