Mars Attacked

originally posted by: andre18
a reply to: KROandSOTV

You fail to understand the effort of relevant supporting data the author has gone to the trouble of researching, in order to formulate into the book's theory. To dismiss it as unimportant because it's not yet verified is the most mindfully dishonest a person can be. Every book you read, depends on how well they've put their theory together, then provides theories that others can be influenced by and test themselves.

No one is saying these books are fact or that we should accept these claims out right, but the lack of evidence is never a dismissal, but a waiting period until more books and research can be collected and added to it.

You're expecting too much. Very unreasonable. What kind of evidence would you expect from a book? other then the accumulation of years of papers of satellite and rover mars data, that's been analysed and expanded upon. For you to say any of this research isn't quality evidence because it''s not the final proof demonstrates a lack of basic understanding of how science and research works.

I'm expecting to much?

Of course i am i'm not the one promoting a book a bout a race of aliens that wiped Mars away and now they are coming for Earth,Whats unreasonable about that.

a reply to: KROandSOTV

As far as I'm aware he's not selling a book but publicising his paper which is available for free.
journalofcosmology.com...

a reply to: gortex

Dr Brandenburg has authored a number of books with his latest, Death on Mars: The Discovery of a Planetary Nuclear Massacre, to be published in February 2015.

Read more: article
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originally posted by: AthlonSavage
Immediately I think Stories of Ufos shutting down nuclear weapons on silo bases and wonder are they doing that to protect us from our misuse or accidental use of the weapons or are they doing it as a trial run for invasion day. Aliens are the friend or foe?

there might be a connection

originally posted by: andre18
a reply to: KROandSOTV

You fail to understand the effort of relevant supporting data the author has gone to the trouble of researching, in order to formulate into the book's theory. To dismiss it as unimportant because it's not yet verified is the most mindfully dishonest a person can be. Every book you read, depends on how well they've put their theory together, then provides theories that others can be influenced by and test themselves.

No one is saying these books are fact or that we should accept these claims out right, but the lack of evidence is never a dismissal, but a waiting period until more books and research can be collected and added to it.

You're expecting too much. Very unreasonable. What kind of evidence would you expect from a book? other then the accumulation of years of papers of satellite and rover mars data, that's been analysed and expanded upon. For you to say any of this research isn't quality evidence because it''s not the final proof demonstrates a lack of basic understanding of how science and research works.

Bravo!!

This is exactly right.

The fact is, when you write a book that doesn't fit with a persons blind beliefs, there's a knee jerk reaction that there isn't any evidence or they must be doing this for money. How do you know that he doesn't already have money?

They have no evidence and they blindly impugn the guys character because this is easier than actually reading and listening to what he's saying.

a reply to: neoholographic

The fact is, when you write a book that doesn't fit with a persons blind beliefs, there's a knee jerk reaction that there isn't any evidence or they must be doing this for money.

But the truth of the matter is that books ARE written to fit in exactly with peoples blind beliefs. Books sell and certain topics sell better than other topics. Aliens sell books. Its what is known as a trend and from what I have seen so far, he is very trendy.

How do you know that he doesn't already have money?

because its not going to be a free book?

a reply to: gortex

Thanks for the post and good find.

If people were to actually read the paper, he's making a very strong case that recently observed evidence convinces him that there was a nuclear explosion in Mars past. Again, this isn't some kook but a well credentialed Scientist.

The fact is, some people are so blinded by their beliefs they can't even look at these things from a rationale standpoint.

Here's the abstract:

The Fermi Paradox is the unexpected silence of the cosmos under the Assumption of Mediocrity, in a cosmos known to have abundant planets and life precursor chemicals. On Mars, the nearest Earthlike planet in the cosmos, the concentration of 129Xe in the Martian atmosphere, the evidence from 80Kr abundance of intense 1014/cm2 flux over the Northern young part of Mars, and the detected pattern of excess abundance of Uranium and Thorium on Mars surface, relative to Mars meteorites, can be explained as due to two large thermonuclear explosions on Mars in the past. Based on the pattern of thorium and radioactive potassium gamma radiation, the explosions were centered in the Northern plains in Mare Acidalium at approximately 50N, 30W, near Cydonia Mensa and in Utopia Planum at approximately 50N 120W near Galaxias Chaos, both locations of possible archeological artifacts. The xenon isotope mass spectrum of the Mars atmosphere matches that from open air nuclear testing on Earth and is characteristic of fast neutron fission rather than that produced by a moderated nuclear reactor. The high abundance of Ar cannot be explained by mass ractionation during atmospheric loss, and must be the result of neutron capture on 39K, also requiring an intense neutron flux on the Mars surface as is the high abundance of 17N and deuterium. Modeling the 129Xe component in the Mars atmosphere as due to fast neutron fission and the 80Kr as due to delayed neutrons from a planet-wide debris layer, and assuming an explosive disassembly of uranium-thorium casing into a planet wide debris layer with 10% residue, all three estimates arrive at approximately 1025 J, or a yield of 10/10 Megatons. This is similar to the Chicxulub event on Earth and would be large enough to create a
global catastrophe and change Mars global climate. The absence of craters at the site suggests centers of the explosions were above the ground. The explosions appear due to very large fusion-fission devices of similar design as seen on Earth, and the Acidalia device, the largest, being approximately 80 meter radius. The explosions appear correlated with two sites of possible archeology, sites which formed the basis for the Cydonian Hypothesis. The Cydonian Hypothesis is therefore reconsidered in the light of new imaging and geochemical data. A model of Earthlike eroded archeology is adopted for comparison with Mars artifacts using the pyramids at Giza and the Sphinx and Olmec heads as analogs under the Principle of Mediocrity with attention to details. The new images of the Face at Cydonia Mensa confirm eyes, nose, mouth, helmet structure with additional detail of nostrils and helmet ornaments being clearly seen in new images with details at approximately 1/10 scale of the face. New imagery confirms the pyramid structure seen in Viking images of the the D&M pyramid and new high resolution images show evidence of collapsed brickwork. New images of a face found at Galaxias Chaos (the Utopia site) confirms facial structure with eyes, nose, mouth and helmet. High resolution imagery shows symmetric brickwork around the nose region. The civilization appears to have been primitive and indigenous to Mars. Taken together, the evidence suggests that Mars was the locale of a planetary nuclear massacre. The answer to Fermi’s Paradox may thus lie on Mars. It is recommended that a mission for human occupation of Mars be immediately initiated to maximize knowledge of what transpired there.

What's over the edge?

If you understand what he's talking about, you see he makes a strong case. Again, am I saying that he's correct? No I'm not.

I'm saying I will read and listen to these things because my beliefs are not threatened by what he says.

A blind believer who wants to blindly dismiss these things has already made a decision before they even click on the thread.

its a free on-line book/journal

believe it or not

a reply to: neoholographic

I'm saying I will read and listen to these things because my beliefs are not threatened by what he says.

Your beliefs will most likely be confirmed.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: KROandSOTV

As far as I'm aware he's not selling a book but publicising his paper which is available for free.
journalofcosmology.com...

Ahh yes... the Journal of Cosmology.

:-))

originally posted by: neoholographic
a reply to: gortex

Thanks for the post and good find.

If people were to actually read the paper, he's making a very strong case that recently observed evidence convinces him that there was a nuclear explosion in Mars past. Again, this isn't some kook but a well credentialed Scientist.

The fact is, some people are so blinded by their beliefs they can't even look at these things from a rationale standpoint.

Here's the abstract:

The Fermi Paradox is the unexpected silence of the cosmos under the Assumption of Mediocrity, in a cosmos known to have abundant planets and life precursor chemicals. On Mars, the nearest Earthlike planet in the cosmos, the concentration of 129Xe in the Martian atmosphere, the evidence from 80Kr abundance of intense 1014/cm2 flux over the Northern young part of Mars, and the detected pattern of excess abundance of Uranium and Thorium on Mars surface, relative to Mars meteorites, can be explained as due to two large thermonuclear explosions on Mars in the past. Based on the pattern of thorium and radioactive potassium gamma radiation, the explosions were centered in the Northern plains in Mare Acidalium at approximately 50N, 30W, near Cydonia Mensa and in Utopia Planum at approximately 50N 120W near Galaxias Chaos, both locations of possible archeological artifacts. The xenon isotope mass spectrum of the Mars atmosphere matches that from open air nuclear testing on Earth and is characteristic of fast neutron fission rather than that produced by a moderated nuclear reactor. The high abundance of Ar cannot be explained by mass ractionation during atmospheric loss, and must be the result of neutron capture on 39K, also requiring an intense neutron flux on the Mars surface as is the high abundance of 17N and deuterium. Modeling the 129Xe component in the Mars atmosphere as due to fast neutron fission and the 80Kr as due to delayed neutrons from a planet-wide debris layer, and assuming an explosive disassembly of uranium-thorium casing into a planet wide debris layer with 10% residue, all three estimates arrive at approximately 1025 J, or a yield of 10/10 Megatons. This is similar to the Chicxulub event on Earth and would be large enough to create a
global catastrophe and change Mars global climate. The absence of craters at the site suggests centers of the explosions were above the ground. The explosions appear due to very large fusion-fission devices of similar design as seen on Earth, and the Acidalia device, the largest, being approximately 80 meter radius. The explosions appear correlated with two sites of possible archeology, sites which formed the basis for the Cydonian Hypothesis. The Cydonian Hypothesis is therefore reconsidered in the light of new imaging and geochemical data. A model of Earthlike eroded archeology is adopted for comparison with Mars artifacts using the pyramids at Giza and the Sphinx and Olmec heads as analogs under the Principle of Mediocrity with attention to details. The new images of the Face at Cydonia Mensa confirm eyes, nose, mouth, helmet structure with additional detail of nostrils and helmet ornaments being clearly seen in new images with details at approximately 1/10 scale of the face. New imagery confirms the pyramid structure seen in Viking images of the the D&M pyramid and new high resolution images show evidence of collapsed brickwork. New images of a face found at Galaxias Chaos (the Utopia site) confirms facial structure with eyes, nose, mouth and helmet. High resolution imagery shows symmetric brickwork around the nose region. The civilization appears to have been primitive and indigenous to Mars. Taken together, the evidence suggests that Mars was the locale of a planetary nuclear massacre. The answer to Fermi’s Paradox may thus lie on Mars. It is recommended that a mission for human occupation of Mars be immediately initiated to maximize knowledge of what transpired there.

What's over the edge?

If you understand what he's talking about, you see he makes a strong case. Again, am I saying that he's correct? No I'm not.

I'm saying I will read and listen to these things because my beliefs are not threatened by what he says.

A blind believer who wants to blindly dismiss these things has already made a decision before they even click on the thread.

Thank you for contributing to this thread very much appreciated.same to the rest of the ATS members

I have read the paper and to me he is talking out of his arris,Its all conjecture and theory's.

I have a theory on the destruction of Mars.

2billion yrs ago Earth was a space faring planet,we needed something from Mars so we attacked destroyed thier planet but in the process they destroyed Earth.What was left of the beings from earth they went off in to deep space never to be heard of again. Fortunately their weapons was not as powerful as the beings from Earths so Earth survived Mars didnt.

Now do you belive that or is it complete codswallop?

lets see how open minded you really are.

a reply to: neoholographic

Again, this isn't some kook but a well credentialed Scientist.

I agree , his credentials are fine and work on the paper good , unfortunately when he brings the Face on Mars to a science paper suddenly it's not science anymore , his annotations of features he sees on the clearer pictures of the feature are pure fantasy.

To me he seems like someone who's trying to use science to back up his own beliefs.

originally posted by: ZetaRediculian
a reply to: neoholographic

I'm saying I will read and listen to these things because my beliefs are not threatened by what he says.

Your beliefs will most likely be confirmed.

What??

I can see I already disagree with him when it comes to the Fermi Paradox.

I have a Newsflash for you.

Some people can actually read these things with an open mind. Sadly, there's many closed minded people who are threatened because someone dares to think differently than they do.

a reply to: gortex

This isn't the case and this is why you have to read the abstract.

He talks about the face on Mars after he goes over the Scientific evidence that a nuclear explosion may have occurred.

What he's simply saying is there may have been a similar civilization to the Egyptians that may have lived on Mars in the past and most of them were wiped out by this explosion.

Again, it would only be about his beliefs if you blindly ignore the first half of the abstract.

He lays out a strong Scientific case in the paper that a nuclear explosion may have occurred on Mars. I don't see any problem with him talking about the face on Mars after he has laid out his initial evidence.

a reply to: neoholographic

Again, it would only be about his beliefs if you blindly ignore the first half of the abstract

Sorry but if it's published as a scientific paper I don't think you can separate them , they are two parts of the same document.

If he can see Helmet ornaments , eyes, nostrils and mouth in that picture then he's seeing what he wants to see , if he does that with pictures who's to say he doesn't do it with his data ?
Add all this in with his association with Richard Hoagland and the case for this being anything more that fantasy disappears.

originally posted by: neoholographic
What??

huh?

I can see I already disagree with him when it comes to the Fermi Paradox.

I know because aliens are already here! I was going to point that contradiction out to you.

I have a Newsflash for you.

cool.

Some people can actually read these things with an open mind. Sadly, there's many closed minded people who are threatened because someone dares to think differently than they do.

Are you saying you are threatened by the way I think?

I look at these things from all different perspectives. With this, it seems to be following a trend. I already looked at all the statues and structures on Mars. I even believed it for a time. That he is dumping his stuff in with the rest of it, IS a turn off for me. This is why I think his target audience is not "open minded" folks but people that already believe in the established mythology.

He may have found something of value but instead of having it stand on it own, he chooses to add to a myth.

a reply to: gortex

if he does that with pictures who's to say he doesn't do it with his data ?

True. That's called Apophenia

Pareidolia is a type of Apophenia

a reply to: gortex


Again, you have to read the paper.

The two aren't mutually exclusive and when he talks about Cydonia, he talks about the Principle of Mediocrity. I repeat:

A model of Earthlike eroded archeology is adopted for comparison with Mars artifacts using the pyramids at Giza and the Sphinx and Olmec heads as analogs under the Principle of Mediocrity with attention to details. The new images of the Face at Cydonia Mensa confirm eyes, nose, mouth, helmet structure with additional detail of nostrils and helmet ornaments being clearly seen in new images with details at approximately 1/10 scale of the face. New imagery confirms the pyramid structure seen in Viking images of the the D&M pyramid and new high resolution images show evidence of collapsed brickwork.

He's not just talking about the face on Mars in isolation and he explains further in the paper why he makes these observations.

This is my point.

I don't agree with him on the Face on Mars, but I do agree that there could be man made artifacts on Mars. I'm fine with saying I don't know for sure and it's people who want to act like they know for sure just want to support there beliefs in one way or another.

The fact is, it would be silly to dismiss what he said about a nuclear explosion that may have occurred in the past on Mars because you read about the Face on Mars. Like I said, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

People can't be so blind that they can't read a paper with an open mind and separate these things when the author clearly tells you he's using the Principle of Mediocrity as a way of explaining what may have happened in Mars past.

a reply to: neoholographic

The two aren't mutually exclusive

True. Pareidolia and life on Mars can happen together. The point is that he is associating with questionable "science" even by your own standards. He is linking things together without any evidence they are linked. So his overall theory kind of falls apart. Evidence of nuclear explosions on Mars would be interesting all on their own.

a reply to: ZetaRediculian

They fall apart in your eyes. He's not using questionable science, he's just using the Principle of Mediocrity to say what may have happened in the past on Mars that might explain the evidence he's come up with about a nuclear explosion in the past on Mars.

Of course someone whose looking for any excuse to try to discredit him will try to use this to say, ignore everything he said because he mentioned the face on Mars.

You're just fishing for any excuse.

First you said it's because he's writing a book and now you have switched to a new argument that makes even less sense when you read what he actually said.

Again, you're just fishing for a reason to say don't use your brain and actually read what he's saying. Again:

A model of Earthlike eroded archeology is adopted for comparison with Mars artifacts using the pyramids at Giza and the Sphinx and Olmec heads as analogs under the Principle of Mediocrity with attention to details. The new images of the Face at Cydonia Mensa confirm eyes, nose, mouth, helmet structure with additional detail of nostrils and helmet ornaments being clearly seen in new images with details at approximately 1/10 scale of the face. New imagery confirms the pyramid structure seen in Viking images of the the D&M pyramid and new high resolution images show evidence of collapsed brickwork.

This doesn't discredit him or the Science he uses to support his theory that they may have been a nuclear explosion in Mars past.