Buddha rebuked a Demiurge god, who thought he was, The One True God.

Linked explanation

After Buddha's Enlightenment, and something that is still part of reaching Enlightenment in Buddhism today, Buddha had free access to the Spirit realms, levels of heavens, hells, etc. So eventually he comes across this being (see demiurge) who really thinks, in ignorance, that he is God:

Mara, the most evil god (a heavenly ‘demon’ from the Paranimmita-Vasavatti Heaven) possessed an attendant of Baka Brahma and told the Buddha not to rebuke him, for he is ‘the Maha (Great) Brahma, the Conqueror, Unconquered, Omniscient, Omnipotent, Creator, Most High Providence, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be.’

Christians/Jews/Muslims.....that last line sound familiar to you?

Mara next warned that before the Buddha’s time, there were those who found fault with the elements (of the realms of rebirth), beings, and even gods like Brahma, who were subsequently reborn in lower realms with suffering. He claimed that those who praised the above instead are reborn in refined realms with happiness.

Sound familiar? Send him all your love, praises, worship and you will end up in refined spiritual realms, aka heaven.

As such, the Buddha ought to be agreeable with Baka Brahma, as defiance could lead to loss of good fortune and even lead to hell.

Sound familiar yet again? Defiance against so called "God", leads to hell.

The sutta also points out that unenlightened gods are still deluded, of how the demand for blind obedience to a so-called omnipotent creator god arose from Mara. In this sense, some gods, despite their might from having much good karma, can unwittingly become ‘servants’ of Mara, so long as they stay deluded.

Some more interesting tidbits:

When the Buddha declared his freedom from rebirth, which Mara was trying to bind him to with related threats, the Buddha, being the one of truly great and high power, was also inviting Mara, or anyone else, to refute him, which is impossible, because his realisation and teachings are truly supreme in greatness and power.

So this lower "god" binds souls into rebirth, over and over again handing out access to heavens to those he deems deserve it, and hell to others. Again sound familiar?

Again to clarify the points of Mara:

(1) the threat of ‘hell’ for non-believers, (2) the promise of ‘eternal’ heaven by a heavenly ‘Father’ for his faithful ‘creation’, and (3) the claim of him being ‘the Conqueror, Unconquered, Omniscient, Omnipotent, Creator, Most High Providence’.

Things are starting to get interesting the deeper I dig. For, after I have received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit by the following the teachings of Christ, I have, since that day, come to intuitively want nothing to do with OT (except for Psalms), and have fallen in Love with Mysticism that is Perenial, Buddhism being one of them (See Gospel of Thomas for a Buddhist styled Christ)

a reply to: dominicus

There is a story where Jesus supposedly went to Tibet to study the Buddhist teachings. In fact there was a fictionalized story that shows Jesus meeting what appears to be a holy man in the Himalayas. The title of the book is called Jesus by Deepak Chopra


Here's the link about possible activities of Jesus in the unknown years.

en.wikipedia.org...

I agree with your way of thinking and have come to similar ideas. A being that tries to create a power pyramid with itself on top is not worth admiration since it is ego driven and will not try to do good for all who exists. A being trying to create a symbiotic oneness that is good for all parts who join it and decide what to do by using logic to see how to do good for all parts is a being that is pure from ego corruption.

Your post puts both old testament and Paul teaching in perspective.

Namaste.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

The lost years of Jesus: Part 1-2

a reply to: dominicus

I can honestly say I am so very proud of the people that come to this realization...

Sigh

Now IF only the GF would... LOL

S&F brother

Not to rail on anyones religion I think all religions have some truth in them.

That being said I believe there are various keepers of the matrix so to say, some call them angels or maintainers of the universe, while others may be as gods.

Now on to my point that whatever viewed is simply a projection of the individual, for example if Buddha saw Mara perhaps he was in a state of unity where this being was but a reflection of ignorance or a reflection of himself which he had become beyond.

By Buddha being beyond meaning he had become one or merged with the entire universe while still living by simply understanding we have always been all oneness from the highest god to a lump of grass all forms of life and matter were himself including the god standing before him.

He simply saw the unity that has been vieled or programed out of the minds of sentient beings, he awakened to the illusion by the experience of the unity that is all is god, all else is an illusion.

One example of this is when we dream we create everything then view it from the viewpoint of ourselves. Well Buddha might have viewed it from all points of view and beyond that illusion as well to become a singularity of counsiousness.

a reply to: dominicus

reminds me of the movie i recently watched, Exodus: Gods and Kings.

imho, perfect Being never need to create, never need a worship, etc.
for something to create something, they too have to be created by something, therefore they do not deserve worship. if everything is one, perhaps there is no creation, only transformation.

(if these gods do indeed exist) i wont see them as bad, good, lower, higher.... just my equals who play different roles.

peace

This is it.. this is what I've been contemplating a lot lately.

The beings born in the Kāmadhātu (Desire realms) differ in degree of happiness, but they are all, other than Anāgāmi, Arhat and Buddhas, under the domination of Māra and are bound by sensual desire, which causes them suffering.

This is super interesting, at least to me.

One realm higher than the desire realms have this description in Buddhist cosmology:

Mahābrahmā – the world of "Great Brahmā", believed by many to be the creator of the world, and having as his titles "Brahmā, Great Brahmā, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, All-Powerful, the Lord, the Maker and Creator, the Ruler, Appointer and Orderer, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be." According to the Brahmajāla Sutta (DN.1), a Mahābrahmā is a being from the Ābhāsvara worlds who falls into a lower world through exhaustion of his merits and is reborn alone in the Brahma-world; forgetting his former existence, he imagines himself to have come into existence without cause. Note that even such a high-ranking deity has no intrinsic knowledge of the worlds above his own.

This is my favorite thread in a long while, can't wait to see what further insights ATS can provide..

S&F!

Well according to some ancient scriptures no matter what god or devil you see worship or conjure up its just a reflection of yourself.

Meaning you create the god that shows up before you through devotion and create the god or devil that works best for yourself out of the infinate.

This even works with stuff you imagine you want or make up your own version of what you think god should be like for yourself.

It reminds me of Lisa in that movie Wierd Science I would love it if someone embedded this for everyone:

www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: dominicus
Linked explanation
So this lower "god" binds souls into rebirth, over and over again handing out access to heavens to those he deems deserve it, and hell to others. Again sound familiar?

Don't know if it makes much of a difference to your point but I don't believe Mara has the ability to bind anyone, Mara is a tempter like the Devil, trying to sway people to choose the dark side which in buddhism includes being caught up in the wheel of rebirth.

a reply to: dominicus

Something akin to this is a book by Christian O'brien where Christ talks about the different realms in the spirit world and how one must traverse them being aware of the demons/devils who would do one harm on the journey.

This is something that is not taught with christianity - yet the eastern religions cover it.

I actually find this information jarring because although I don't align myself with any of the desert religions as all seem flawed and manipulated to me, this concept that there is danger in the upper realms is quite frightening. In fact it seems to me the idea of telling people about a heaven which is a paradise, full of virgins for a man's lust etc etc (with a spirit body Ha Ha) and whatever seems to be darn right dangerous and deliverately misleading. It could well mean that souls are not prepared for what they will find, especially as we don't in truth have any idea of life after death, except that many reincarnate - are they the lucky ones, and if so, how lucky?

a reply to: FormOfTheLord


Consider it great enlightenment when you come to the realization that just about everything around you is not a projection from inside yourself somewhere.

a reply to: dominicus

Sure it appears Buddha rejected the concept of a sky-God, the santa clause type being envisioned in exoteric Western religion that threatens and cajoles believers to believe.

I don’t believe he rejected philosophically the concept of a supreme God or force I believe he deemed it irrelevant to spiritual advancement.

I agree with that since on this low level such a God is not perceivable so why should one believe in it beyond an abstract.

The strange thing in that, take Islam for example, most people don’t know is that a belief in a God is NOT the first pillar of it.

It is to believe in the UNSEEN or what you haven’t perceived as of yet.


And if you examine Jesus’ teachings you don’t see him teaching literally of a Sky-God, imo.

originally posted by: dominicus
Linked explanation

After Buddha's Enlightenment, and something that is still part of reaching Enlightenment in Buddhism today, Buddha had free access to the Spirit realms, levels of heavens, hells, etc. So eventually he comes across this being (see demiurge) who really thinks, in ignorance, that he is God:

Mara, the most evil god (a heavenly ‘demon’ from the Paranimmita-Vasavatti Heaven) possessed an attendant of Baka Brahma and told the Buddha not to rebuke him, for he is ‘the Maha (Great) Brahma, the Conqueror, Unconquered, Omniscient, Omnipotent, Creator, Most High Providence, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be.’

Christians/Jews/Muslims.....that last line sound familiar to you?

Mara next warned that before the Buddha’s time, there were those who found fault with the elements (of the realms of rebirth), beings, and even gods like Brahma, who were subsequently reborn in lower realms with suffering. He claimed that those who praised the above instead are reborn in refined realms with happiness.

Sound familiar? Send him all your love, praises, worship and you will end up in refined spiritual realms, aka heaven.

As such, the Buddha ought to be agreeable with Baka Brahma, as defiance could lead to loss of good fortune and even lead to hell.

Sound familiar yet again? Defiance against so called "God", leads to hell.

The sutta also points out that unenlightened gods are still deluded, of how the demand for blind obedience to a so-called omnipotent creator god arose from Mara. In this sense, some gods, despite their might from having much good karma, can unwittingly become ‘servants’ of Mara, so long as they stay deluded.

Some more interesting tidbits:

When the Buddha declared his freedom from rebirth, which Mara was trying to bind him to with related threats, the Buddha, being the one of truly great and high power, was also inviting Mara, or anyone else, to refute him, which is impossible, because his realisation and teachings are truly supreme in greatness and power.

So this lower "god" binds souls into rebirth, over and over again handing out access to heavens to those he deems deserve it, and hell to others. Again sound familiar?

Again to clarify the points of Mara:

(1) the threat of ‘hell’ for non-believers, (2) the promise of ‘eternal’ heaven by a heavenly ‘Father’ for his faithful ‘creation’, and (3) the claim of him being ‘the Conqueror, Unconquered, Omniscient, Omnipotent, Creator, Most High Providence’.

Things are starting to get interesting the deeper I dig. For, after I have received the indwelling of the Holy Spirit by the following the teachings of Christ, I have, since that day, come to intuitively want nothing to do with OT (except for Psalms), and have fallen in Love with Mysticism that is Perenial, Buddhism being one of them (See Gospel of Thomas for a Buddhist styled Christ)

So are you suggesting a non-spiritual stance turning backs on the divine is wisdom then?

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: FormOfTheLord





Consider it great enlightenment when you come to the realization that just about everything around you is not a projection from inside yourself somewhere.

So very true my friend.

That being said just knowing isnt good enough it must be experienced.

As a teen I knew what being with a girl was like from a few books, and my mom and dad etc, but was nothing like the actual experience of being with a real one LOLZ

Just the book knowledge or principals of it is great but likened to the shadow of the real thing, like a painting of a flame is very different than a real flame.

Perhaps more meditation is needed to bring about this great realization.

I would hope our civilizations technology would allow realization of this simple truth through a singularity.

It may happen it may not, a wise man once said dont expect too much that way you wont be dissapointed.

I've always thought the god that allows all this suffering thinks that the mechanism of this world is set up to teach you to be a better, more resilient person beside your obvious shortcomings and the odds stacked against you. With a prevailing thought of "We do this because we love you" justifying the whole thing. I am reminded of the speech Al Pacino's character gives in the movie the devil's advocate!

But everything comes into view soon enough, we shall see and understand soon enough.

Good stuff.

I have a similar view, a fondness for Buddha, a student of the NT and a distaste for the OT.

Do you recommend any books on Buddha's teachings? What's the official or most accepted one one?

Thanks.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: dominicus

Something akin to this is a book by Christian O'brien where Christ talks about the different realms in the spirit world and how one must traverse them being aware of the demons/devils who would do one harm on the journey.

This is something that is not taught with christianity - yet the eastern religions cover it.

This sort of thing is actually well covered in christianity. Most of it has to do with the manifestations of evil/good so to speak, in the material realm, howbeit of a spiritual manifestation.....not so much about realms of the spirit world, entering in an out of those realms, but how these realms bleed over, manifest, operate to effect man in the material world.

So the thing becomes how to identify the spiritual nature of things in the material world. The christian is admonished to see self as an armed man, with helmet, shield, breastplate and sword ect in a spiritual fashion, watching for the adversary that moves about like a hungry lion seeking to devour and yet understanding that we wrestle not against flesh and blood things, but spiritual manifestations of evil in this three dimensional world.

a reply to: dominicus

The word God originates from the word Good and is a Germanic form for the absolute deity, the Gospell or Good New's.

Jesus has his Father who is in heaven and our father too but once when someone called him Good he rebuked them saying Only God is Good or only the Father is good, another interpretation in line with your thought's though I do not share them would be Only Goodness is God or only Goodness is worthy of Worship.

You talk of how Buddha was tempted by Mara but you do not draw the analogy with Christ who had fasted in the wilderness which is something the Buddha himself would have recognized and the Spririt who came claiming to own and create all the world and tempting Jesus saying that if he worshiped him as his only true god than all this he would give him.

The truth shall set you free, Wisdom begin's with understanding we have none.

There are similarity's which may suggest Buddha and Christ are aspect's of the same universal teaching Originating in the Good or the Truth.

A great light Shining unto the people living in Darkness.

The Enlightened one (nothing to do with the illuminated to those that spot that but a title of Buddha).

Rejection of the world and temptation.

Being of a higher form not of the world of death.

Reborn into the spirit to break the cycle (jew's of several sect's and the samaritans as well as today's samaritan descended drue did have reincarnation belief with jesus giving knowledge and faith as well as taking the Kharma of his follower's upon himself, sharing Kharma as a group in the church.

Of course My knowledge of Buddhism is basic but I see nothing that contradict's christ.

However opening these path's to those who are ill prepared can only lead them upon a more complicated ascent with far more chance of falling and the Buddha did not take your Sin or Kharma upon himself as Christ did so who is more worthy of your devotion, self ascent through teaching and meditation or help all through christian charity and love.

Hopefully not too off topic or nihilistic :
Proclaiming enlightenment can only be relative to a previous state of ignorance or false belief.
Shedding of false belief is of utmost importance, as having no belief is at least, clear and transparent.
We can only know that which is changing, and thus can possess no certainty.
The gods of man are constructions that require no worship.
Ideology should not be a thing unto it's self, but merely a vehicle to deeper levels of futile understanding.
A human's claim at full spectrum enlightenment, is so laughably conceited,
it makes fools of all the prophets and their churches.

"“Culture is not your friend. Culture is for other people’s convenience and the convenience of various institutions, churches, companies, tax collection schemes, and what have you. It is not your friend. It insults you, it disempowers you, it uses and abuses you. ..." - Terence McKenna

Nice to see people waking up from the trance. Nothing in this place is real. No Illusion can exist beyond death any more than humanity can believe beyond their entranced hypnotic state upon awakening from it.

S&F