Roswell for Dummies. :)

a reply to: 111DPKING111

Would love to hear peoples thoughts on the memory metal so many people actually handled.

We have had in our possession, exotic materials that fit the description of the debris recovered during the Roswell incident.

"Rubber Metal"

Popular Science, August 2004

"Smart skin" holds promise for morphing wings and wearable computers.

Terrible, horrible things can be done to this millimeters-thick patch of shimmering material crafted by chemists at NanoSonic in Blacksburg, Virginia. Twist it, stretch it double, fry it to 200°C, douse it with jet fuel the stuff survives. After the torment, it snaps like rubber back to its original shape, all the while conducting electricity like solid metal. "Any other material would lose its conductivity," says Jennifer Hoyt Lalli, NanoSonic's director of nanocomposites.

The abused substance is called Metal Rubber... The company's small office has been flooded with calls from Fortune 500 companies and government agencies eager to test Metal Rubber's use in everything from artificial muscles to smart clothes to shape-shifting airplane wings.

... its 12-inch-by-12-inch samples... take custom-built robots up to three days to create. ...Metal Rubber, a product of nanotechnology, must be fabricated molecule by molecule.

The manufacturing process, called electrostatic self-assembly, starts with two buckets of water-based solutions, one filled with positively charged metallic ions, the other with oppositely charged elastic polymers. The robot dips a charged substrate (glass, for example) alternately from one bucket to the next. The dipping slowly builds up tight, organized layers of molecules, bonded firmly by opposing charges. Afterward the substrate is removed, leaving a freestanding sheet of Metal Rubber....

----------------------------------------------------------------------

DISCOVER Magazine, Vol. 25 No. 04, April 2004


Glassy Metals

Harder, stronger, and better--the material of the future

The wispy metal strip in my hands is 8 inches long, 1 inch wide, and as thin as aluminum foil. "Try to tear it," says William Johnson, a materials science professor at Caltech in Pasadena. I pull first gently, but soon with all my might. No go.

"See if you can cut this," suggests Johnson's postgraduate assistant Jason Kang, handing me a mirror-bright piece of the same metal. It's an inch long, a quarter inch wide, and thinner than a dime. I bear down with a heavy-duty pair of wire cutters. The metal will not cut. I try again, squeezing with both hands until my fingers ache. Nothing.

A steel sphere dropped on a rigid plate of amorphous metal bounces like a rubber Super Ball. Conventional metals would dent as the crystals that compose them dislocate. But the plate--an alloy of zirconium, titanium, nickel, copper, and beryllium--has no crystals. Any atoms in the alloy that are displaced under impact quickly snap all the way back, enabling the sphere to continue bouncing with very little loss of energy.

It's all astounding, yet oddly familiar. In the typical science fiction film circa 1950, there's that scene in which scientists return from the just-landed flying saucer and tell the Army brass that no tool known to humankind can cut, burn, bend, or otherwise scar the hull. But the metal in front of me is decidedly terrestrial in origin

It is called metallic glass, or amorphous metal, and it appears to be nothing less than an entirely new class of material that can be used to build lighter, stronger versions of anything. ... it is two to three times the strength of conventional alloys...

... If upon solidifying the resulting metallic "button" is reflective like a mirror, he knows instantly that he has made a glass. The surface reflects for the same reason the surface of a liquid reflectsthe amorphous atoms form a smooth skin that bounces light uniformly.

.... Analysis of the thin ribbons hinted that a heavy hunk of material, thick enough to be formed into structural shapes, would be like nothing seen on Earth before. Conventional metals dent, tear, and rust because of defects known as grain boundaries and dislocations, in which the crystals are pushed out of alignment and provide entry points for oxidation. Amorphous metals have no crystals that could be affected by such imperfections and hence are springy, extremely strong, and corrosion-proof.

..."Amorphous metal is really more like a plastic than anything else," says... Johnson.... "What we really have here is a metal polymer."

...Strength is not its only virtue. It can also be formed like a plastic... Better yet, it can be readily made into a foam. The fact that amorphous metal is thick and like plastic when molten permits the formation of a foam panel that is 99 percent air but roughly 100 times stronger than polystyrene. A sandwich made of two thin sheets of amorphous metal flanking amorphous foam would be strong, light, insulating, fireproof... Such panels could form buildings, ship hulls, airplanes, and car bodies.

...On the military front, the Army is testing an armor-piercing bullet called a kinetic energy penetrator for use by ground-attack jets and armored vehicles, while the Navy evaluates lightweight amorphous-alloy fragmentation bombs.

roswellproof.homestead.com...

a reply to: skyeagle409

Interesting stuff, but I wanted to know how compelling people found Bragalia's findings that memory metal has its origins from research done at wright patterson, shortly after the Roswell incident.

Prior articles in this series showed that Wright Patterson Air Force Base contracted Battelle Memorial Institute -in the months immediately following the Roswell crash in 1947- to conduct studies on memory metal based on a Nickel and Titanium alloy. Similar material that could "remember" its original shape when crumpled or deformed was reported at the Roswell crash debris site. Wright Patterson -the base that contracted Battelle- was the very base to which the Roswell debris was flown after the crash.

Evidence for the Roswell-Battelle Connection was drawn from:

Footnotes that were located within military studies to a Battelle report on memory metal conducted by the Institute for Wright Patterson in the late 1940s

The fact that - although footnotes citing these reports have been found- the actual reports are "missing" despite repeated efforts

Supporting information provided by two USAF Generals (including one from Wright Patterson) on the composition of the debris and the existence of the analysis reports

A senior-level Battelle scientist's confession that he had analyzed the UFO crash debris when employed at the Institute

A historical "backtracking" of the technical literature on the development of shape-recovery metals- leading back to the doors of Battelle and Wright Patterson, to late 1940s exotic metal reports and to the Roswell Incident

A telling examination of the life of Battelle's Dr. Howard Cross as both metallurgist and UFO researcher- showing his likely involvement in the debris analysis

a reply to: 111DPKING111

Interesting stuff, but I wanted to know how compelling people found Bragalia's findings that memory metal has its origins from research done at wright patterson, shortly after the Roswell incident.

For years, I have been trying to steer people away from Area 51 to Wright-Patterson AFB. It was at Wright-Patterson AFB where the Air Force issued its 1948 EOTS and where Senator Barry Goldwater asked permission to take a look in the "Blue Room" at the base. Here is his letter.

The 'UFO Letters' Of Senator Barry Goldwater

Barry Goldwater
United States Senate
Washington, D.C.[postcode]

March 28, 1975

Mr. Schlomo Arnon
U.C.D.A. Experimental College
308 Westwood Plaza
Los Angeles, California 90024

Dear Mr. Arnon:

The subject of UFOs is one that has interested me
for some long time. About ten or twelve years ago
I made an effort to find out what was in the building
at Wright Patterson Air Force Base where the information
is stored that has been collected by the Air Force, and
I was understandably denied this request. It is
still classified above Top Secret. I have, however,
heard that there is a plan under way to release some,
if not all, of this material in the near future. I'm
just as anxious to see this material as you are, and I
hope we will not have to wait too much longer.

Sincerely

[Signature]

www.rense.com...

I also find the testimony of these folks interesting.

AF ROSWELL STUDY CONTRIBUTOR ADMITS "IT WAS ET!"

The Lt. Colonel who was a major contributor to the Air Force's official 1997 study that concluded that the Roswell ET crash of 1947 is a "myth"- now states that the Air Force's Roswell report is itself a lie. The Colonel goes further to state that what he really believes to be true is that aliens actually did crash to Earth decades ago! He adds that he was "used" and that the the author of the Air Force report "was on a mission" with no interest in discovering what really happened at Roswell.

Amazingly, Madson believes that an extraterrestrial crash actually had happened - and that the bodies were stored for a period of time at Wright Patterson! He bases this on the fact that he himself had served at Wright Patterson in the early 1950's -before going to Holloman AFB to conduct the crash dummy tests. He personally had heard -just a few years after the Roswell event- directly from "others who would have been positioned to know" that there was a "very secure facility" at the base that served as the storage place for the alien bodies that were recovered from a crash sometime before he began employment at Wright.

groups.yahoo.com...


General Arthur E. Exon, Commanding Officer, Wright-Patterson AFB

(RUCU) (C&S, p. 191, 194)
"...They knew they had something new in their hands. The metal and material was unknown to anyone I talked to. Whatever they found, I never heard what the results were. A couple of guys thought it might be Russian, but the overall consensus was that the pieces were from space. Everyone from the White House on down knew that what we had found was not of this world within 24 hours of our finding it. ...Roswell was the recovery of a craft from space."

roswellproof.homestead.com...


June Crain, Wright-Patterson AFB Secretary Interview

June Crain handled Roswell debris

www.ufocasebook.com...

I do think that some sort of unidentified fly object crashed at Roswell. However, I don't think the Government used the place as a "secrete camp for Aliens."

A man said alien was fake and made a video. But in that new video alien was looking even more realistic. He cut aliens organs and said "as you can see this alien is fake" but alien was looking real and bleeding.. You can see video on youtube.

The Roswell story starts to fall apart when you start to notice that everybody has a story. Stories galore. The only way more people could have been involved and more people could have had stories is if the crashed saucer was put in the Roswell 4th of July parade and had little alien guys waving at the crowd.

But... more stories, more credibility, right? Nope. In fact, the opposite. The more stories you have, the bigger the "event" becomes and the less likely it becomes that nobody has anything to back up what they're saying. A couple people see a crashed saucer, it gets taken away, fine. It would be pretty unlikely that they would get a photo or grab a piece of debris and get away with it. But you start to involve hundreds of people and you start wondering where the guy is who slipped the piece of debris in his pocket. Or the photographer who made a secret set of prints for himself. Or somebody somewhere who has something besides an unverifiable story. A report. A photo. A requisition for a truck. A change in orders. Anything.

The bigger and more important something is, the harder it is to keep secret. It's hard now, and it was likely even harder in 1947, when you couldn't even keep your press officer from releasing a nutty story to the newswires about a flying saucer.

a reply to: Blue Shift

The bigger and more important something is, the harder it is to keep secret. It's hard now, and it was likely even harder in 1947, when you couldn't even keep your press officer from releasing a nutty story to the newswires about a flying saucer.

it was the military that was responsible for the captured flying saucer story. First, the military said that it recovered a flying saucer, which it would not have done if not true. Shortly afterward, the military said that it was a weather balloon. In 1994, the Air Force trashed its 47-year weather balloon story and claimed that it was a top secret Project Mogul balloon train #4, which it said was launched on June 4, 1947, but when I checked, I found that Project Mogul balloons were not classified and that there was no Project Mogul balloon launch on June 4, 1947. Sometimes, Project Mogul balloons were recovered by civilians for rewards.

Rancher Sid West recovers Project Mogul balloon train

June 8, Sun. Rancher, Sid West, found balloon train 25 mi south of High Rolls in mountains.
Contacted him and made arragements to recover equipment Monday. Got all recordings of balloon flights. Took Treland, Mears, Winton, Olsen to Alamogordo to catch train this pm

June 9, Mon. Bill Godbee and Don Reynolds went out to Sid West's ranch south of High Rolls and broughtback recovered balloons- clock, 2 sadiosondes, sonobuoy and microphone and lower part of dribbler. Bill Edmondson cleaning up hanger and sorting out equipment of NYU. Worked today on balloon records (GR8) from north hanger. No definite signals obtained. Took inventory
MRs.

www.dod.mil...

I later found that the head of Project Mogul, Charles Moore, and his team of scientist and engineers in New Mexico, reported that they were tracking flying saucers over New Mexico.

How Scientist Tracked a Flying Saucer

In its January issue TRUE said that the flying saucers are real and interplanetary. Its story was widely supported by the nation's press and radio. TRUE's findings are here confirmed by Commander McLaughlin, a rocket expert at White Sands Proving Ground, who worked independently of this magazine's investigation.

He reveals how a troup of Navy men and scientists tracked a flying disk with a precision instrument and tells of flights he and others witnessed.

www.nicap.org...

I might add that during the week the military reported that it recovered a flying saucer, the military encountered flying saucers over Muroc AFB, CA.

MUROC AFB INCIDENT, CALIFORNIA
July 8, 1947

Series of sightings over MUROC AFB and Rogers Dry Lake, secret test base, California:

Morning: Two spherical or disc-like UFOs joined by a third object. (XII)
Crew of technicians saw white-aluminum UFO with distinct oval outline descending,
moving against wind, (II).
Afternoon: Thin "metallic" UFO climbed, dove, oscillated over field, also seen by test pilot in vicinity.
(XII)
F-51 pilot watched a flat object "of light-reflecting nature" pass above his plane. No
known aircraft were in the area. (XII)

Section II: Technicians at Secret Test Base Observe Mechanical UFO

At Muroc AFB (now Edwards AFB) and adjacent Rogers Dry Lake, scientists and engineers test and develop the latest aircraft, including secret projects. Althoroughly familiar with anything that flies, the base technical personnel had no explanation for the UFOs which maneuvered over the area July 8, 1947. Twice that morning, disc-shaped objects were observed cavorting overhead. Then about 11:50 AM, a crew of technicians at Rogers saw a round white, apparently metallic object descending, moving west nortwest against the wind. They observed thick projections on top which crossed each other at intervals, suggesting either rotation or oscillation. In their official report they stated:

"It was man-made, as evidenced by the outline and functional appearance." (5)

nuforc.org...

a reply to: skyeagle409

I've already said most of what I want to say in this thread (I think - But it was about 6 months ago so maybe I haven't ).

At the end of the day Roswell is whatever you want to make of it. You either believe that headline in the Roswell Daily Record and that aliens crashed to Earth and all the rest of the cover-up involved to conceal the truth.

RAAF Captures Flying Saucer on Ranch in Roswell Region

Or you find it strange that the memory metal was not so unbreakable as described by Marcel and other. Mainly because it was broken into hundreds of pieces scattered across the pasture land. Then you find the descriptions from the initial newspaper reports of the debris as tinfoil, paper, tape and sticks as seemingly very earth like and too coincidental to be the remnants of an alien spacecraft.




However as a favour to anyone wanting to research Wright-Patterson and it's secrets then you may like this for a little entertainment.



And this UFO Crash Secrets at Wright Patterson Air Force Base for a little light reading.

a reply to: mirageman

Then you find the descriptions from the initial newspaper reports of the debris as tinfoil, paper, tape and sticks as seemingly very earth like and too coincidental to be the remnants of an alien spacecraft.

The case is a mess, but I have read explanations for the mundane Brazel description on various sites - 1, 2, 3

BS: The first-hand Roswell witnesses say that what was found was foil-like foil, balsa-like balsa sticks, rubber-like rubber sheets, paper-like paper parchment, plastic tape-like tape, with symbols on some of the material, plus some filaments or threads -- all of which added up to a total of about 5 pounds of material (according to Mac Brazel who was the discoverer).

STF: The above statement reflects what was printed in the Roswell Daily Record on July 9, 1947, after Mack Brazel had been detained and reprogrammed by the US Government. It does not reflect first hand testimony as obtained from Jesse Marcel, Jesse Marcel Jr., Bill Brazel, Loretta Proctor, Judd Roberts, and many others as described, for example in my 1992 book "Crash at Corona" and Bill Moore's 49 page 1985 Paper "Crashed Saucers: Evidence in Search of Proof "(Contrary to Brad's assertion below I was not a co author). Witnesses did say some wreckage had the WEIGHT of balsa wood but could not be burned, broken or cut. They said other material was LIKE foil but couldn't be torn and could be folded over and over and would unfold on its own. They did not describe any tape. Dr. Marcel described strange symbols on I-beam like pieces. We all tend to describe the new in terms of the old. LIKE does not mean "the same as" especially when clear cut differences are enunciated.

If anyone wants to see several Roswell specialist duke it out, be sure to check out the 2nd link and read the comments section.

However for me, it does come down to this memory metal. Unlike the missing evidence thread, the AF is claiming this was a mogul balloon (as do the skeptics). There should be no unknown here, we should be able to put our hands on this. Instead of the AF closing the case on this, which it should be able to do, we have Bragalia with evidence to suggest it was back engineered at Wright-Patterson.

An episode of UFO hunters goes into this as well, but they come up with a different metal.

a reply to: mirageman

I've already said most of what I want to say in this thread (I think - But it was about 6 months ago so maybe I haven't ).

At the end of the day Roswell is whatever you want to make of it. You either believe that headline in the Roswell Daily Record and that aliens crashed to Earth and all the rest of the cover-up involved to conceal the truth.

I already know that the Roswell Incident involved extraterrestrials. As the Roswell incident was unfolding in New Mexico, the Air Force was encountering flying saucers over Muroc AFB, CA. When Congressman Steven Schiff began his investigation, the Air Force refused to cooperate, which is why Congressman Schiff called upon the GAO. All Roswell cover stories have been debunked and it is amazing how easy the Air Force was able to convince the public Project Mogul that Project Mogul was top secret when there were occasions when civilians recovered Project Mogul balloons for rewards. Now, the clincher, photos of Project Mogul balloons and details of their experiments were publicized in newspapers around the country in 1947. Check this link about Project Mogul balloons from the Air Force.

1994 Roswell Report

Conclusion

The Air Force research did not locate or develop any information that the "Roswell Incident" was a UFO event. All available official materials, although they do not directly address Roswell per se, indicate that the most likely source of the wreckage recovered from the Brazel Ranch was from one of the Project Mogul balloon trains. Although that project was TOP SECRET at the time, there was also no specific indication found to indicate an official pre-planned cover story was in place to explain an event such as that which ultimately happened.

muller.lbl.gov...

In its 1994 Roswell Report, the Air Force claimed that Project Mogul was a TOP SECRET project but let's take a look to see how Project Mogul was publicized in newspapers around the country. Review the link to see the publicized photos of Project Mogul balloons.

* Newark (N.J.) Sunday News, July 13, 1947, Front Page

Balloons---Not Discs
Princeton Gadget Soars 20 Miles High; Records No Atomic Explosions

* New York Herald Tribune, July 13

28 Balloons Fail To Send Reports on Cosmic Rays
--Attain 20-Mile Altitude, but Equipment Does Not Give Nuclear Explosion Data

* Newark Evening News, July 14

Sky Experiment Apparatus Found
Flight in Stratosphere Fails to Show Nuclear Explosions Data

roswellproof.homestead.com...

For 47 years, the Air Force claimed that a weather balloon was responsible for the Roswell incident and in 1994, it threw out its weather balloon story and claimed that the Roswell incident involved a TOP SECRET Project Mogul balloon train #4 that was launched on June 4, 1947, but a review of Project Mogul balloon flight records show that no such flight occurred on June 4, 1947. To sum it up, Project Mogul balloons were NOT classified TOP SECRET. Of the four stories released by the Air Force, only the original flying saucer story remains intact.

a reply to: mirageman

Or you find it strange that the memory metal was not so unbreakable as described by Marcel and other. Mainly because it was broken into hundreds of pieces scattered across the pasture land. Then you find the descriptions from the initial newspaper reports of the debris as tinfoil, paper, tape and sticks as seemingly very earth like and too coincidental to be the remnants of an alien spacecraft.

The weather balloon rawin debris in Ramey's office was pulled off the shelf and deliberately destroyed by military personnel and planted as noted my Thomas Dubose and Jesse Marcel, both of whom posed with the debris. Weather balloon rawin devices of balsa wood and tin foil do not leave large debris fields and in many cases, they are recovered intact. Check it out.

Brig. Gen. Thomas Jefferson Dubose and the Weather Balloon Cover Story

Gen. Dubose was the highest ranking Air Force officer with direct knowledge of the Roswell case who went on record about the weather balloon cover-up plus other important details about what was really happening in Gen. Roger Ramey's inner circle.

Why the cold shoulder from the Air Force for this high-ranking officer? Quite simply because Dubose's statements contradicted the Air Force's party line. He stated that there was indeed a cover-up ordered from Washington (he said he personally took the phone call from Gen. McMullen) and that the weather balloon debris shown in the photos was not what was found at Roswell.

It was instead a cover story designed to get the press off their backs and "put out the fire." Dubose insisted that even he never saw the actual Roswell debris (meaning that what was pictured in the photos was not the actual material recovered near Roswell).

roswellproof.homestead.com...

Review this message and understand that it suggest the use of a weather device to cover-up saucers.

WAR V WU A50 NL PD
KALAMAZOO MICH JUL 8
WAR DEPT

INTELLIGENCE DIV WASHDC

SUGGEST SAUCERS ARE RADAR TARGET FOR WEATHER OBSERVATION

PURPOSES CONTACT COL M DUFFY SPRING LAKE NEW JERSEY FOR INFORMATION

TONY GASTON NEWS EDITOR WKZO

WKZO.

project1947.com...

It was General Arthur E. Exon, former commanding officer at Wright-Patterson AFB, OH, who overflew the area and confirmed that there were two crash sites relating to the Roswell incident.

What many people are unaware of, is that in 1948, the U.S. Air Force, ATIC, Wright-Patterson AFB, issued its TOP SECRET Estimate of the Situation (EOTS) report that concluded that the UFOs in question are "INTERPLANETARY SPACESHIPS."

a reply to111DPKING111

I think there are a lot of problems with the Roswell story that will possibly remain unanswered even 100 years after the incident.

However I think something we can all agree on is that the US Military did not want the public to know whatever it was that fell to earth.

a reply to: mirageman

I would be right there with the doubters if not for this point. I just cant get around it, we dont have this memory metal in hand, not because the AF cant come up with it(they certainly could), but because it would blow the case wide open.

As it is, I still put this case ahead of Shag Harbor, OHare, and now Tananarive.

I know some here are better doubters than me... MM goes in the "not compelled by the Bragalia find" = )

a reply to: skyeagle409

* Newark Evening News, July 14

Sky Experiment Apparatus Found
Flight in Stratosphere Fails to Show Nuclear Explosions Data

roswellproof.homestead.com...

Good info on Mogal skyeagle, after watching numerous shows and research, I still dont feel like I have a complete handle on it all.

a reply to: 111DPKING111

Good info on Mogal skyeagle, after watching numerous shows and research, I still dont feel like I have a complete handle on it all.

Thanks!! The newspaper articles across the country detailing Project Mogul balloons and their experiments proved once and for all, that Project Mogul wasn't a secret operation after all and that the Air Force was lying in its 1994 Roswell Report when it claimed that Project Mogul was a TOP SECRET operation when it fact, the general public was well aware of Project Mogul and its experiments.

What the Air Force failed to add in its 1994 Roswell Report is that Project Mogul scientist were tracking flying saucers with their tracking instruments.

Letter Confirms Balloon Scientist Tracked Flying Saucers

2.bp.blogspot.com...

1.bp.blogspot.com...

roswellproof.homestead.com...


HOW SCIENTISTS TRACKED A FLYING SAUCER
by
Commander Robert B. McLaughlin, USN

STATEMENT OF COMMANDER ROBERT B McLAUGHLIN, USN

On a bright, clear Sunday morning in April, 1949, a detachment of Navy men and a group of scientists released a balloon from a point 57 miles northwest of the White Sands Proving Ground base. They were interested in getting weather data from the upper atmosphere, and as the balloon rose, they charted its flight as usual with a theodolite and a stop watch.

There were five observers in all; four of them coordinating the instrument data. One followed the balloon through the theodolite's telescope. One called off the readings. One recorded them, and the fourth man held the watch.

Shortly after the balloon was aloft west of the observation point, the theodolite operator swung his instrument rapidly to the east. A strange object, seen by everyone present, had crossed the path of the balloon. The instrument man, confused, had followed it. Swiftly, one of the scientists grabbed the theodolite and began tracking the missile,an accurate plot of the object's course was recorded. Analyzing this data later, I can state definitely that:

1. The object, viewed in cross section, was elliptical in shape.

2. It was about 105 feet in diameter.

3. It was flying at an altitude of approximately 56 miles. (This was determined by a ballistics expert. An object at a lower altitude on this particular bright day could not have fitted the data taken. For security reasons, I cannot go deeper into this method of calculating altitude.)

4. Its speed was about 5 miles per second.

5. At the end of its trajectory, it swerved abruptly upward, altering its angle of elevation by 5 degrees - corresponding to an increase in altitude of about 25 miles - in a period of 10 seconds. Rough calculation indicates that a force of more that 20 G's (20 times the pull of gravity) would be required to produce this elevation in this time.

6. The object was visible for 60 seconds.

7. It disappeared at an elevation of 29 degrees.

www.nicap.org...

What we have here are:

1. In July 1947, the military reported that it had recovered a flying saucer.


2. Hours later, the military said that it wasn't a flying saucer, but a weather balloon.

3. In 1994, the Air Force said that it wasn't a weather balloon, but a TOP SECRET Project Mogul balloon train #4. However, Project Mogul balloon records show that no such flight occurred and was in fact, cancelled due to clouds on June 4, 1947.

4. In 1997, the Air Force said that witnesses misidentified 4-foot alien beings in 1947 as test dummies and accident victims. However, test dummy operations did not commence until the 1950's and nowhere near Roswell.

The accident victims were involved accidents, in 1956 and 1959 years after the Roswell incident made headlines. Even the Air Force's project officer for test dummy operations, aka; "Operation Highdive" called the Air Force a liar and here is his account.

When Congressman Steven Schiff (R-NM) attempted to investigate the Roswell incident, look what happened to him

GAO Turns to Alien Turf in Probe
Washington Post
January 14, 1994

"Generally, I am a skeptic on UFOs and alien beings, but there are indications from the runaround that I got that whatever it was, it wasn't a balloon. Apparently, it's another government cover-up."

Congressman Steven Schiff, (R-NM)

And, from Senator Barry Goldwater.

Senator Barry Goldwater

United States Senate
Washington, D.C.[postcode]

October 19, 1981

Mr. Lee M. Graham

Dear Mr. Graham:

First, let me tell you that I have long ago given up acquiring
access to the so-called blue room at Wright-Patterson, as I have
had one long string of denials from chief after chief, so I
have given up.

In answer to your questions, [underlined]one is essentially
correct, I don't know of anyone who has access to the
[underlined] blue room, nor am I aware of its contents and I am
not aware of anything having been relocated. I can't answer your
question six, in fact, I can't find anyone who would answer it.

To tell you the truth, Mr. Graham, this thing has
gotten so highly classified, even though I will admit there is a
lot of it that has been released, it is just
impossible to get anything on it.

I am returning your papers because I know they are of value to
you.

Sincerely,

[signature]

Barry Goldwater

Of the four Roswell stories; the original flying saucer recovery and three cover-up stories, only the original flying saucer story remains intact, which brings up this queston;

What compels the Air Force to continue to cover-up the Roswell incident to this very day?

a reply to: skyeagle409

What compels the Air Force to continue to cover-up the Roswell incident to this very day?

Maybe every missing persons case turning into possibly an abduction case? Once you know they are here, they cant be ruled out. No one wants to admit they dont have control over their sovereign territory, I could see gun sales going through the rough, at least in countries where such freedoms still exist.

Its not that we cant handle to the truth, the truth is it would be a serious concern.

If they can keep denying it, they will. Our apathy(we cant even elect people to control the debt as we spend ourselves into oblivion like greece) and wiliness to ridicule anyone who thinks otherwise(like the governor in the phoenix lights case) makes it all too easy.

originally posted by: skyeagle409
I already know that the Roswell Incident involved extraterrestrials.

Really? Extraterrestrials from where? What planet? What star? Because Phillip Corso, Jr., said they were time-traveling humanoids from the Earth's future, which is why a lot of the "alien" technology meshed so well with technology that we already had in development.

originally posted by: skyeagle409
What compels the Air Force to continue to cover-up the Roswell incident to this very day?

Because it involved something very distasteful or disturbing that they still don't want the general public to dwell on too much. And that suggests to me that it had something to do with Werner Von Braun and the Nazi scientists working at White Sands. I've come to suspect that Werner and his gang, focusing as was always their dream on manned spaceflight, were experimenting with effects of rocket launches on corpses -- possibly even children's corpses -- in modified V-2s. Not only might some of that early data still be classified, it would obviously tarnish the image of NASA and the U.S. military to this day.

a reply to: Blue Shift

Really? Extraterrestrials from where? What planet? What star?

Not of this earth.

Because Phillip Corso, Jr., said they were time-traveling humanoids from the Earth's future, which is why a lot of the "alien" technology meshed so well with technology that we already had in development.

I have been interested in what has been coming out of Wright-Patterson AFB in regards to the Roswell incident rather than what Phil Corso had to say.

I have been aware that Air Force acknowledged in 1947, 1948 and in 1952, that the UFOs in question are "interplanetary spaceships."

I am aware that General Arthur E. Exon, who eventually became the Commanding Officer of Wright-Patterson AFB, overflew and confirmed the two Roswell crash sites.

I knew that no balloons of any kind were responsible for the Roswell incident and that the object flown to Wright-Patterson AFB was not a weather balloon. Both, Jesse Marcel and Thomas Dubose, the individuals who posed with the debris in Ramey's office, confirmed that the weather balloon rawin device was not what was recovered from the Forster ranch.

In Corpus Christi, Texas, I received confirmation that no balloons were involved in the Roswell incident, and afterwards, I conducted deep research into Project Mogul. The result of my research had determined that Project Mogul was not classified TOP SECRET, and in fact, Project Mogul balloons and their experiments were publicized in the news media in 1947 and yet the Air Force managed to convince a number of Roswell skeptics that Project Mogul was classified TOP SECRET in its 1994 Roswell report.

It is amazing how easy the Air Force was able to dupe Roswell skeptics into thinking that typical unclassified research balloons were classified TOP SECRET after trashing its 47-year weather balloon story. Here is the typical payload of a Project Mogul balloon train.

Attached Questionnaire Attached To Mogul balloons

Please answer this and send to us so that we may pay you the
Reward.

1. On what date and at what hour was the balloon discovered?

2. Where was it discovered? (Approximate distance and direction
from nearest town on map?)

3. Was it observed descending? If so, at what time?

4. Did it float down slowly or fall rapidly?

5. How much kerosene was there in the tank?

C. S. Schneider
Research Division
New York University
University Heights
Bronx 53. New York

__________________________________________________________________


ATTACHED REWARD NOTICE

This is special weather equipment Sent aloft on research by New York Univetity.
It is important that the equipment be recovered. The finder L requested to protect
the equipment from damage or theft. and to telegraph collect to: Mr. C. 5. Schneider.
York University. 18lst St. & University Heights, Box 12. New York City.
L.S.A. Phone: LUdlow 3.6310. REFER TO FLIGHT #-__________

A dollar ($ ) reward and reasonable reimbursement for recovery expense will be
paid if the above instruction* are followed before September 1949.

KEEP AWAY FROM FIRE. THERE IS KEROSENE IN THE TANK.


****WARNING TAGS****
_______________________

DANGER!
FIRE!
CUT THESE WIRES
BEFORE HANDLING
_______________________

DANGER!
EMPTY THIS ON GROUND
BEFORE HANDLING

----------------------------------------------

Typical Mogul Balloon Equipment That Was NOT Found on the Foster Ranch

* Dribblers

* Parachutes

* Ballast tubes

* Radiosode

* Sono Buoy

* Equipment gauges

* 17.5 Mogul balloon payload.

* Braided lines

* 28 balloons of various sizes

Nothing in the Project Mogul balloon payload was classified and that is a very good reason why I have repeatedly warned Roswell skeptics that the Air Force was pulling the wool over their eyes in regards to its 1994 and 1997 Roswell Reports.

It is truly amazing that after dropping its false 47-year weather balloon cover story, the Air Force still managed to convince a number of people that typical unclassified research balloon trains were classified TOP SECRET when in fact, the balloon trains and their experiments were highly publicized in newspapers across the country in 1947.

It is also amazing that the Air Force managed to convince those same folks that 6-foot test dummies and accident victims of the 1950's were the 4-foot alien beings people saw in 1947.

Simply amazing!!