Detroit burger joint shows it’s possible to pay workers $15 an hour and still make money

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: tothetenthpower

Either way, legit numbers or bad numbers, I have a hard time supporting somebody who flips burgers making $15 an hour. Unskilled labor is just that: unskilled. Pay isn't going to go up across the board. Why should somebody who runs a register at my closest gas station make a couple grand less than a teacher? That blows my mind.

I see those people back there, slaving away in an unpleasant environment, doing things I would hate to do and don't even know how to do. I wouldn't last a day working in a fast-food joint.

"Unskilled" is a very misused word when it comes to these sorts of debates. Perseverance and a commitment to a disgusting job is a skill as far as I'm concerned. If it's something I can't do, it's skilled labor.

I'd rather take a pay cut, getting paid minimum wage doing what I do than to get paid $50/hour doing what the fast food folks do.

a reply to: Cuervo

Just because you don't want to do it doesn't make it skilled labor.

Unskilled labor: A segment of the work force associated with a low skill level or a limited economic value for the work performed (human capital). Unskilled labor is generally characterized by low education levels and small wages. Work that requires no specific education or experience is often available to workers who fall into the unskilled labor force.

Pretty much the definition of operating a fry machine and microwave. Not denying they provide a service. A service many people don't want to do. I don't care to do it either, but I don't think that means they should make as much as a teacher does.

originally posted by: Grovit
a reply to: Nyiah

i know people that were idiots too.
i say it is employer discretion...
why not?
they made the mistakes. thats their problem.

seems like a slap in the face to people that dug in and towed the line all their life. the people that put the time in skilled trade positions to earn that money.

Ironic coming from someone who has Vor V Zakone as his title. A criminal society that has, never working a legit job, in their rules. A criminal society that swears to only ever make money off of crime lol.



Now on to the OP. If its working for the employees and its working for the owner. Why is anyone complaining. Even if he did not give the complete numbers for whatever reason. The owner is still making enough money to be content and happy with his choice. So whats the problem? Owners happy, check. Employees happy, check. ATS mad or happy based on what political side they pray too, check. God bless the dollar AMEN! God bless political correctness AMEN!



I understand why someone would be upset to see fast food wages go up and their wages for a much harder job stay the same. But that is not the fault of the fast food worker or the guy paying him. Just like the fast food worker you should be mad your wages have not gone up while the cost of everything you buy has gone up. That is what you should be mad about. Not at the other guy trying to survive.

If two guys are drowning and they fight each other instead of the guy drowning them. Well you see were I am going with this. Divide and conquer rules the world and ATS right now. You are either a serf or a lord. And if you are not in the hundred million to a billion dollar club. Your a serf. But go ahead keep on clubbing to death the other serfs in hope the lords notice you and let you live in the castle some day.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: DenyTreason

I'm not ashamed of myself at all. If the fry machine operator "deserves" that much money, then the teachers' pay should go up accordingly. There's decent pay, and there's "decent" pay.

I'm not in anyway trying to say they don't deserve better pay. But just for some perspective, teachers (or most other professionals) would get all the perks, right? Like health cover, payed holidays and a guaranteed set yearly wage. Where as most food workers would simply just get paid for the hours they can manage to grab.

You can’t just go by a workers base hourly wage when comparing a professional career to some unskilled part time labour. All these little perks obviously make a huge difference to a person’s quality of life and long-term income.

originally posted by: jlafleur02

Maybe the melt guy is underpaid. If you raise the fry guys pay then the melt guy will get a fry job. Then the owners of the melt shop will have to offer a higher wage to attract new employees for the melt job. did you ever think of that

of course.
in the other thread in the rant i mentioned it.
what will happen to all those fields. people are gonna flood fast food for that wage.

and yes, i think the melt guys are under paid....
i have zero problem with a fry guy making $15 an hour.

if they are getting a $7 an hour increase than the guys in the melt should get a $7 increase. and teachers and everything else.

that is my issue with it.
mcnasty is entry level and low skill. your pay should reflect the work you do.
skill. mental/physical demand. margin for error...
those types of things...

im not trying to keep the fry guy down....hell, hook him up with $25 an hour.
as long as the guys in the melt get $40

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Teachers also have to buy things for their classrooms entirely out of pocket. Does a fry cook have to buy the oil for the machine out of pocket? Are there perks to having a job that you had to earn a degree for? Sure. But it kind of goes along hand in hand: you went to college, got a degree, earned a certification, all to get a career. You should be compensated accordingly.

I get that it's about quality of life. But there's a difference between a job and a career. Compensation reflects that. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Somebody else mentioned Undercover Boss. I've seen a few of those. Some of the people who worked in food service (Subway comes to mind) talked about how they worked there to go to school. I don't remember anybody saying "I want to be a sandwich artist for the rest of my life because it's a great career."

originally posted by: karmicecstasy


Ironic coming from someone who has Vor V Zakone as his title. A criminal society that has, never working a legit job, in their rules. A criminal society that swears to only ever make money off of crime lol.

:

that has nothing to do with it.
the old 'but your title or your avatar'

im not a theif in law....i also have pictures of a few of the vor v zakone framed in my living room. right next to stagger lee.
does not mean #.


and cuervo, it is the definition of unskilled labor.
if you can walk onto the job and do it after 2 minutes of training, which you can at mcnasty and such, then it is unskilled.

i worked at mcnasty before. i cant imagine it got more technical.

put 12 patties on grill. close grill. grill opens. take patties off grill. repeat

yeah, super skilled

a reply to: Grovit

That's really all I'm saying. This is about providing a better chance at a good life for people. Okay, I get that. But I don't get paying somebody with no skills and no education the same or nearly the same as somebody who earned a degree and has a career requiring skill. Having a career that has perks is one of the benefits to getting a degree and having a skill.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: Grovit

That's really all I'm saying. This is about providing a better chance at a good life for people. Okay, I get that. But I don't get paying somebody with no skills and no education the same or nearly the same as somebody who earned a degree and has a career requiring skill. Having a career that has perks is one of the benefits to getting a degree and having a skill.

yeah i agree.
lets pay the convicted felon with no skills or the 17 year old kid with no skills the same as the people that have a 4 year degree or years in the work force with technical school under their belt...
yeah, makes sense

we hear all the time that thats the only work they can find...
that may be the case but it is not that the job market sucks 100% of the time.
some of the time its cause they suck.
some of the time its cause they have a record and nobody else will hire them.

might as well mention that too

a reply to: karmicecstasy

It's not my fault the fast food worker has no skills and minimal education, and therefore can't get a job that pays better and has benefits. It's not my fault they chose a job instead of a career. It's not my fault they get paid what their "skill" is worth.

It IS my fault that I chose a career. It IS my fault that I worked to do what I needed to get the career I wanted. It IS my fault I'm compensated for what my skills are worth (though really, who doesn't want to be paid more?). It IS my fault that society says "well shamrock, what you do is worth more to us than what the guy who bags our food at the burger joint is, so we'll reward you better than him" because I chose to do what I do.

There's two sides to your coin.

a reply to: tothetenthpower

I can only say that the problem is when your franchise is in a smaller or less wealthy area everything is different even if it would work in some areas.

We had a Starbucks come to town and they were offering wages we had never seen here, owning a business in the area I realized what would happen. Yes they hired a bunch of workers with retirement fund and high wages but not long later they had to have fewer and fewer and overworked people because the place does not make enough to keep a bunch of labor at those wages...clear and simple.

Where 10 would be employed you end up with one working for higher wages. The owner of the company takes the place of several and works his head off round the clock.

originally posted by: Grovit
a reply to: Nyiah



if fast food wages hit $15 an hour then what happens to the other industries?

Very simple. Other industries will then be pressured to start paying the American worker what they deserve (matching inflation) instead of worrying only about their shareholders, as well as giving themselves HUGE bonuses. Bonuses which most of them do not deserve to get when their employees who do most of the work must seek government assistance. Assistance which in turn causes us TAX PAYERS to PAY FOR THEIR WORKERS while the typical American CEO buys themselves another exotic new car, new vacation home, personal jet, or yacht.

Nowbody deserves a 6-figure salary and bonuses (bonuses which are WAY more than the average American workers yearly salary is for the YEAR) WHEN THEY badly EXPLOIT their workers and SHAFT the American TAX PAYER.

These bonuses would be better spent giving the American worker wage increases. And tax payers would get a relief as well. The economy would improve with people then being able to buy things, which would cause more hiring in addition to companies making more money. A win-win for everyone across the board.

Very simple stuff. Its almost like the finacially set folks want to see the average American struggle and our country remain down.

a reply to: DenyTreason

if it actually happens like that then im all for it.

a reply to: DenyTreason

Good Post
Our economy is tilted toward the favor of Corporate and Investor Elites thanks to the government policies they have purchased.
The extreme wealth inequality in this country is all due to policies to enrich the investor class. Wealth Inequality is normal in capitalism where there is a stepping stone of separation but that is not what we see. There is the top .5% that own 40% of this nation's wealth all because of Wall Street.
There needs to be a balance of power and that is obtained by the people on the lower end of the spectrum fighting back.
Yes, the workers above those will also demand more which is exactly what should happen until it goes up to the top to the point where the investor class are getting less dividends per share.

Then Management will raise prices and the cycle starts all over again as it should be.

The cycle never ends and should not end because everyone should be fighting which helps maintain a balance of power between all.
It is all part of the market forces we should allow to happen

I agree with it to some extent that the trickle effect would happen that other industries would be forced to raise their wages proportionately to keep their workers but only if there is not a large unemployment rate on that area. If the area has a glut of workers not working the trickle effect won't be as prominent as employers will still have a large workforce to tap into not needing to increase their wages to attract skilled worker. As an example I left Ontario Canada to move to Alberta because Alberta has an abundance of jobs available and not enough workers to fill those jobs, Mcsweats and Starbucks and the likes pay 14 dollars an hour 4 dollars over the minimum wage just to keep people where as in Ontario there are too many workers for the amount of jobs these same companies pay the bare minimum skilled labour in Ontario pays around 28 an hour where in Alberta especially in the oil patch skilled labour starts at 48 the amount of compensation given to workers varies greatly between the regions.

I think this is very doable in some cases. Tenth, do you have a copy of their menu? I will bet you that they are not fast food prices... People, in the right areas, will pay well for good food...paying well allows higher wages...

The problem with most name brand fast foods is the profit margins that the owners have does not allow for 15 bucks an hour. We can blame corporate on this, but hey, they say here is you profit take it or leave it. When someone runs their own restaurant they do not deal with the middle man so to speak and so all profits go to the workers and owner.

Personally I support local restaurants whenever I can over any chain as my personal protest against the structure that creates the situation of low pay, and if millions of American did the same there would be change. But, what do we see...100s protest then head off to their favorite chain for lunch...lol

a reply to: Daavin

Agreed, in order for it to work, we need to boot out the illegals and close the border, but the corporate elite do not want that.

a reply to: jacobe001

Immigration reform has absolutely nothing to do with it and please don't include me in that train of thought our forefathers can all be considered illegal immigrants

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
i doubt very seriously they are buying organic beef.

I didn't say it was organic. It's made without hormones and preservatives, which is WAY better than what you're getting at most burger joints.

And I know the price of organic beef.

originally posted by: Shamrock6


It's not my fault the fast food worker has no skills and minimal education, and therefore can't get a job that pays better and has benefits. It's not my fault they chose a job instead of a career. It's not my fault they get paid what their "skill" is worth.

I agree to a point, and it seems that over the last 6 years what was doable as a minimum is no longer. We want to blame companies for not paying enough, but when cost of living goes up 40% over the last 6 years because our Government fails on the trillion dollar level where should the blame really lie? Go back 6 years an a family that made a gross income of 50k could survive back then but not today, so they go to where they work and demand more money, and not to the Government where they should demand it to work on reducing cost.

Low skill jobs will always be the bottom, but the bottom lately has shifted too fast for a business to keep up with it. I have less buying power today than I did in 2008, but the difference is I make really good money and so I still live well, but for about 50% or more of America they are now under with cost exceeding what they can bring in.

I think what people need to understand is that there is not a magic bullet that businesses can use in just doubling min wage over night to offset the total F-up our current administration has accomplished these last 6 years.