Finally saw the full effect of Illegal Immigration in Los Angeles. We're in trouble.

originally posted by: sdcigarpig
a reply to: Krazysh0t
Iraq, during the occupation was under the control by the USA. There was no coalition during the rebuilding and thus it success and failure lies with the USA. All other nations by the time that nation building was taking place had ended leaving the country, leaving the US to take matters into its own hands.

Oh? Those Italian soldiers that I shared my FOB in Iraq with weren't really Italian? Good to know.

No, I am using the facts in the argument. The facts are that every time amnesty is offered, or the suggestion of such, there is an increase number of border incursions in the USA, and a greater influx into the USA. It seems as though the White House turns around and makes a deal and congress does not uphold on that end of the bargin. So the current system is not working and it is time to take a more hard line stance and a tougher political stance on such. If you change the way and not stem the number of people coming into the country then there will be a mass influx. But if you slow the numbers down, or stop such, and reverse it and then turn around and put forth new regulations and a new system, then it will allow for the system to be able to handle the numbers far greater than it already is.

Were did I ever say the word "amnesty"? Didn't we already agree that I still want to deport the illegals that are here? And I AM trying to slow the numbers down by trying to get Mexicans to want to live in Mexico.

But this is not about the war on drugs. This is about Illegal immigrants, that are coming into the country, and breaking the laws of the country, and possibly causing more problems than what they should.

You can say that as many times as you want, but it will continue to not be true.

I do agree that the war on drugs has been lost, however, I also believe that the way it is handled is wrong and ultimately futile, that there needs to be more on rehabilitation, not just letting people do what they want or regulating dangerous substances. There are consequences for using those substances, and ultimately, the change needs to be made more for the rehabilitation, rather than the incarceration of said persons. Would you not agree that a person addicted to say meth or pot, has a problem and ultimately should be given the opportunity to get help to get out of said addiction?

Certainly, I have no problem having the government sanction rehabilitation programs for people who want to kick their habits.

And there in lies the problem. Here is how that happens and what will happen. These people who are fleeing are not so innocent and there are bad persons who will get through. They flee for all sorts of reasons and if they are trying to escape justice, well would you be so willing to accept a person who was lawfully convicted of rape or hit and run into the country, rather than seeing them face justice? Mind you that with any large influx of persons you get both good and bad. Mind you that this has already been seen. When New Orleans had to evacuate due to Katrina, those cities taking in the refugees got both the good and the bad, and crime rates went up due to the larger number of people. The same can be stated. And if the military can detain and send them back across the border, then that is less people we have to deal with. And if they continue to try to come in illegally, send them to prison, and when they get out, you send them home. The bottom line is that if they are going to break one set of laws, then they are very likely going to break other laws, and it is time that we stop this.

Again, I'm not advocating any sort of amnesty for them. I want the Mexicans that aren't here legally back in Mexico, and I want them motivated not to want to come back here. I want to do this by giving them positive motivations to do this instead of your idea of using more negative motivations (which don't work as well).

So you are saying the Mexican military, that is armed by the USA, given military equipment to assist in the drug war, is on the take and ultimately, that we should continue to help them out? The public would be more willing to accept the US military protecting the borders far more so than those fighting halfway across the world. And it would stem the tides as the military, would bring in military equipment, including night scopes and heat vision scopes and ultimately it would be a deterrence to the flow of people. The reality is if these people want to change what is going on in their country, they need to do it by themselves, not ask for other countries help. The moment other countries get involved, then they no longer have control over their country at all.

Do you have any idea what will happen if we legalized drugs? The cartels' primary source of income dries up and they lose their ability to bribe the military and government officials. It's already happening with all the states that are legalizing marijuana.

Also keep in mind it is OUR fault that Mexico is screwed up. WE are the ones that forced the world to make recreational drugs illegal. What is wrong with fixing our mistakes?

And there is where we disagree, all narcotics, that are currently classified as level 4 and illegal need to remain as such. We can not just merely legalize such as it would be a diseaster in the making and very little good comes of such. The hard core stuff, heroin, meth, cocain, crack, and other items like that do not help the body but causes more problems in the long run for the user. They are poison and can lead to far worse for the user. Even the use of pot is controversial and is causing more problems for those states who allow such, and it is starting to come up.

LOL you still buy this old fashioned fear rhetoric? The biggest problems coming up from the marijuana legalization effort are tax and banking problems that arise because it is still illegal on the federal level. I am WELL researched on this front and you aren't going to start slinging BS at me on this one. By the way what is a level 4 illegal drug? The government uses schedules to classify drugs and the highest schedule is schedule 1 (marijuana, heroin, acid).

I mean it's not like there isn't a real world case study we could analyze for drug legalization or anything. But nah, you just want to continue to believe the same old fear lies of the 1980's... 'This Is Working': Portugal, 12 Years after Decriminalizing Drugs

People have a choice, and it is up to them that they chose to either stand up to the cartels or not. It should not be up to the USA to dictate anything to any other country. It is a bad policy.

There ARE people doing this. And you know what happens? They are labeled vigilantes and outlaws because it's illegal to own and operate firearms in Mexico.

originally posted by: FyreByrd

Better learn to speak Spanish.

That's the most Un-American thing I have ever heard.

I'm all for putting these people in a big box and they cannot come out to take the citizenship test until they learn English.

Heck, if they are here illegally the first words I'll teach them is Deportation. They can go back into the box to learn English once they get here legally.

a reply to: JohnPhoenix

Are you not familiar with the term "cruel and unusual punishment"?

originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul
America doesn't have an official language - speaking only Spanish is no indication of anything.

Sucks to make racist assumptions huh!

No but many states do and personally I wish there was because it costs a lot of money to print things in more languages and it is troublesome to have to listen to several long messages to get to your language. it makes things easier for the kids to learn and brings us all closer when we speak the same language.


U.S. States with legislation that makes English the official language (and adoption dates)
www.washingtonpost.com...

a reply to: FyreByrd

A whole lot more "American Spirit" in the Latinos that I know

I loved my brothers and sister-in-laws when I was married to a Mexican whose Father and Brother had come here illegally and then brought the rest of the Family. I was involved with a Family of hundreds for 22 years and I can say they had hate for America and Americans. They called me names even though I was right there, they always said Mexico was there country not the USA and even the ones who learned English they would never speak it. When the draft started for vietnam they went "home" to return when it was over. They bought houses and banked their incomes in Mexico. They flew the Mexican flag and said when they retired they would go "home".

The children of all of these people were all English speaking due to school. The kids went two ways, there was the ones who went through college and got careers in all kinds of areas, lawyers, nurses etc. and the drug runners,criminals, mexican maffia, about half and half. The ones who committed crime after crime and went in and out of jail and prison and some ended up dead. One was found with a dead body in his trunk.

These people are generally wonderful people but no they did not love this country only what they could get from it and go home.

a reply to: Char-Lee

So one family is indicative of the entire population?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Char-Lee

So one family is indicative of the entire population?

Yes I think one very large Family and all the relatives (most of the town) are indicative of the slice of population.

You don't need to agree but I have lived long enough and seen enough here and in Mexico, to have developed this opinion.

a reply to: Char-Lee

I guess you've never taken a formal statistics class then... Because if you had, you'd know that no, your sample population is a bad sample to describe the population at large.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Char-Lee

I guess you've never taken a formal statistics class then... Because if you had, you'd know that no, your sample population is a bad sample to describe the population at large.

Actually i have taken such a class and I am not giving an example i am giving an experience and OPINION.

a reply to: Char-Lee

And I am saying that your opinion is ill formed because it takes from an improper sampling size. And actually what you are trying to do is generalize an entire minority class based on the experiences with a few. A lot of people recognize that as racism.

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: Night Star
a reply to: FyreByrd

Kind - naw - self-centered much?

Me of all people? Hahahahaha! If you really knew me, you would laugh at that too.

My point is made.

Ever hear of the Dunning Krueger Effect.

Your point is NOT made. You have no idea how much I do for others, how often I think of others before myself. OMG, you couldn't be more wrong.

Someone on the internet said that if a country does not have defensible borders, it's not a country. The country is gone.

originally posted by: MarkJS
Someone on the internet said that if a country does not have defensible borders, it's not a country. The country is gone.

"Someone on the internet said...." REALLY.

ya... someone.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Char-Lee

And I am saying that your opinion is ill formed because it takes from an improper sampling size. And actually what you are trying to do is generalize an entire minority class based on the experiences with a few. A lot of people recognize that as racism.

A lot of people who don't spend much time in thought might recognize stating facts of ones own experience as racism.

You do with it as you will, I have never had to defend myself against accusations of racism for good reason nor of blatant rudeness, harassment or unkindness!

originally posted by: Char-Lee
a reply to: FyreByrd

A whole lot more "American Spirit" in the Latinos that I know

I loved my brothers and sister-in-laws when I was married to a Mexican whose Father and Brother had come here illegally and then brought the rest of the Family. I was involved with a Family of hundreds for 22 years and I can say they had hate for America and Americans. They called me names even though I was right there, they always said Mexico was there country not the USA and even the ones who learned English they would never speak it. When the draft started for vietnam they went "home" to return when it was over. They bought houses and banked their incomes in Mexico. They flew the Mexican flag and said when they retired they would go "home".

The children of all of these people were all English speaking due to school. The kids went two ways, there was the ones who went through college and got careers in all kinds of areas, lawyers, nurses etc. and the drug runners,criminals, mexican maffia, about half and half. The ones who committed crime after crime and went in and out of jail and prison and some ended up dead. One was found with a dead body in his trunk.

These people are generally wonderful people but no they did not love this country only what they could get from it and go home.

ZOMG Racist Racist Racist..you hate Mexicans!!!

Wait....

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Char-Lee

And I am saying that your opinion is ill formed because it takes from an improper sampling size. And actually what you are trying to do is generalize an entire minority class based on the experiences with a few. A lot of people recognize that as racism.

I've lived in Los Angeles and California for 35 years total. I went to a 85% Hispanic school for one year. I've lived all over Los Angeles. I've dated numerous Hispanic women, including Mexicans, including two ILLEGAL Immigrants. I've done business with Employers of Illegals. I've lived in entire Mexican neighborhoods. And as my OP shows I have FIRST hand experience on a regular basis for the past 20 years with "Illegals.

I also speak Spanish.

I would say I'm an "expert" at the Illegal Immigrant debate...by osmosis. Just living in Southern California is like having a PHD in "Illegal Immigration" studies.

What experiences do YOU have? I'm curious.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I've lived here for 68 years. My dad used to take me jack rabbit hunting in Fox Hills. Torrance was dairy farms. You could own horses in Inglewood.

A LOT has changed in Los Angekes. There's more people of all kinds.

Ethnic groups lived in their own areas. They didn't mingle much before the Fair Housing act.

Mexicans could come and go across the border, visit family, go shopping etc. There were work programs that bussed Mexicans from the border to jobs and back again. I don't remember hearing the term Illegal Alien.

Then some politician, in Texas I think. Ran on the platform of Ilkegals taking American jobs. Everything went to hell after that.

Kind of like North snd South Korea ---- families were being divided. They could no longer go back and forth. Work programs and migrant worker programs were shut down. If you can no longer visit your family --- your only option is to keep them with you.

It's been a long process. Stuff doesn't just happen overnight.

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I've lived here for 68 years. My dad used to take me jack rabbit hunting in Fox Hills. Torrance was dairy farms. You could own horses in Inglewood.

A LOT has changed in Los Angekes. There's more people of all kinds.

Ethnic groups lived in their own areas. They didn't mingle much before the Fair Housing act.

Mexicans could come and go across the border, visit family, go shopping etc. There were work programs that bussed Mexicans from the border to jobs and back again. I don't remember hearing the term Illegal Alien.

Then some politician, in Texas I think. Ran on the platform of Ilkegals taking American jobs. Everything went to hell after that.

Kind of like North snd South Korea ---- families were being divided. They could no longer go back and forth. Work programs and migrant worker programs were shut down. If you can no longer visit your family --- your only option is to keep them with you.

It's been a long process. Stuff doesn't just happen overnight.

It's funny you mention the areas you did.

I grew up in the LAX area. I ran those exact hills with my bike as a kid. My Aunt worked for Hughes Aircraft below that hill when it was there. And Inglewood, right next door as you know, used to be a majority black neighborhood.

Guess who kicked them out and took over?

Take a wild guess? Have you been their recently?

I grew up at Hollywood Park.

Small World..