Sexism, Misogyny and the rise and rise and rise of the internet asshole....

a reply to: Dark Ghost


I don't have a specific argument or point on what you wrote there- I am digesting it still. I just have a thought provoked ...

Why is it more common for men to hear "Go kill yourself" than "I will come kill you" ?

I mean, I will come kill you is more an equivalent to "I will come rape you".

Hard to feel threatened by another when they say "go kill yourself".

Just pondering. Strange difference in insult style.

a reply to: Bluesma

You are right that they are different types of insults and I should have clarified better.

Threats of violence and death threats against the individual (or their relative/friend) are far more common than the "go kill yourself" insult, you are correct. I just used that "go kill yourself" insult because it happened rather recently and was in my mind still.

The actual point I was attempting to make is that people of both sexes have it bad, and things are not any worse for women than for men online, it's just men tend to voice their grievances less often.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

When was the last time someone threatened to rape you?

Do you understand the psychological concept of rape to a woman and the effects of actual rape?

I'm guessing you dont, because if you did you would not be sounding so callous about it.

a reply to: neformore

Threats from someone who is highly unlikely to even be able to carry out the abhorrent act.
Takes physical proximity for one.
And even then.
Doesn't mean they'd actually do it.

originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: Dark Ghost

When was the last time someone threatened to rape you?

Do you understand the psychological concept of rape to a woman and the effects of actual rape?

I'm guessing you dont, because if you did you would not be sounding so callous about it.

Unless you have been a victim of sexual assault in the past, it would likely just come across as a distasteful insult (not ALL women are victims of sexual assault btw, AND men can be rape victims too).

I am not being callous about rape at all, it's in your head because you appear to have a strong emotional connection to the topic.

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

You have no concept of psychology at all, do you?

That's kind of disturbing.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Ah okay. I understand better.
Point taken! I agree that this sort of behavior targets both sexes.
I also agree that women tend to be more vocal, in general, about how they feel and how things effect them.
I am not sure that means there is always a huge difference in how they feel inside.


Having men in my life who confide in me, I am aware that things touch them just as much, they lose sleep over the same things, they just don't want to expose it, they want to give the impression of being insensitive.

They have reason, too, in terms of dealing with other men in competative areas- exposing a weak spot is bound to just excite them and attract more of the same.

I find often times women will actually have a tendency to back off when they perceive there is a sensitive area, and expect men to do the same.



I think that if we are looking at the question of misogyny and sexism, the focus point should be more statements and assertions which refer to the the whole gender, rather than the individual?

I mean, saying "All women are idiots that can't tie their own shoes", rather than "you are an idiot woman that can't tie her own shoe". ?

I've been in discussions online where an immature male goes on for paragraphs in insults towards my person, and that just is easy to overlook as childish nonsense.... but it is the assertions about "all women" that bug me more and seem more dangerous because they are ideas that can propagate and give rise to actions in real life. A boy that learns about women through listening or reading such statements might be influenced with certain expectations when he begins actually engaging with females as a teen!
-That's where the concept of other men speaking up and expressing a different attitude about women could be very vital?


I don't know if it just my own limited experience or what- I'd like to hear others perceptions of this- but I don't often (if ever) hear women make insults upon "all men", though I often hear them made by men about "all women" ?

Perhaps that depends upon your entourage? I probably find myself more often with mature women who have husbands and sons they love and appreciate, so refrain from such negative generalizations....

a reply to: neformore

Couldn't refrain from ad hom could you?

That's disturbing.


I'm quite familiar with psychology thank you very much.
Unless you wish to, you know, back up your claim with proof.
Proof being studies that show somehow just getting threatened over the net is somehow nearly or as damaging as actually having those threats acted upon.

Instead of just flinging insults that it.

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

It's not ad hom. It's an observation based on the way you are framing your argument.

Here's another one, if you understand the psychological factors, your arguments so far are hypocritical, as you appear to be dismissing he subject as trivial, by suggesting that in order for an act to be intimidating it has to have an end result.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

If thinking that fellow males threatening to rape women makes them assholes is having a "strong emotional connection" to the subject, then yes I do.

a reply to: neformore

Then you're obviously not paying attention to what I'm saying.

Hypocritical?
Really?
I would love to see the "rationale" behind that one.

And quite frankly, what I am seeing here screams of a call to censorship.
Do I agree with them saying such crap?
Heck no.
Do I find it distasteful?
Yes very much so.
But so long as they do not act on those threats or even set to groundwork to act upon said threats.
It's just words.
And I'm sorry but no amount of psychology, which I might add you've invoked in name only.
Is going to change that.
You don't have a right to demand to be coddled because your sensitive.
Because that infringes upon other's right.
And could be used to excuse greater infringements.

And even then, there are places set aside for those who do not want to hear that crap.
I agree with their existence, ATS is supposedly one of them.

a reply to: tony9802

Take for example child molestors or prostitute killers, and the type of information they might look up to find and control someone..the searching on the internet may not be illegal, but the intention behind the searching is. Policing thought and intention, in those cases, isn't always necessarily a bad thing in my opinion, but that would be a whole new thread obviously altogether.

If it were up to me, I would use bona fide mind readers and serious psychics to control criminal conduct pre-emptively..that would not amount to mind control in any way, at least not in my opinion; Stopping filthy polluted minds from committing vile, repulsive crimes would actually, in my opinion, be a good thing.

This is called tyranny, tony. I fear we do not have much more to say to each other.

a reply to: Bluesma

I admit, I don't much support that it is fine for a man to look up my young daughter's info on the net and be able to find her physically. I don't especially want my sons involved in activities or with people who will encourage him to do such a thing to someone else. Call me evil freedom basher. I'm just saying what I feel, I am not actually stopping you or anyone else from doing so.

And why would you allow your young daughter to put her info on the net? Why does anyone put their life's details on the internet?

a reply to: neformore

The thread title is fine, thanks.

The thread isn't about limiting personal freedoms. It's about personal responsibility, and people who simply cannot conduct themselves in a manner that reflects civilised behaviour.

You can try and couch it any other way you want, but threatening to rape a woman is not an exercise in freedom of speech, it's simply being an asshole.

There is no justification for such an action.

Yes the thread title is fine. It should remain as a shining beacon of human folly.

There is no need to put a spin on it, like "personal responsibility", when you have already threatened to beat people with a baseball bat in the original post.

I wonder how many threats of rape on the internet has translated into actual rapes, and I wonder how many threats of hitting people with a baseball bat in the head has led to such an action. My guess is zero, as that would first mean one would have to get out of his chair.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: Bluesma

And why would you allow your young daughter to put her info on the net? Why does anyone put their life's details on the internet?

Does someone have to purposefully put their information on the net for it to be available?

I have found out that information of my own became available for people looking for me, without my permission or choice.

originally posted by: tony9802
If it were up to me, I would use bona fide mind readers and serious psychics to control criminal conduct pre-emptively..that would not amount to mind control in any way, at least not in my opinion; Stopping filthy polluted minds from committing vile, repulsive crimes would actually, in my opinion, be a good thing.

I don't think you've thought this one through. What will you be thinking when someone winds up in charge of this system who has very different opinions from you on what is acceptable to think about? Or bribes a reader/psychic to say you were thinking something you weren't?

The only place a system like that is workable without massive abuse is where everyone knows everything about everyone all the time. But at that point such a system wouldn't be necessary because everyone would already know the difference between someone having an unpleasant thought and initiating a harmful action.

The accusation from one man to another that he is sensitive about an issue (as if it is a flaw to feel an issue is of importance). Here is a possible explanation for the question of the OP-
Why don't men speak up against sexism or misogynistic behavior on the part of other men?
Because they don't want to be accused of being a pussy, of being un-manly.



There is a rational argument against the "psychology is meaningless" stance.

A boy who listens to and watches other men make sexist and misogynist assertions,
Who seems to be supported by other men (who he sees as examples, sources of knowledge, people to seek approval from),
Curious about girls, women, and what makes them different from men (besides the physical differences),
Can integrate ideas about females which
(When they begin to feel sexually attracted to females)
Can be the roots of their perception and of their acts towards them.


Ex:
A repeated exposure to comments that "females are stupid animals, just made for being our sexual outlets and only wanting money from men"

The boy then makes his attempts to get close to a girl by offering her money or gifts,
Then does not understand why she did not offer sex in return,
Gets hurt, confused and angry, and forcefully rapes her- since he thinks she is a stupid animal who is actually made for that and has "jilted" him out of what is due to him. He thinks he gave her what she wanted, so she owes him what he wanted.

Ideas are seeds. They spread, they grow, they put actions and events into being. Without moving from your chair, you can have real influence and impact on the other side of the world, without even having to acknowledge any responsibility at all. I suspect it is the lack of acknowledgement of our influence and impact on others and the world that might be the cause of much trouble.

a reply to: Bluesma
Eventually people are going to wake up to the understanding that before they become men, they are boys. And if you grow up in the west as a boy, you are predominately surrounded by women and learn your foundational perspectives from women.

You are also taught that a girl can hit you and tackle you, but if you push her off of you too hard, you are going to get in trouble. And that it means she "likes you". Which is true but incomprehensible to a boy without male guidance.

Is it any wonder, that when a boy is guided mentally and emotionally by women and girls he will have difficulty as he transitions into manhood? Before there was a seed, there was soil... who is tilling that soil and what nutrients are being put in there?

In the west male children are treated like men while being taught to be like girls.

originally posted by: Bluesma
Ex:
A repeated exposure to comments that "females are stupid animals, just made for being our sexual outlets and only wanting money from men"

To put my previous point better... any male who has had adequate exposure to females and guidance from a male will hear something like that and put it in its proper context.

Yes, there *are* women who are stupid and/or just want to offer sex in exchange for material items. This is the origin of the thought, but a man who doesn't have any reason to feel burned or abused by women when they were children will disregard the blanket application of it. However if all they saw growing up *was* women using men and their sexuality to get what they want that is the seed which the later comments will feed.

People don't just take comments like what you said above as true for no reason and especially when their personal experience contradicts it. I didn't because I knew better. People may irrationally apply it in the same way that some women develop an "all men want is sex" mindset when not properly exposed to the varieties of masculinity.

My own experience growing up was being treated by certain girls as if all I wanted was sex despite that often not being on the radar. It's being treated as a sex object in a very different form from what women experience, but I was still "objectified" into my theoretical sexuality and experienced a constant series of negative experiences until I put two and two together to understand how they viewed me.