Here Is Why Vikings Are Going Straight to Hell !... If There Is One.

originally posted by: Spider879

Note these people rate highest in the happiness index in the world, these descendants of intolerant blood soaked warriors are now the epitome of tolerance ...who saw that coming 1000 yrs back the monastery at Lindisfarne would still be appalled by these new Vikings should they showed-up on their beaches armed with their live and let live attitude,matter of fact the only downer in these countries are fundies of Islamic faith who are determine to be a pain in the azz, look at how religious we are comparison and how miserable we still seemed to be.

Actually, while the Vikings were raiders and exceptional battlefield exponents, they were very civilised and had a big hand in creating the widespread trade and commerce of early Europe and beyond. They were skilled navigators and had developed metallurgy to a level unknown in the dark ages. They were adept diplomats as much as they were feared warriors. Indeed, if anything they brought a level of civility to the places where they built coastal towns to trade, it usually was the locals who had more savage leanings. The thing is, during the period when the Vikings' thrived, the world was an extremely violent and dangerous place.

The Vikings didn't care much for Christianity, and I guess their descendants are not much different, and rightly so.

Sköll

What I have come to known is people make up anything about atheism and religioin on the internet and it is nothing but your own opinion.Christians go and confront atheist and people pretend like it is evil when in fact a christian wants them to be in heaven not hell.

a reply to: Jobeycool

But they don't believe in heaven, so that "confrontation" is nothing but an annoyance. It would be like someone walking up to you saying believe in Zeus so he'll bless you otherwise he'll zap you with lightning. If you had to keep hearing that over and over again when you don't believe in Zeus, it would be an annoyance, you would probably see it as disrespect to your beliefs, and you'll probably see them as the bad guy.

originally posted by: ketsuko
I love how not giving everyone what they want in your religion is automatically hatred.

I don't hate gays either, but when God says marriage is between a man and woman and Jesus comes along and doubles down on that teaching ... in the middle of the Roman Empire no less! It seems pretty clear to me what God intends where marriage is concerned. The Bible never says marriage is only between a man and a woman. You can't find a single passage that makes that claim because it doesn't exist. That claim stems from the story in Genesis about Adam and Eve. Research the book you claim to know so much about.

It also seems pretty clear to me that God intends sex to take place within the bounds of marriage Also not found in The Bible. There are passages with men saying that sex should only be between two people who love each other but "no sex before marriage" is not an order directly from the big man. Again, instead of listening to your peers and pastor, you should understand the actual book before you become a proponent for what it says. Simple fact is, the whole principle of abstaining came from 3 outdated factors: lack of contraception leading to accidental pregnancy (which ironically still occurs because so many religious folks think birth-control leads to sexual promiscuity), lack of treatment or prevention for STD's which allowed them to run rampant, AND the fact that the old men writing the rules preferred to marry virgins so their sexual confidence wouldn't be threatened.

If we take the nature fallacy to its extreme, we should allow cannibalism, too. After all, its a pretty natural instinct. What? No it's not.

And no, sex in and of itself isn't necessarily bad, but all the things that come of it can really screw up your life and the lives of those around you. Think about it. I have no idea what you're talking about. That's a pretty ignorant statement.

originally posted by: Jobeycool
What I have come to known is people make up anything about atheism and religioin on the internet and it is nothing but your own opinion.Christians go and confront atheist and people pretend like it is evil when in fact a christian wants them to be in heaven not hell.

Come on, now. There are very few Christians who confront atheists because of some compassionate desire for them to be saved and reach heaven.

Both sides do it when they dislike the message and feel threatened.

a reply to: nukedog

or do you mean colour?

Nasty? I'll give you nasty. I buried my best and childhood friend today. Leaving behind his children and widowed wife. So sorry if I am a bit rude, it's been a bad day. When people say my ancestors were sacrificing humans as part of their religion, well it's plain wrong, and it lights my fire. You're barking up the wrong tree. At least today.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim


so instead of honoring his memory and your friendship together you come on to ATS to be rude to other people?

originally posted by: swanne
a reply to: Spider879

Was this pastor living under a rock??

I have a Christian friend who is also gay; and I am friend with a preacher who is also in mathematics, and preaches that no one is truly "hated" by God, since He did create all souls.

Seems to me like a pastor never even read about Reconciliation.

The Christian faith Prohibits Homosexuality, how the hell do you know a Gay Christian?

originally posted by: ketsuko
I love how not giving everyone what they want in your religion is automatically hatred.

I don't hate gays either, but when God says marriage is between a man and woman and Jesus comes along and doubles down on that teaching ... in the middle of the Roman Empire no less! It seems pretty clear to me what God intends where marriage is concerned.

It also seems pretty clear to me that God intends sex to take place within the bounds of marriage, maybe because sex is something that is used as a wedge to open the door to all kinds of problems in your life. I mean, the reasoning goes, how can something that feels so good be bad, especially when you find it everywhere in nature. There is a fallacy there. Not everything we find in nature is good to do or morally good for humans who are supposed to be on a higher plane of reasoning than animals who only operate on their instinct.


If we take the nature fallacy to its extreme, we should allow cannibalism, too. After all, its a pretty natural instinct.

And no, sex in and of itself isn't necessarily bad, but all the things that come of it can really screw up your life and the lives of those around you. Think about it.[/quote

Sex is in our nature. There are plenty of Polyamorous tribal societies that get on much better than ours. And last but not least, my wife and I looove to have sex and have a lot of sex but I have never ever once seriously thought about canabalism . So I'm going to go ahead and call BS on your assumption that eating other people is human nature.

a reply to: ketsuko

I don't hate gays either, but when God says marriage is between a man and woman and Jesus comes along and doubles down on that teaching ... in the middle of the Roman Empire no less! It seems pretty clear to me what God intends where marriage is concerned.

Well you don't openly hate gays. "God" says A LOT of stuff in the bible that people ignore

11 God no nos

But since so many people like these, all of a sudden it's either OK, God's speaking "metaphorically" or some other nonsense reasoning

a reply to: Utnapisjtim
sorry OP not trying to dereail the thread just had to reply to this.

When people say my ancestors were sacrificing humans as part of their religion, well it's plain wrong, and it lights my fire. You're barking up the wrong tree.

i believe your wrong, my mothers grandmother comes from Denmark, others say Norway. i've looked into our Scandinavians heritage and have read quite a bit on the vikings trying to find out if maybe some of our ancestors were vikings.

there are several sources from the time frame that say yes they did. the best known is Ahmad ibn Fadlan who was a member of the embassy of Abbasid Caliph of Baghdad to the king of the Volga Bulgars. he wrote wrote a eye witness account of just such a thing.
just a side note there was a movie that was very losely based on him staring Antonio Banderas called The 13th Warrior. not a real great movie but wasn't all that bad.
any way here is a paper writen on his account of a funnerl for a chiefatn , warning the link opens a pdf for those that don't like that. his account starts on page 12 and goes to page 20. here are a couple of quotes.

I was told that when their chieftains die, the least they do is to cremate them.39 I was very keen to verify this, when I learned of the death of one of their great men. They placed him in his grave (qabr) and erected a canopy40
over it for ten days, until they had finished making and sewing his .41

In the case of a poor man42 they build a small boat, place him inside and burn it. In the case of a rich man, they gather together his possessions and divide them into three, one third for his family, one third to use for garments,43 and one third with which they purchase44 alcohol which they drink on the day when his slave-girl kills herself45 and is cremated together with her master.46 (They are addicted to alcohol, which they drink night and day. Sometimes one of them dies with the cup still in his hand.)47

When their chieftain dies, his family ask his slave-girls and slave-boys, “Who among you will die with him?” and some of them reply, “I shall.” Having said this, it becomes incumbent upon the person and it is impossible ever to turn back. Should that person try to, he is not permitted to do so. It is usually slave-girls who make this offer. When that man whom I mentioned earlier died, they said to his slave-girls, “Who will die with him?” and one of them said, “I shall.”

Then they produced a couch and placed it on the ship, covering it with quilts Byzantine silk brocade and cushions Byzantine silk brocade. Then a crone arrived whom they called the “Angel of Death” and she spread on the couch the coverings we have mentioned. She is responsible for having his sewn up and putting him in order52 and it is she who kills the slave-girls. I myself saw her: a gloomy, corpulent woman, neither young nor old.53

Meanwhile, the slave-girl who wished to be killed was coming and going, entering one pavilion after another. The owner of the pavilion would have intercourse with her and say to her, “Tell your master that I have done this purely out of love for you.” At the time of the evening prayer on Friday they brought the slave-girl to a thing that they had constructed, like a door-frame. She placed her feet on the hands of the men and was raised above that door-frame. She said something and they brought her down. Then they lifted her up a second time and she did what she had done the first time. They brought her down and then lifted her up a third time and she did what she had done on the first two occasions. They next handed her a hen. She cut off its head and threw it away. They took the hen and threw it on board the ship.60

all from this paper, IBN FADL£AN AND THE R£USIYYAH

he also alludes to Norse Warriors being sacrificed with the Kings.

He (Ibn Fa−dl¢an) said: One of the customs of the King of the R¢us is that in his palace he keeps company with four hundred of his bravest and most trusted companions; they die when he dies and they offer their lives to protect him.70 Each of them has a slave-girl who waits on him, washes his head and prepares his food and drink, and another with whom he has coitus. These four hundred sit below his throne, which is huge and is studded with precious stones. On his throne there sit forty slavegirls who belong to his bed. Sometimes he has coitus with one of them in the presence of those companions whom we have mentioned. He does not come down from his throne. When he wants to satisfy an urge, he satisfies it in a salver.

now don't say these aren't vikings most all scholars agree that they are and here is a map that shows there territory that they traveled, traded, fought and some settled in. it is also well known that they traveled down rivers and were even thought to visited Persia.

map comes from here,The Viking Ulfberht Sword and Persian Steel

there is also this one i've seen it referenced several times, although i've not been able to find a copy of the the book online, or in a local library, (and i don't want to buy a copy) it's cited in or the original work. this quote comes from the Wiki.

According to Adémar de Chabannes, just before his death in 932 or 933 Rollo (founder and first ruler of the Viking principality of Normandy) practised human sacrifices to appease the pagan gods, and at the same time made gifts to the churches in Normandy.[40] François Neveux, A brief history of the Normans: the conquests that changed the face of Europe, Robinson, 2008
Human Sacrifice

as far as i'm concerned they indeed practice Human Sacrifice and had it down to a tee.

I am an atheist. Yet, I wear Thunor's hammer every day much as the people who were either my ancestors or were those who I would wish to be my ancient kin did to protest the scourge that is the Christian cult and proclaim the courage of their heart.

I would say this short clip captures that heart more closely than anything I have ever seen or read:

originally posted by: nukedog
a reply to: swanne

I only jumped in this thread because the op fell into the old swede then vs swede now trope by calling Vikings intolerant.

I was working from memory of something I read a few yrs back.
Ancient Britain Had Apartheid-Like Society,
Study Suggests

When Anglo-Saxons first arrived in Britain 1,600 years ago, they created an apartheid-like society that oppressed the native Britons and wiped out almost all of the British gene pool, according to a new study.

By treating Britons like slaves and imposing strict rules, the small band of Anglo-Saxons—who had come from what is now Germany, Denmark, and the Netherlands—quickly dominated the country, leaving a legacy of Germanic genes and the English language, both of which still dominate Britain today.

British Have Changed Little Since Ice Age, Gene Study Says (July 19, 2005)
Stone Age Britons Often Died From Brutal Blows, Skull Survey Says (May 18, 2006)
The new theory helps explain historical, archaeological, and genetic evidence that until now had seemed contradictory, including the high number of Germanic genes found in modern-day England.

"An apartheid-like social structure could explain the big genetic and language replacements that we see," said Mark Thomas, a genetic anthropologist at University College London, who lead the study.

news.nationalgeographic.com...
The use of the term Apartheid triggered images of old South Africa.

originally posted by: antar
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Animal sacrifice was a practice. Human was as well.

Discovery[edit]
On 6 May 1950, Viggo and Emil Højgaard from the small village of Tollund were cutting peat in the Bjældskovdal peat bog, 12 kilometres (7.5 mi) west of Silkeborg, Denmark.[3] As they worked, one of their wives, who was helping to load the peat on a carriage, noticed a corpse in the peat layer. It appeared so fresh that the workers believed they had discovered a recent murder victim. After much deliberation, the woman notified the police in Silkeborg.[2] The find was reported to the police on Tuesday 8 May 1950. They were baffled by the condition of the body and, in an attempt to identify the time of death, they brought in archaeology professor P. V. Glob.[3][5] Upon initial examination, Glob suggested that the body was over 2,000 years old and most likely the victim of a ritual sacrifice.[2][3]

en.wikipedia.org...

K ill add some here for ya , as your trying to make a Point ,..




IBN FADLAN AND THE RUSIYYAH
www.library.cornell.edu...

See Page 12, 13 paragraph (41) , 14

Tho Around the time of the Viking's in what we now know as South America
Human Sacrifice Rituals was everywhere, The Scotti's with their wicker Man (Harvest) Sacrificing livestock Animals according to the Romans tho Humans is Debatable , and North America Did a kind of Humans Sacrifice from a Tribe Member that did A Horrendous Crime, without Actually killing, a self Execution, Abandonment, another Word, Banishing.. from the Tribe. Or Ghosting with the Tribe. and Probably Self Sacrifice during the time of the in Japan for Dishonor of The Clan and Family. all in the 1st Century and even Now In the Middle east Islamic Mercy Killing which Still Continues..

but from what I read the Detail of the TV Series Vikings is More Likely came from IBN FADLAN's Writings

a reply to: Gryphon66

The book is better.

Eaters of the Dead.

Check it out.

My grandmother moved to the USA from Iceland so I'm 1/4 Icelandic and have a lot of family there. Leif Erikson brought Christianity to the Vikings 1,000 years ago. He converted to Christianity after sailing to Norway and meeting King Olaf. Then was given the mission of introducing the religion to Greenland, but on his way he got lost and ended up in Vinland. He is generally believed to be the first European to discover America, four centuries before Columbus.

Though his father rejected the Christian faith, Leif was able to convert his mother, Thjodhild, who had Greenland’s first Christian church built at Brattahild.

a reply to: Wolfenz

The most peaceful people on the planet did ritual sacrifice, sending virgins into volcanoes came to mind .

originally posted by: antar
a reply to: Wolfenz

The most peaceful people on the planet did ritual sacrifice, sending virgins into volcanoes came to mind .

Most religions demand some sorta sacrifice and especially in ancient times but not completely gone in modern times is the sacrifice of humans the highest gift one can give back to the creator,even in our secular wars it is played out the Brits use to have this saying before going off to battle FOR GOD KING AND COUNTRY In the good ol US of A we talk about sacrifice of our young when sending them off to war sometimes with these lyrics at a church service Onward, Christian Soldiers,
Marching as to war,
With the Cross of Jesus,
Going on before
In East Africa Albino kids are often kidnapped and sacrificed to bring good fortune , In some remote villages in South America children are often kidnapped and sacrificed for a new building,India in some remote villages girls are kidnapped and sacrificed for making good harvest .
O.T and N.T made reference of sacrifice to God Abraham was told by god himself to sacrifice his son as a burnt offering and not to tell his wife off-course God have an evil sense of humor and told him he was just kidding, wanted to see if he would really kill his own son just on his say so as a sign of ultimate trust, he then provided a sheep for Abraham to kill, burnt and give back to him..why does that make any sense is beyond me...God be like that sometimes,however thousands of yrs later God did sacrifice his own son in the most brutal fashion he let the Romans did that job which meant it was going to be long and ugly.
Folks can sneer at Agamemnon all they want for sacrificing his daughter for a fair wind so he can butcher the Trojans over some runaway trollop. I think he would have said DON'T JUDGE ME!

'Hel' is a Nordic creation. It was subsumed into Christian mythos in the middle ages, but it was Dante who gave it the 'ol fire and brimstone trademarks. There is no "hell" in the Old Testament, the closest it comes to our modern concept of "hell" is sheol, the Hebrew equivalent for the Sumerian/Akkadian Irkalla or netherworld, where everyone (good and bad) wound up.

The Hebrew bible went through a Greek filter before being translated into English, and the Greeks flavored it with Hades and Tartaros, two additional concepts of an underworld/netherworld, Tartaros is where those who offended the gods wound up, to be tormented for eternity - like Sisyphus, Tantalus, etc.

The Latin version of the Greek Hades is Infernus. I believe it the 6th C. writer Nicodemus in the Gospel of Nicodemus the solidified the eternal burning damnation of Infernus as the first version of what we would recognize as Hell. Nicodemus' wrote that Christ passed through Hell after his crucifixion but before his resurrection, finding Adam and other righteous souls, taking them with him to Heaven.

"Hell" is one of the Bible's weak points, as it illustrates how the modern bible had been adapted and modified by Greeks, Romans, and early medieval Europeans. Jews have stuck to the OT only, so don't believe in a place of eternal damnation as a punishment. There closest concept of "hell" is Hinnom or Gehinnom, named allegedly after a king who burnt his children as a profane offering. Gehinnom has since come to mean a sort of purgatory, where souls are cleansed.

Before this guy starts preaching about Hell, he should figure out what is canon and what is just later additions, or if it is all a load of hooey.

I actually got bored at work a year or two ago and tried to figure out where human sacrifice came from using my iphone. One thing became apparent; it is fairly universal in our history. I still love Confucius's quote concerning the matter. I am severely paraphrasing here but bear with me:

"Let the groves of old stay where they are. In our ancestors past."

I know I butchered it. It's surprisingly hard to google. This is probably worthy of it's own thread sorry for thread jacking.