Evolution a Religion

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: IndependentAgent

Neighbour, I simply said creation (and intelligent design may as well be added here) is an untestable idea. YOU assumed I labeled you as such. It must hit very close to home.

So if intelligent design is "untestable", then what is exactly do you call the creation of amino acids, which is information, in the dozens of miller-urey like experiments? Those amino acids didn't form by some random process by themselves, it was because there were scientists, "intelligent designers" doing the informing in the first place. If they can't prove how this information can form by purely naturalistic means without an informer, then by deductive reasoning it leaves intelligent design as the most likely candidate. In the Bible, life didn't form by spontaneous generation from non-living organisms, it formed from the dust or material of the earth because there was an entity named Yahweh doing the informing. So what exactly is YOUR proof against intelligent design?

a reply to: BlackManINC

Once again you really don't understand what is being discussed here. Intelligent design equates to creationism (though usually "aliens" are put in place of "deity").

IDers, and creationists are in the position to make whatever claims they like, knowing full well that their ideas are not able to be tested. As I've said before I am a spiritual person, I understand the place spirituality holds in the human condition (well for many of us), but (as I have also said) I am also a scientist, and I value testable theories. If science can explain something, then I don't need to follow a mythology. Mind you that is really part of my spiritual path of Draíocht in play Seeking knowledge through Imabs.

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: BlackManINC

Once again you really don't understand what is being discussed here. Intelligent design equates to creationism (though usually "aliens" are put in place of "deity").

IDers, and creationists are in the position to make whatever claims they like, knowing full well that their ideas are not able to be tested. As I've said before I am a spiritual person, I understand the place spirituality holds in the human condition (well for many of us), but (as I have also said) I am also a scientist, and I value testable theories. If science can explain something, then I don't need to follow a mythology. Mind you that is really part of my spiritual path of Draíocht in play

Seeking knowledge through Imabs.

And you are in a position to make whatever biased interpretations of the scientific evidence you can make against ID. I asked you for evidence against ID, and you provided nothing, so thanks for the response.

a reply to: BlackManINC

I suggest you look at this video and you will see proved in a court of law that the ID crowd has lied and cheated to attempt to get what they want.

www.youtube.com...

Proof against what they say also...all proved in a court of law.

a reply to: BlackManINC

Its self evident neighbor. A creator, be it a super advanced alien, or a deity, can't be produced. The evidence for the god of Abraham having created the earth in 6 days (then taking a day off) does not exist. The earth is billions of years old. Similarly these "super advanced aliens" are no where to be seen. There is no evidence of their being here. QED ID and creationism can not be proved. However the lack of evidence also can not disprove it. However when you and your ilk demand evidence from us, you are under the same rules. Proof please. Not some tired text, I've got a few others from other spiritual paths I could wave about, but shall not. Not some badly made video on you tube. But something that stacks up.

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: BlackManINC

Its self evident neighbor. A creator, be it a super advanced alien, or a deity, can't be produced. The evidence for the god of Abraham having created the earth in 6 days (then taking a day off) does not exist. The earth is billions of years old. Similarly these "super advanced aliens" are no where to be seen. There is no evidence of their being here. QED ID and creationism can not be proved. However the lack of evidence also can not disprove it. However when you and your ilk demand evidence from us, you are under the same rules. Proof please. Not some tired text, I've got a few others from other spiritual paths I could wave about, but shall not. Not some badly made video on you tube. But something that stacks up.

There are far bigger problems for aliens being the creator than a supernatural being, because if it was aliens, then you also have to produce an answer for who created them as well, which throws the problem for the origin of life deeper into space ad infinitum. So again, by deductive reasoning, I detective BlackManINC, suspect Yahweh as the likely culprit for the origin of life as the evidence of his finger print is in the things that are made, the information that cannot be brought into being by any purely natural process.

A little article about the video I just posted.
Sums it up really.

www.nytimes.com...

originally posted by: boymonkey74
A little article about the video I just posted.
Sums it up really.

www.nytimes.com...

So a court order is the entire basis for your rejection of ID? WOW, well, I can also be falsely accused of murder in a court of law, and you post these links as if a court decision is the infallible word of God himself, good luck with that.

a reply to: boymonkey74

I would like to thank you for those videos. I just finished watching the sixth one and I got to say 4 through 6 lays out some of the finest evidence I have seen for evolutionary theory. I am not sure when ID gets to have their turn in court in the 12 part series but I think it will be funny to watch.

I didn't think I would find those videos interesting but they are. That surprised me.

originally posted by: BlackManINC
I detective BlackManINC, suspect Yahweh as the likely culprit for the origin of life as the evidence of his finger print is in the things that are made, the information that cannot be brought into being by any purely natural process.

May I ask some honest questions? Just looking for honest answers.

Are you certain the "finger prints" you see as evidence of design belong to Yahweh and not any of the numerous other creator Gods or Goddesses from various cultures throughout various times in history?

What evidence do you see that suggests to you it was Yahweh's hand in the creation of all things?

What evidence do you have against it being any of the other deities?

a reply to: BlackManINC

No the evidence for evolution tells me to reject ID for what it is.
Lies.
I bet you don't even watch the video explaining why the court came to the decision.
The ID crowd failed to convince a Judge (a God fearing christian judge) of their claims and were shown to have lied on oath to attempt to get their lies in schools.
Again you are a great ape and to deny this is insulting to god and nature.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer



When you have understood the edges of their paradoxical belief system, it's almost entertaining to spin them any direction you want.

So guys, since I got no reply in the other thread, do you have any thoughts on the creationist scholar Adnan Oktar ?

a reply to: OperationBlackRose

The opening post had potential, but you stifled its progress with your second reply.

I thought you were going to tell us how people put too much weight behind the beliefs of authoritative figures, without employing their critical thinking skills.

"According to Scientists..." is one of the biggest culprits when it comes to this practice of accepting something on face value without thinking critically about it before accepting it as factual.

a reply to: Dark Ghost


I must agree with that. So lets talk about it.

a reply to: Noinden l

You said that the problem "you" have is that
"Creationism" is untestable. So yes, it reads that you are saying I have a problem.

a reply to: rnaa

The only scientific "proof" we have that the universe began, is that it exists, and the Singelarity.

Now we can create lots of theories around that, everyone based on the saam "facts", but why is the Big Bang the prefered one?

a reply to: IndependentAgent
Creationist VS Others :

You both, have no other choice but acknowledge that we all live in the same world where, a Jesuit priest got awarded a Nobel price in physics for some scientifically acceptable theory.

Georges Lemaître

My 2cents that atheist scientist have more chances to be proven wrong about their current consideration of the singularity than the creationist have to ever sound right.

Can't we get away with it ?

Evolution is part of the great mechanism of the universe, it work at all scale, it's all about probability.

Now here Dark Ghost makes a reasonable and intelligent statement.

I thought you were going to tell us how people put too much weight behind the beliefs of authoritative figures, without employing their critical thinking skills.

Be very very careful what passes for intelligence on both sides of this debate.

The reason I don't put much stock in science as a religion or zealous anchor for faith or the way to go is "Democide."

I found out that by reading history that many dictatorial governments believe heavily in science. They are quite devout and zealous about science and what they believe that science can do for them.

By this I mean...the United States...The Communist Chinese...the Russians under both the Soviets and even today.

These are nations and in particular...the Russians/Soviets and Communist Chinese who have killed off millions of their own people while adhering devoutly and zealously to science as the way to go.

My point in this is that science here did nothing for the humanity of these people or their governments.


Democide is death by ones own government.

en.wikipedia.org...




RJ Rummel states here in the Wiki article on "Democide"....

His research shows that the death toll from democide is far greater than the death toll from war. After studying over 8,000 reports of government-caused deaths, Rummel estimates that there have been 262 million victims of democide in the last century. According to his figures, six times as many people have died from the actions of people working for governments than have died in battle.

Notice here that the last 100 years is the time of science..the time of Illuminated, scientific, gnostic, wise men running things by their intellect..by wisdom..by gnosis...knowledge.

Yet here also ...more people have been killed in that time period and by their own governments...than have been killed in battle. No matter how you want to slice and dice it...262 million is a lot of people in 100 years and it continues into the 21st century.

What is the devout and zealous religion of science doing about this??? Or are they struggling for funds from the highest bidder...ie..governments???

I am not against science per se...I just know it is not a good belief system to be following as the solution to the worlds problems. While science has put us in better cars..homes, foods, clothes etc etc...it has not made us better or more aware and moral people. It has made us better consumers.

And when I detect that governments have their noses deep up the backside of science and vice versa...I look at both with a very critical eye.

I do not detect evolution happening here once I have this bit of knowledge about democide. Neither in government or in science...neither seems to be evolving here.

Are all scientists like this..no I do not believe so. I believe there are scientists and researchers who are highly ethical and moral... But they are not the ones running things.

These are not the scientists who are bartering, selling, and trading the souls of people in government as science is promoted as the zealous religion and solution to the worlds problems.

When YOu have science and government in bed together and "Democide " takes place so regularly ..>I ask myself what religion is this? It is not different than the religion which so many try to place the blame game while using time warp reasoning to stick things back into the "Inquisition " and further. All it did was change it's face...here in todays "Wise men times..times of educated Illuminated men running things...while crawling into bed with science. You don't have to go back in a "time warp " to see the blame game ..it is happening right here in the last 100 years..and it is not the product advertised..just like politics.

And who pays for our public educations...Politicians. Think about it and what is missing from our thinking...our gnosis.

No evolution happening here under Democide People.

Thanks,
Orangetom

a reply to: orangetom1999

Now this is a good post. Good job!

a reply to: orangetom1999

Notice here that the last 100 years is the time of science..the time of Illuminated, scientific, gnostic, wise men running things by their intellect..by wisdom..by gnosis...knowledge.

Can you name some of the scientists that are running things. Ben Franklin was the last scientists that I can remember running things here maybe it is different in other countries but here in the US we have a bunch of politicians that have backgrounds in law not science which have been running things. The House, Senate, and presidency has been Predominantly run by those not involved in science.

So no you are incorrect because the last 100 years have not been run by men of science. Not even close. I believe things would be a lot better if they had been though. BTW we do have a lot of men of faith running the country they are not doing a very good job IMO. We need more people with backgrounds in science in positions of power not less.