Personal Responsability and drug addiction...

Ok let me start by saying i do not care about drugs that is not the point of the thread, the point of the thread is personal responsibility so please do everyone a favor and do not talk about drugs please, thanks.

Now i already know youll see me talking crap about the personal responsibility clingers on ATS who use that at as an end all be all answer to the economy, however in this thread youll see how i feel about its true meaning and how it should be getting used, in this instance.

Now ive been dealing with drug and alcohol problems since i was a child, and i had my own problems with alcohol as an adult. Something ive learned throughout this paradigm is that you cannot blame the alcohol if you become a bad person or a crazy person on the alcohol. You cant sit down and say, "The alcohol turns me into a bad person". Well, in my opinion, no it doesnt. For sure, you black out, make bad choices and become an addict and all of it. Yea those things happen when your on to much alcohol. Now here is where responsibility comes into to the picture. The problem is not that the alcohol makes you crazy or stupid or annoying or angry, its that you drink to much and lose control of yourself.

I apply this way of thinking to all drugs across the board, even coffee. I get it that some drugs are more addictive then others but that still falls into the same way of thinking it doesnt matter. I know people start stealing and doing this and that when they are on dope but they dont when they arent, i get it, i get that entire point. That doesnt change anything. The fact is you allow those things to control you. You have to say no, you have to not be willing to lose control.

This is a bigger issue then just responsability too. Theres more to it. There is a power play in this. It has to do with you owning and taking control of this part of yourself. You need to conquer this. You have be willing to not relinquish control you have to be forceful with yourself, like a master.

These principles are not taught in AA in this same way that im telling you about them now. They are taught different. They are taught to give up power, they are taught to be victims and that they have no control over this and this is absolutely not true its a complete and total lie.

I am sure a lot of theses issues are to do with genes , and kids growing up watching things and thinking it is normal to do as their parents did it so it must be ok .

It took me 40 + years too get control but sometimes i slip up , like last week i had a slip up and got involved at a party i got dragged along to , i have a huge problem with saying NO .

3 days of feeling like hell for a few hours that i do not remember much about - life and soul of the party i was told but as soon as i hit the fresh air -- blank till i woke up the next day

We are responsible for our actions no matter what drug or substance we are using.

This is what they should be teaching us, not using our addictions as an excuse to justify our actions. I never could see getting a lesser sentence for admitting you were an alcoholic or drug user. I have known a lot of people in the past that didn't do crimes who used these substances. The drug can influence you to disregard your morals but if you are strong you can resist. These things do not make you bad, they just make your bad worse.

S&F OP. You started a good thread.

One time is a mistake, people should learn from their mistakes. Our judicial system tries to allow for our learning process and tries to give us a break on our first slips. Some people see this as loopholes to exploit.

a reply to: rickymouse

The only point i disagree with you on is the judicial system part. Ive personally had the opposite experience.

a reply to: onequestion

You don't allow those things to take control over you, the alcohol takes control over you. And that is why one has to quiet. You can only say you're in control when you're clean. Real responsibility only comes into play when you're not under the influence. Alcohol is one hell of a drug, and like all addictions: it alters the working of the brain. It's all or nothing. When you choose nothing; every thing you say holds true. You cannot drink and apply the things you say. Only when you're clean ( it suddenly isn't an issue anymore). So yes, it is alcohol related. An addict doesn't have a lot of choises, except quiting or maintaining the addiction.

a reply to: WeZet

Thats exactly what im talking about.

Why is it that you cant take full power over it and control it?

a reply to: onequestion
Good question. Genetics maybe.

The thing is, most people who drink are not alcoholics. Why is that? Most people can have one or two drinks and be done with it.

That doesn't seem to be the case with opiates.

originally posted by: onequestion
These principles are not taught in AA in this same way that im telling you about them now. They are taught different. They are taught to give up power, they are taught to be victims and that they have no control over this and this is absolutely not true its a complete and total lie.

Agreed 100%! Back in the '80's I joined NA (Narcotics Anonymous, the "other drug" spinoff of AA) when I decided I needed to stop my drug use, which had gotten 'way beyond recreational. After a year or so of meetings, I came to the same conclusion: believing that addiction is a disease, being powerless over it, & leaving it all in the hands of a higher power to stop, is just a way of avoiding the responsibility that stares you in the face every time you look in a mirror. When you look in the mirror, you're seeing the primary cause of your addiction.

I'm curious to know what kind of reactions you got in your AA meetings if you ever told anyone your opinion as stated above. I did, & got reactions ranging from acceptance from a couple of other people (one said, "As far as I'm concerned, the purpose of this organization is to help you get to a point where you no longer need this organization"), to anger on the part of many, & outright hostility on the part of a few others.

I don't believe addiction is a disease; I was the one who learned to be an addict. & while I can't unlearn anything, I had to learn how not to do it anymore. It was a personal breakthrough for me at the time, & I was happy to share it with others, until I got tired of having people go off on me. I realized then that I was threatening the concept that was helping them to stay away from drugs, & decided not to talk about it anymore at meetings. I did feel, though, that the organization had the potential to become a substitute addiction, so I soon stopped going, but never resumed my former self-destructive pastime.

May you stay strong!

a reply to: onequestion

I've asked that same question. The only way to control it is to make the decision to not drink/use. That's the answer for me, personally, and believe me I tried everything to get around that!

Some people can just have a couple of beers or a glass of wine and stop, whereas I felt so good after one drink that I convinced myself two would be better. Two WAS better, so I went for a third. So it went over the years into full-blown addictions.

All mind-altering substances were like that, but it took decades to finally admit that once I start I just don't have the ability to moderate. The reason that makes the most sense to me is brain/body chemistry. Some people have grand mal seizures from eating a peanut; most don't. We all have different sensitivities. It has nothing to do with weakness or lack of willpower.

a reply to: Phage

Im not sold on the genetics angle.

I think we have more control then that. Ive extert control over myself and i think it was my choice that made it happen and not a chemical reaction.

a reply to: BuzzCory

I'm curious to know what kind of reactions you got in your AA meetings if you ever told anyone your opinion as stated above.

I went to AA as a kid growing up for many years. Not as an adult. I face down my problems head on as an adult and i seek no escape.

I don't believe addiction is a disease; I was the one who learned to be an addict.

I agree.

I did feel, though, that the organization had the potential to become a substitute addiction, so I soon stopped going, but never resumed my former self-destructive pastime.

I think they are sold on the idea of victimization, and thats the hardest part to understand.

a reply to: onequestion

The solution appears paradoxical but inevitably it is the absolute truth. By seeing them as a problem you have coincidentally created a habitual tendency to create a problem out of a problem. What I mean is you have established alcohol and drugs as a believed problem and by indulging in them you now think you have a problem. This causes you to think about trying not to think about desiring them. Don't think about drugs and alcohol, don't allow them to have an existence within your psyche. When the thought arises, whether its about wanting or not wanting substances, do not pay attention to it. Let it float in and out of your mind without grasping it and giving it thoughtful attention.

Its not the substances that are causing your addiction, its your minds incessant thoughts about them that stimulate cravings. Pull your attention away from your mind, find some sort of activity that keeps you preoccupied and you'll notice that you dont crave anything when you're not paying attention to your thoughts.

a reply to: EviLCHiMP

Well. great post thanks.

a reply to: onequestion

You're very welcome. It took me many years of struggling to discover such a simple truth. You really are not your mind, you're just an observer of it. Trust me I know it seems rather strange but we literally are incapable of controlling our mind because when we try to not think of something we literally begin to think about not thinking about it. The mind becomes a trap if we try to force it to do anything, like a chinese finger-trap.

But, if we train our attention to focus on other things eventually the mind becomes quiet and suddenly we are free of cravings, anxiety, and stress. Think about it this way; If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there, does it make a sound? If a thought passes through a mind but nobody is paying attention to it, does the thought produce any desire or craving?

a reply to: EviLCHiMP

Man i wish it was that simple. So choose not to think about it right?

I have stern resolve so for me when i make my mind up its made it theres no deterrent but for others i dont imagine it works like that.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: WeZet

Thats exactly what im talking about.

Why is it that you cant take full power over it and control it?

It is like a voice calling to me, something more than, "want".

I can't explain it. I even voluntarily went and paid a shrink to ask him "why", waht makes me tick.

It helped me. About 1 1/2 years alcohol free this time.

The voice is lower than a whisper at the moment.

originally posted by: onequestion


These principles are not taught in AA in this same way that im telling you about them now. They are taught different. They are taught to give up power, they are taught to be victims and that they have no control over this and this is absolutely not true its a complete and total lie.

AA is an addiction transference program. It attempts to transfer the addiction from a substance to AA, itself. The addictive behavior continues but the fix is the AA religion.

a reply to: onequestion

Its all to do with personal responsibility. Nothing more.

I have zero patience for people who turn to drink and drugs and I do not consider them to be of sound mind. I barely trust their opinion on anything and I find them extremely weak willed individuals...which is obvious as they wouldn't turn to substances as a relief, cure or coping mechanism.

Its about knowing right from wrong and having the fortitude to not be a clown!! Take control of your own life and decisions. Very simple.

And AA...seems rather religiously overtoned for what it supposed to achieve. What the hell has a a person who has never existed got to do with cure. Why swap one addiction like drugs for another like god!

originally posted by: projectbane
a reply to: onequestion

Its all to do with personal responsibility. Nothing more.

I have zero patience for people who turn to drink and drugs and I do not consider them to be of sound mind. I barely trust their opinion on anything and I find them extremely weak willed individuals...which is obvious as they wouldn't turn to substances as a relief, cure or coping mechanism.

Its about knowing right from wrong and having the fortitude to not be a clown!! Take control of your own life and decisions. Very simple.

And AA...seems rather religiously overtoned for what it supposed to achieve. What the hell has a a person who has never existed got to do with cure. Why swap one addiction like drugs for another like god!

It's more than religiously overtoned. Several federal courts have ruled that AA is a religion.