Creationist Quackery, Part 150, 001 : Creationists Say Aliens Don't Exist, So Let's Stop Looking!

a reply to: Xtrozero

Personally, if there is a God that created all this then I would think that since he created the universe, and the laws of the universe too, he would follow those laws in a logical sense.

^^This is an excellent point, and, it's the basis of the hypocrisy of the double standards of the rules of law, we have accepted throughout our history.

I mean, if we accept that God laid down a set of laws that he doesn't have to follow, then it follows that when President Nixon said "When the President does it, it isn't a crime", that becomes acceptable logic, and down the rabbit hole we go.

We have been programmed to accept that our leaders and the rich are free of the laws they write and sponsor, and adhere to an entirely different set of laws. The Church seems to exist by a different set of laws. The police seem to live by a different set of laws. The slave and the lord live by a different set of laws. Yea, the "law" works in mysterious ways!

I'ts mind boggling just how much religion has f##ed up our society.

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
The only ones spreading that dictum are atheists. Science and God are NOT mutually exclusive, as God used science to create this reality. Your version of 'proof,' is only your explanation of the evidence, not the actual truth, as that would hurt your Worldview.

So nothing on that eh?

No, atheists are not the only people who have picked up on the habits of creationists. Even the Pope doesn't buy into six day creationism, and he is far from being an atheist.

Not sure what the Pope's deal is, but he is not a spiritual leader. Nice of him to finally be accepted by the secular World, as he had to give up most of his beliefs to do so. The Pope is not someone to look up to, or to admire. The Catholic Church does not represent all Christians.

You are more than welcome to challenge my world view at any time.

Just did.

I am perfectly capable of changing it should faults in it be shown.

Can the same be said about you? An honest question, not a mere retort.

Side note: I was not always an atheist.

On the one hand I want to thank you for being civil, on the other, I used to be an atheist myself, until I went looking. Too bad I keep seeing stories like yours, of people that used to believe. Take it for what you will, God doesn't speak to me in the manner in which you and I are conversing, but he speaks to me daily. What is it you didn't see? I'm not sure, but it was there all along, you just have to open your eyes.

a reply to: Phantom423

Not sure if your being facetious, but here you go. When you look at evidence, you look at it through the lenses of your Worldview, which doesn't gel with creation, obviously. So not only do you have a bias coming in, but you also instinctively develop ideas based on your Worldview, and it causes you to try to fit the pieces into the puzzle you've already chosen. Most people don't have the ability to be objective, when you look at a piece of evidence, you automatically categorize it into what you know, and what you know is the secular Worldview. Because the World has told you that creationist are (insert negative stereotype here), you don't want to even conceive that they might be right, because that would mean that you would be associated with the negativity, and therefor, instinctively lean the way in which you would feel the most acceptance, the way that makes you the most comfortable within your own sphere.

a reply to: Phantom423

Ph.D. Chemistry/Physics Cal Tech

Thanks Phantom, it sounds like you are a very intelligent person.

If I may also ask ( you don't have to be too specific ) how are you using your degree?

Are you an atheist or agnostic?

originally posted by: Chronogoblin
So nothing on that eh?

Nothing on what? Science and God being mutually exclusive? My version of proof being my explanation of the evidence? Evidence of what specifically? It's a complex subject (Christianity/Religion) that doesn't have a simple answer. It would have to be answered on a "case by case" basis. By case by case, I mean this or that theological claim.

Not sure what the Pope's deal is, but he is not a spiritual leader. Nice of him to finally be accepted by the secular World, as he had to give up most of his beliefs to do so. The Pope is not someone to look up to, or to admire. The Catholic Church does not represent all Christians.

I don't particularly admire or look up to the current Pope. In fact I know little to nothing about him as I've paid him little attention. I agree he doesn't represent all Christians. On the other hand, I think the "not a real Christian" thing Christians do is silly and evidence that the Bible can be interpreted in a multitude of ways. All hailed as the right way.

Just did.

I'm failing to see the challenge. What was it?

On the one hand I want to thank you for being civil, on the other, I used to be an atheist myself, until I went looking. Too bad I keep seeing stories like yours, of people that used to believe. Take it for what you will, God doesn't speak to me in the manner in which you and I are conversing, but he speaks to me daily. What is it you didn't see? I'm not sure, but it was there all along, you just have to open your eyes.

My path to atheism was a long one with many things fueling it. There was no one particular thing I didn't see. The list is pretty big honestly. I've gone over, or at least listed many of them in various threads. If you really want to know I'll dig a few posts up for you to read.

originally posted by: windword

Those sound an awful lot like the same excuses that believers use!

At least you admit your excuses.

We are born in, and remain wretched sinners in need of asking for forgiveness BEFORE God will show up, and even then, it's only in the most private and personal of ways, that no one else can hear or see.

No one else can hear? Sure. But no one else can see? Wrong. God shows himself to people daily, just because your eyes are closed doesn't mean there isn't someone there waiting for you to open them.

God can't show himself or be with us because he can't be in the presence of sin.]

False. A common misconception, and an error on your part. God cannot abide sin, thus doesn't allow it into Heaven, has nothing to do with Earth, or God appearing. God did appear though, and we killed Him.

God can't fix the evil and all that's wrong with with world because of the "Prime Directive" of free will. But, HE is knock, knock, knocking on your heart's door. All you have to do is open up to him!

Another apparent error, will you continue to use these in your posts? God can, and WILL fix the evil of the World, just on His schedule. At least you got the last part right (points for you!), even if you were being snide. Guess you can't expect civility from everyone.

What I find to be particularly funny, is that religious people think that their belief in god is superior to everyone else's beliefs, because they have the only truth.

These huge religious institutions have no problem justifying atrocities committed against innocent people in the name of their god, and have no compunction or second thoughts about asserting their beliefs and dogma over the rights of others.

Yeah, the "Church", God's representative, is here to help you! Yeah, that's the ticket!

Can't refute what I said so you make up some tripe, it's always the same with you people, atrocities this, church history that. What I find REALLY funny? THAT'S ALL YOU HAVE. Funny how people like you always want to talk about the negative, never mentioning all the good that been done in the Lord's name. Nah, because that would defeat your purpose of ridiculing something you obviously have no clue about.

a reply to: windword

I mean, if we accept that God laid down a set of laws that he doesn't have to follow, then it follows that when President Nixon said "When the President does it, it isn't a crime", that becomes acceptable logic, and down the rabbit hole we go.

Was Steve Jobs, in his day to day activities, bound by the same rules and limitations that were programmed into the IPhone?

a reply to: dusty1

Could Steve Jobs program a computer without using computer programming language? Could he "will" a mother board into existence?

originally posted by: Chronogoblin
No one else can hear? Sure. But no one else can see? Wrong. God shows himself to people daily, just because your eyes are closed doesn't mean there isn't someone there waiting for you to open them.

Zeus just told me you're wrong.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: dusty1

Could Steve Jobs program a computer without using computer programming language? Could he "will" a mother board into existence?

Hey! It's Steve-muthafriggin'-Jobs we're talking about here! He can make a unicorn fart rainbows!

a reply to: Chronogoblin

No one else can hear? Sure. But no one else can see? Wrong. God shows himself to people daily, just because your eyes are closed doesn't mean there isn't someone there waiting for you to open them.

What do you mean by that? Are you saying that the sky or a tree is evidence of the existence of your god? Or, are you saying that every private realization of the self examined life is a revelation of your god?

False. A common misconception, and an error on your part. God cannot abide sin, thus doesn't allow it into Heaven, has nothing to do with Earth, or God appearing.

Whatever. You're "excuse" for why God doesn't appear in a substantial form is because he can't.

If God doesn't allow sin in Heaven, how do you account for the rebellion which included 1/3 of his residents? How do account for Jesus have been credited with saying this?

From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subjected to violence, and violent people have been raiding it.

God did appear though, and we killed Him.

God is dead! And we killed him! Who will bear this responsibility? God of course! Long live God!

God can, and WILL fix the evil of the World, just on His schedule.

If you say so. Way to ignore the "Free Will" argument that Christians so often use as an excuse as why God allows evil.

Another apparent error, will you continue to use these in your posts?

Hey, I'm just comparing your example of UFO enthusiasts excuses to God/creation enthusiasts and their excuses!

a reply to: windword

You didn't answer my question Windword.

The answer is no.

Steve was not personally bound by the limited parameters of Apples devices.

Are other theorized multiverses bound by the physical laws of our universe?

Were the laws of the universe the same before the theorized big bang, as after?

Could Steve Jobs program a computer without using computer programming language?

Steve Jobs had to use computer programming language.

Did any of his devices program themselves?

Could he "will" a mother board into existence?

It was the force of Steve Jobs will, that created Apple and made it succeed.

If he wanted something at some point, he asked for it, and it was done.


Some believe the universe came into existence from nothing.

There wasn't any will or intent, at all.......

a reply to: NavyDoc

Hey! It's Steve-muthafriggin'-Jobs were talking about here! He can make a unicorn fart rainbows!

True that.

He would of course hire a team of engineers, designers and manufacturers to create the Unicorn.

Then you would have to buy each fart for a dollar on iTunes......

a reply to: dusty1

You example is non sequitur.

If Steve Jobs wants to interact with any device he has to use the rules of that device.

Did any of his devices program themselves?

It was the force of Steve Jobs will, that created Apple and made it succeed.

How is Steve Jobs ability to visualize a product and create a company to produce the product different from what creationists claim that God did?

Everything that Steve Jobs did follows the established laws of the universe. He didn't will Apple into existence from nothing, as "God" is claimed to have done.

I'm not here to argue the big bang with you. My point/observation is that religion is responsible for establishing the justification for a tiered system differentiating between those who dictate and those who follow laws.

Religion has invented a God, and his son Jesus, who break their own laws, and projects that reality onto society.

originally posted by: dusty1
a reply to: NavyDoc

Hey! It's Steve-muthafriggin'-Jobs were talking about here! He can make a unicorn fart rainbows!

True that.

He would of course hire a team of engineers, designers and manufacturers to create the Unicorn.

Then you would have to buy each fart for a dollar on iTunes......

But the fart would only work in Apple branded unicorns!

a reply to: dusty1

My work is in spectroscopy, specifically isolating and characterizing compounds. It's one of the reasons why I go after Creationists with their dating BS. Dating the Earth and fossils is not a difficult task today. Don't tell that to Ken Ham though or the ignoramus who posted on this thread. I wouldn't want to upset their apple cart.

I'm agnostic. If there's a god, that's fine; if there isn't a god, that's okay too. I don't think it really matters one way or the other. Science doesn't go out looking for gods. Science focuses on the expansion of knowledge, whatever it is, wherever it may be and however it turns out.

a reply to: Chronogoblin

Sorry, but you're wrong. Science is objective. You go into a project with NO view, worldview or otherwise. I don't care if people choose to follow a religion - any religion including Creationism. What I object to is the corruption of sound science to perpetrate a fraud. And that is exactly what Ken Ham does with his Creationist BS.

If you can demonstrate with hard evidence that Ken Ham's "science" is valid, please do so. The challenge is open to you as well.

a reply to: Chronogoblin

This is what real science looks like. If you can find the author's worldview in the contents, please let me know:

Decomposition of UV induced ESR spectra in modern and fossil dental enamel fragments

R. Joannes-Boyau and R. Grün

Research School of Earth Sciences, The Australian National University, Canberra, ACT 0200, Australia (e-mail [email protected])


www.academia.edu...

a reply to: Astyanax

Football is on,I will be back later to properly answer to your post!

a reply to: windword

You example is non sequitur.

If Steve Jobs wants to interact with any device he has to use the rules of that device.

I think Steve would not have agreed with you.

"Think Different"

A creative mind was not simply bound by the constraints of current technology. Development of a touchscreen, wifi, apps and a new operating system, were developed and occurred outside the device.

They were designed to interact yes, but they were not bound by the old device.

Everything that Steve Jobs did follows the established laws of the universe. He didn't will Apple into existence from nothing, as "God" is claimed to have done.

So are you saying Apple computers or the company somehow existed before Steve Jobs or without him?

Science claims that the universe came from nothing.

I'm not here to argue the big bang with you

I know. Science says that the conditions and rules were different before the Big Bang.

It also states that the conditions of the Earth were different before Abiogenesis.

Religion has invented a God, and his son Jesus, who break their own laws, and projects that reality onto society

Please explain.