Evolution a Religion

originally posted by: orangetom1999
a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

Why Jesus rather than Muhammad on sole creationist arguments ?
Should I agree with creationism why should I end up with Jesus rather the other guy ?
And we both know they happen to be related to the same parent company ...

Come on theultimatebelgianjoke,

You are betting here that no one out on this board can think outside the box...but will default to ignorance and just plain not knowing.

There is no such instruction to Christians to spread the Word by the Sword...or burning at the stake.
This means that they do not have the same parent company.

Amazingly ..many Christians do not know this..their ministers keep them so ignorant...and do not discuss it. Thus they take the Salt out of them and replace it with sugar...or Universality.

Once again all you have to do is think outside the box of most of what passes for education today...a television and movie education in emotions.

Orangetom

Why even waste your time answering his question? He's been a member of this website for years, he, who prides himself on his 'intellect', should have recognized this glaring distinction between Yahweh and Allah. He's just playing games with you.

BlackManINC

Why even waste your time answering his question? He's been a member of this website for years, he, who prides himself on his 'intellect', should have recognized this glaring distinction between Yahweh and Allah. He's just playing games with you.

Why...Salt verses sugar. universality is of Ishmael and not of Isaac.

I know the difference in Ishmael and Issac..

Ironically many Christians do not...so too with atheists..so too with intellectuals...enlightened peoples...the Illuminated.

By the way...

These postings are not to the Belgian alone..but to others out here who can see hear and understand. I do not reply specifically with the Belgian in mind..


This should suffice to explain.

But thanks for your post,
Orangetom

a reply to: orangetom1999

I'm just trying to prove a point inside the solely monotheist logic of some.
I think that, unlike other posters, I am more open minded than some on the divine topic.

About the spreading by the sword, Belgians know about the subject.

originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke
a reply to: orangetom1999

I'm just trying to prove a point inside the solely monotheist logic of some.
I think that, unlike other posters, I am more open minded than some on the divine topic.

About the spreading by the sword, Belgians know about the subject.

Yes...indeed theultimatebelgianjoke. I understood that you were universal..ie..open minded and from the beginning. No problem by me.

However ...many here stateside do not know of the spreading by the sword. They are clueless..but know how to do a point spread or whatever nonsense is being peddled to them in the name of Universality..or Ishmael.

Please continue with your point for which you were trying to make.

Thanks,
Orangetom

a reply to: BlackManINC

Yeah I am in a position. I am a Scientist holding higher degrees in both Chemistry and Bioinformatics (Biochemistry, Genetics, computational science and statistics combined). I am also a spiritual being. A Neopagan Druid who was "out" as such in a Christian School (and militant about not being bullied). Thus I know both sides of the argument.

I am qualified.

a reply to: IndependentAgent

Nope unless you are a creationist. You say you are not (or are offended I think you are). IDers and Creationists are different but similar enough for my statement to apply to BOTH.

a reply to: orangetom1999

Ignore the big bang comments (Or start a new thread on them ) they are ancillary to the topic of the thread. That Science is a religion. It would be like bitching about the Westbro Baptist Church then switching to Orthodox Jewish issues. Abrahamic faith tick, same cross. They don't equate to the same thing. So just becasue something is a Science, does not mean they are related. Its a common creationist/IDer trick to bring in something unrelated they feel they are able to get wriggle room on

a reply to: orangetom1999

The first point is made.
Should you try to read between the lines across the numerous pages of this thread, I think you should get an idea of the warning I'm trying to issue across my postings.

You said it's hard to think outside the box.
Indeed. My bet is that the last thing you were expecting when you asked me to show you the sword is a real-life item. And that's the problem for most people. When asking religious questions, people tend to expect religious answers.
How is that thinking outside the box ?

Don't take it personally but, my label for that kind of activity bears the mention 'Theological masturbation'.
However, you should have understood I could be flagged as a gnostic.
I'm still reading stuff, work in progress. The material is almost infinite should anyone consider the entire world and not only religious subject.

When reading the text (whatever one), people want to see what is written.
They do not transpose. People like creationists, end up twisting their own perception of reality to reassure themselves that they picked the right book. They do not even want to hear about the amount of damage they are doing to their beloved scriptures when you try to warn them.

The sword is indeed a material item with no super-ability. So is everything our entire lives.
And so should be the scriptures understood.
The most important thing about holy scriptures, is the set of mostly respectable core-values they carry.
And the fact that their diversity show us that, there is nothing such as an absolute truth.

The only truth we all should be able to accept is the one we can understand.

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: orangetom1999

Ignore the big bang comments (Or start a new thread on them

) they are ancillary to the topic of the thread. That Science is a religion. It would be like bitching about the Westbro Baptist Church then switching to Orthodox Jewish issues. Abrahamic faith tick, same cross. They don't equate to the same thing. So just becasue something is a Science, does not mean they are related. Its a common creationist/IDer trick to bring in something unrelated they feel they are able to get wriggle room on

I don't think the big bang little bang or whatever bang you want to use ...is workable unless someone can start a universe of their own...by banging..bit or little or whatever. Not just stating so and then passing this off as fact. It is not ancillary..it is core to the goings on. Otherwise..all you have is faith...Pistis..from Greek...ie..religion.

In this case ..unless someone can in fact create a universe...it is related...to Faith.



theultimatebelgianjoke,

You said it's hard to think outside the box.
Indeed. My bet is that the last thing you were expecting when you asked me to show you the sword is a real-life item. And that's the problem for most people. When asking religious questions, people tend to expect religious answers.
How is that thinking outside the box ?

Good..glad you gave me an example from history.. a real life item. My thanks for that and that is exactly what I wanted.

My point is that the Christian knowledge is that the Belief is not spread by the sword nor the stake. Anything which spreads the religion in this manner is a counterfeit of this Belief. It must appear to be so but when one examines it closely ..it is not so. There exists no such instruction to spread the Belief in such an manner. To so do is Ishmael...of this world and in this world. Another belief and another religion..hence a counterfeit.

This is however, the case in Islam..that the religion is to be spread by the sword. Many westerners do not understand this..they have bought into the propaganda and public school teaching that all religions are the same religions ..all gods are the same god.

I do not have any use for or respect for the Crusades..as they are spreading by the sword as well. They are also not the product advertised.

At the same time I know Islam is a bunch of hot air for balking about the Crusades...for I know that Islam was on the move and into Europe and finally into France where they were finally stopped by Charles Martel..ie..Charles the Hammer..at Potiers, France...also knowns as Tours today. The Battle of Tours.

This took place at some 732 AD..some 300 years before the first Crusade.

en.wikipedia.org...

Now what was that about the sword??? Or monotheistic religions?? There is much in history which is hidden from most people..not desired that they know..it is easier to control them if they do not know.

There is little difference to me in Islam and the RCC..from a standpoint of history. I can do this in more recent times with the Society of Jesus working with the Communist Sandinistas down in Nicagura..some 20 years ago...a killing field.

By the Sword????

Things are not all they seem to be.

By the sword...What does it tell me when I detect that the weapons brought to the Arab peoples in Libya, in Egypt and other places is not communist revolutionary weapons but NATO weapons...HK G3 and FNLAR rifles??? Who is arming these people...and for what??? By the Sword????

Some who know bits of history would call this scientific revolution..man made and engineered revolution...Just like in the French Revolution.

I think that by the sword is still continuing today...under man made engineering, planning, and investment. Man made beliefs and religion..obviously very devoutly and zealously done.

The sword is still with us.

Oh..by the way..I agree with your definition of "Theological Masterbation." That is exactly what is going on. It is just that most people do not see it for what it is. And you are again correct..it is gnostic in nature..of Ishmael...and the world. The world's system in play.


and this...

The only truth we all should be able to accept is the one we can understand.

You are correct..it is indeed gnostic. Advancing by degrees in the wisdom of this world...man by wisdom becoming a god.
Demigods... By man's own understanging..logic and reason.

Deus Meumque Jus...god is my right..whatever I want is god.

There are some of us who know the difference in Truth an truth...in peace and Peace.

But thanks for your post,
Well spoken as a gnostic,

Orangetom

a reply to: orangetom1999

It's interesting you mentionned the battle of Poitiers, another Belgian in charge ...

He was born in Herstal, a city where that factory is located ...

And when I advised you to read to between the lines, I seriously hoped you would take the necessary amount of time to do it. You still don't get it ? I like to let the images speak...
Now off this thread, we are going off topic

a reply to: orangetom1999

Again the creation of the Universe is not important here, as the OP has stated some things about evolution. Thus we are (by the boards T&C) restricted to talking about that. The OP also really only makes a statement in the title of the thread not the OP, but hey, it is what it is

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: orangetom1999

Again the creation of the Universe is not important here, as the OP has stated some things about evolution. Thus we are (by the boards T&C) restricted to talking about that. The OP also really only makes a statement in the title of the thread not the OP, but hey, it is what it is

Wow!! This is deep. First off..I did not initially bring up the Big Bang or little bang or however many bangs one wants to incorporate.

My point is that in science..unless one can duplicate what one is discussing ...it is at best a paper theory....requiring faith.

To be true..it must occur in nature and be capable of being duplicated. This is the scientific method..and that which I am attempting to make plain ..not the big bang..little bang or whatever or however many bangs you want.

I am referring to the scientific method here. Science.





theultimatebelgianjoke,

Most of the wars of recent times have been counterfeits..not the product advertised...and often one counterfeit struggling against another counterfeit for dominion. This often involving the peoples of various nations..without them having a clue as to what is happening.
And the price in souls and blood is getting higher and higher as time goes by. It is waxing worse and worse.


As to physical Israel today...I have little use for that nation..for like the RCC and others...it is a counterfeit.

The nation called Israel today is a man made construct. It is not the Israel of the Bible nor of the Olde Testament pattern.

It is outside appearances..not the real thing. It has a lot of people conned on both sides of this issue.

I am not pro Arab on this thing..nor pro Israel...I just know the history and much of what passes for history on this business ..or media coverage is a counterfeit...for political purposes. Politics..another devout and zealous religion.
There is nothing holy about that land..nothing.

While It is true that a lot of history took place there..and I find that interesting and telling...there is nothing holy about that place.

What you need to know about the nation, in todays "Wisdom", called Israel and what may be coming is embodied in "The Sampson Option."

en.wikipedia.org...

This is a knowledge and understanding for which our own leadership here stateside..and also our phony media...try to keep us from ever knowing or understanding. The very name Sampson Option ..is foreign to most Americans...at this they are asleep at the wheel. And the zealous and devout religious system of politics is designed for them to be so asleep.

This is what was very close to happening in the Yom Kippur War and totally avoided by most of the media and leadership of the world today. They need us ignorant on this.

While I am glad that someone stopped the Muslims from going into Europe..under Charles Martel...I am not particularly into flag waving or chest thumping. For the history reads that the Muslims only found another way into Europe through Constantinople..some centuries later. And this is the source of the conflicts in Europe when the Soviets and the wall fell.

I believe they, The Muslim leadership, are attempting to do it again...today...under various guises....as a religious calling.

I also believe someone in the west is helping, aiding, and abetting them...by design.

This is Evolution..by man made reason and wisdom...Gnosticism.

For the Gnostics are here still...have always been here and have quietly moved to positions of power..and this is a religion.


Thanks for your post,
Orangetom

I'd like to thank you for your replies.
At first, I was inspired to re-read the part about Isaac/Ishmael ... quite interesting.
Then, I must confess I may have misunderstood the original intent of your observations, you sounded to me pro something, it turned out you weren't.
The whole concept of chosen people, somehow instigate trough dogmatic obedience, the notion of racism across the whole monotheism.
Muslim are, of course, more tempered about the 'divine' status of the Jews.
I find compelling the fact that the caliphate doesn't seems to pay any attention to Israel.

originally posted by: theultimatebelgianjoke
I'd like to thank you for your replies.
At first, I was inspired to re-read the part about Isaac/Ishmael ... quite interesting.
Then, I must confess I may have misunderstood the original intent of your observations, you sounded to me pro something, it turned out you weren't.
The whole concept of chosen people, somehow instigate trough dogmatic obedience, the notion of racism across the whole monotheism.
Muslim are, of course, more tempered about the 'divine' status of the Jews.
I find compelling the fact that the caliphate doesn't seems to pay any attention to Israel.

You are certainly welcome for the replies.

As to Isaac and Ishmael..What is being said in that passage from Galatians 4 is that Ishmael is the Olde Testament after the bondwoman Hagar...and is in bondage with her children. Those under Olde Testament law are in bondage ...

This means the Physical Israel today...and any others who want to be under Olde Testament Law.

Israel of Issac..is of one seed..singular. The Jews like to say they are the seeds of Abraham...who's son is Isaac.

But it says...in the Word...seed...singular..not plural. Only one seed (singular) of any importance was to come out of that line of Isaac. And that seed is free and the mother of us all..the Jerusalem which is above..not the one here physically on this earth.

Very few ministers of which I know ever teach or preach that verse for what it says. This is also how I know that todays physical Jerusalem is a counterfeit and nothing holy about it at all.

By 70 ad...God had finished with the physical nation of Israel and what He had called them to do..preserve His Word..and out of a certain lineage was to come the Messiah.

Counterfeits is something as a sidelight which studying the Word taught me ...how to spot many of them..in religion, in politics, another devout and zealous religion, and even in education...another means of preserving the body politic...and teaching Gnosticism..instead or real Truth. The religion of wise men..wizards. Men of reason and logic.

The other applicable word for this is Occult.

What I am is anti ignorance...or what is it that ATS declares and often...Deny Ignorance??? Or some such slogan. I am all for this.

I am not a brilliant type person..only someone who reads and analyzes what is out here to be seen and known.

In particular I like history when you can find real history. Often you must decode it...depending on the authors.


By the way..for your historical background....about the Yom Kippur War of 1973. No cover charge for this..

I was in the US Air Force and stationed in Keflavik, Iceland at the time this shooting war broke out. The Israelis were getting the short end of this war and very quickly.

Our condition at Keflavik, Iceland was that we were in the middle of a transition from 25 year olde F 102 Delta Dart aircraft to the latest version of the F4E model of the Phantom fighters for air intercept duty. These new aircraft were to be delivered from the assembly lines of McDonald Douglas manufacturing.

We were process of receiving the technical manuals and mock up benches for the electronic portion of this aircraft.

Suddenly overnight ..we were notified to pack everything up..and get it ready to go out on transports to Israel.

All our new aircraft were going to Israel.

In the end we got 10 year olde F4C model Phantoms from some base stateside.

At the time I knew nothing about the Sampson Option. Only later, long after I had gotten out of the Air Force did I finally run across this concept while doing some reading on esoteric topics.

But it was indeed an interesting study as, until then, I had no idea that I and my squadron were a part of the plan to prevent Israel from going nuclear with the Sampson Option.

Then President Nixon ..is today known for the Watergate Political scandal ..not for preventing Nuclear War. Ironic how history works out..particularly if no one knows any history...or very very few.

The average American, even today, is asleep at the wheel on this .

So many Americans are so dumb ..they know more about the latest I phone or I pad or whatever junk is coming down the pipeline..than any real history and how it affects them daily. What is astonishing to me is that these people are voters.

Well I think you get the idea. Deny Ignorance.

I am no one special out here..but once in awhile I can think outside the box and see these people as counterfeits..phony's..not the product advertised.

Enough of that for now,

Gotta make haste,

Thanks again for your posts,

Orangetom

a reply to: orangetom1999

Yeah I know you did not bring the possible ways for the creation of the Universe up. I am just pointing out that the discussion in it here is totally off topic. The Topic is "Evolution is a religion", thus we talk about evolution, and whether it is a religion or not, rather than unrelated scientific theories such as the Big Bang, abiogensis/proteogenisis etc.

Now don't get me wrong its an interesting topic, so I hinted that starting a thread might be a good place to go.

a reply to: orangetom1999

May I invite you to further proceed this very interesting conversation in the other thread I linked you before.
I fear we may be going totally off topic.
The relevance to the original prophecy hasn't be contested, we have room there to continue sharing our, somehow very similar perspectives.

The ultimate fate of the Samson option is frightening for any sensible people, the Dahiya doctrine is hopefully less and less tolerated these days.

I happened to update the thread with two actuality events. May I have your insight ?

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: orangetom1999

Yeah I know you did not bring the possible ways for the creation of the Universe up. I am just pointing out that the discussion in it here is totally off topic. The Topic is "Evolution is a religion", thus we talk about evolution, and whether it is a religion or not, rather than unrelated scientific theories such as the Big Bang, abiogensis/proteogenisis etc.

Now don't get me wrong its an interesting topic, so I hinted that starting a thread might be a good place to go.

Noinden,

"Evolution as a Religion"


One of the prominent facets of Evolutionary theory is big bangs..little bangs..what ever many or size of bangs you want...all banging together to create what we see around us daily.

But the scientific method of which I know....albeit limited...is that you must needs prove something out..by duplicating it...out here in nature..among nature. Not just write papers and declare it settled. Understand now??

If you cannot duplicate it...you are preaching religion...not science and therefore ..a religion/faith.

It is not complex. It need not be censored. It is in fact that simple.


You know...Noinden..right up the road from me about two miles..is the NASA Langley Research Center...there are lots of Moon Rocks to be found in this area. One of them downtown in a museum for everyone to see.

The very interesting thing about this moon rock..is that NASA did not evolve this rock out of nothing. They had to go and get it...and undertake every step in-between to get it home...here for display. It was not evolved...by NASA.

You see!!??

Thanks,
Orangetom

a reply to: theultimatebelgianjoke

May I invite you to further proceed this very interesting conversation in the other thread I linked you before.

I briefly looked at that thread. I am going to bookmark it for quick reference. I've already spotted something about it..concerning 4Yeshua's comments...which is known from the Olde Testament.

I will consider it further and comment on it later.

Thanks,
Orangetom

a reply to: orangetom1999

No evolutionary theory and the big bang are not integral parts of one another. One is a Astrophysics theory and the other is a theory in the biological sciences. They do not affect each other, in that if one were to be proven flawed, the other is unaffected.

Your understanding of scientific method is a little foff. While the sciences of Chemistry and Biochemistry (and to a great extent physics) allow experimentation in the lab, many other sciences do not. Astrophysics clearly can not be repeated in the lab (outside of computer simulations). Scientific method also allows for observations as the source of data. Zoologists obviously use this (you sort of don't bring a blue whale into the lab every other week for an experiment), cosmological Astrophysics is another. You don't "create a big bang" to see how it went. It is impossible. So it brings you back to observation and computer modelling. Evolution is much easier to trace now that we can sequence genomes, I've been involved in some of that in my research career.

So yeah your understanding of how some sciences is off.

a reply to: Noinden

Ok now the way you use "evolved". No the rock was not "evolved from nothing", however we are talking about evolutionary theory of lifeforms. Those rocks are dead. They probably have sod all to do with the evolution of life. You are mixing your theories again I am afraid.