Questions about the ET/UFO thing

originally posted by: Pitou
...why do eyewitness accounts vary so wildly?

2 words: shape shifting...

After connecting a few dots, it becomes very obvious that these entities are NOT what they are pretending to be.

John Keel, one of the most respected researchers in this field, noted that “over and over again, witnesses have told me in hushed tones, ‘you know, I don’t think that thing I saw was mechanical at all. I got the distinct impression it was alive.’” thestrongdelusion.com...

The UFO phenomena are manifestations of living beings that are here to deceive mankind. They appear in their UFO form because they wish to change our perception of reality. That they are alive rather than mechanical is not our only conclusion.

thestrongdelusion.com...

“Alien abduction” experiences have been occurring for centuries; the only difference is that those who experienced them in the past usually recognized them as being something evil from a demonic force. It is only in modern times that large numbers of people in Christian countries have began to refer to the atypical “alien abduction” as something that is not demonic. "

Twelve similarities between Demonic Encounters and “Alien Encounters

• Abduction
• Periods Of Unconsciousness
• Appearing In The Form Of Humans
• Communicating Mentally
• Levitation
• Going Into Trances
• Endowing With Special Powers
• Becoming A Channel Or Mouth-Piece For The Entity
• Physical Suffering
• Raping/Sexually Molesting
• Accompanied By The Smell Of Sulfur
• Appearing At Night In Their Bedroom

"I think that the experiences are so similar that one
can conclude that they are in reality one and the same."

Similarities Between UFO Encounters And Demonic Encounters

The thousands of contacts with the entities indicate that they are liars and put-on artists. ~ John Keel

They are inveterate liars and deceivers, and delight in bamboozling and misleading mankind with all manner of nonsense. ~ Gordon Creighton

“They are messengers of deception” ~ Jacques Vallee

originally posted by: The GUT
...the hypothesis that best fits the UFO phenomenon is, imo, that those little stinking, lying buggers ARE demons.

This video BTW is what completely convinced me of this:

originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
I believe that convincing oneself that humans are the only possible lifeform in all of existence is the height of arrogance. Really, it's all just a matter of what you choose to believe. When one is exposed to certain truths in person one finds it difficult to dismiss the existence of such entities and until irrefutable evidence is presented to one directly one will likely continue to dismiss the existence of NHEBEs (non-human extraterrestrial biological entities).

I agree with you that it'd be downright silly to assume our planet is the only inhabited one. And I don't even find the idea of extraterrestrial visitors too bizarre. However, the 'form' that 'ETs' take in the theories/beliefs regarding their presence here (which is a separate thing from their mere existence, but I deem it possible) is not very credible to me personally at this point.

originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Pitou

Only read the first phrase and came to the conclusion: you're an idiot.

Dude, you don't need to call him an idiot because he disagrees with you. Let's not let ATS become like that other website where trolls are fed daily... Remember: Attack the BALL not the player.

And it's a she even!

It occurred to me how ATS seems to have pretty civil discussions except for some snide remarks here and there.

originally posted by: Rainbowresidue
a reply to: Pitou

Perhaps , because there are many different species.

I had an OBE once, where I found myself having an OBE and was on a spaceship which was invisible to earth, yet we were there looking down on earth, and the beings told me how there was too much war on the planet, and that I as a sensitive surely have noticed, and that they are not here to interfere but observe.
And they even told me how they had the technology to remain unseen to us.
They also told me how they've been talking to many people who will listen about how we are becoming more and more aggressive, and also at the same time destroying our planet.

There were 3 different looking aliens in my OBE experience: the typical greys, which seemed to be operating the craft, then fair skinned beings and darker skinned beings , the fair skinned ones were talking to me.

I've had OBE's since early childhood, and even out into space, but it was the first time I found myself in a spaceship.

They told me they weren't here to intervene, only observe, and only, I repeat only intervene if something severe happened.

They also considered us very intelligent beings, and most of us very spiritual, but said that a lot of humans still had a long way to go.
Then they showed me what could happen if WWIII ever broke out, and I saw the nuclear explosion from space. It scared me so much I zapped right back into my body.

That was the only OBE I ever had with them.

I've had various visions, and my family has generations of seers, but this still shocked me to my core.
I never wish to see them again. Not because they were scary, they weren't, but what they showed to me was.

But I'm just another witness with no proof.
Just sharing my 2 cents.
I've never met any other aliens, only those on the spaceship, and it was only that one time, but it was enough to make me believe.

I guess it's one of those things that you simply have to experience to believe it.

I think it's courageous that you share your experience. (if) It holds value to you... whether I'd believe it actually happened or not, people can be very nasty about such things. What would something severe be? A man-made disaster?

They also told me how they've been talking to many people who will listen about how we are becoming more and more aggressive, and also at the same time destroying our planet.

We can do a lot more damage these days. Before we'd kill someone exactly like us but just born in another country with a sword or a spear, now it's bombs and whatnot. We shouldn't have these things, just like you wouldn't give a real gun to a toddler.

a reply to: Murgatroid

Interesting! The video's up the queue.

a reply to: Pitou

There really is no standing definition of what an E.T looks like at all, some believe E.t would be far different from us, while other speculate they'd be similar to us. Why eye witness accounts vary...Not really a hard question.

Lets say, I see a Lamborghini with a certain colour, a dark blue colour is what my eyes see in the broad daylight for example. I call up my next buddy who's a few minutes behind telling him to keep an eye out for this Lambo while he probably sees a different colour with his vision, like black for example. Now why did he see black, when I saw dark blue? Was it me or him? I mean he did see the Lambo, among many other cars, but why did he see a different colour?

Second, the volcano theory is a little off, usually it meant Jesus got a little mad, or the volcano didn't have its blood sacrifices for the day.

As far the public concerned, there is no such thing as E.t ufos or Aliens for that matter.

Religions...It could ether be very fun or funny, or rather stupid as history has shown. As far as the gods concerned, the volcano seems pretty calm.

IDK either rollly lol

a reply to: Pitou

So in a better mood I'd like to ask: don't you think it is a possibility there are more than just one "alien" race? Maybe that's why the descriptions and vessels vary so much?
Also, don't you agree, it could be an explanation for the very slow progressing disclosure, that most people are stuck in believes of demons and witches, so they make baby steps in saying "hi, we are many, you're not alone, we're not all nice, but some of us are fans of you crazy smart little monkeys..." just an idea. And sorry for being so rude but your OP came across very narrow minded and arrogant.

originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
I believe that convincing oneself that humans are the only possible lifeform in all of existence is the height of arrogance.

This statement is as insightful as it is original.




I just had an idea for a drinking game...

a reply to: Peeple

That's a shame, I worded it badly then. Apologies for that I'm actually open to the subject, however many things seemed somewhat ''off''. And as to how and what they may be if they're there... well, I suppose we have to wait and form our own opinions. Apparently several high-ranking and known to the public people have spoken out about this subject implicating that there actually is alien life in our vicinity. (wasn't it Medvedev and Canada's former minister of Defence?)

There is a broad variety of descriptions of craft, but when you boil the descriptions down, it really amounts to a manageable variety with a lot of separate observations that do describe the same type of ships. It's likely we are being visited by multiple species and it makes sense that each species would have developed there own designs and technologies.

Also, consider all the varieties of aircraft and automotive designs humans have produced over the past 90+ years. Our designs are always evolving, for reasons of engineering and aesthetics. I'm not suggesting that there are yearly model line refreshes on alien spacecraft designs, but consider that many of the species may have been traveling the cosmos for centuries, or millennia, or longer. It makes sense that there would be variety of designs with in each species, even if they have evolved past a consumer "style driven" economy.

We aren't even close to interstellar travel, but we've only been flying for less than a century. Consider how much our technology has evolved in just one century. Then consider that other species could be thousands or millions of years more advanced than us. Skeptics might say, "but we are still all bound by the same physics". Well, our science and understanding of physics are likely still extremely primitive, but even with our primitive science, there are already theoretical methods for interstellar travel that don't break our understanding of the laws of physics. These methods may be entirely impossible for us to achieve with our technology, but they may very well be possible in the future, as we continue to make further advances in science and technology we can't even imagine today.

There are innumerable habitable planets in our galaxy. We don't have the data to calculate how many of them actually host life and how many of those planets eventually evolve intelligent life, but given the massive numbers of stars/planets and time scales we can't really imagine, it's a certainty that there are many intelligent species in our galaxy.

A recent paper calculated that even with sub-light speed travel, a sufficiently advanced species could send probes to every star system in the galaxy in a little over 100,000 years. It's not hard to understand that advanced civilizations, even with out Faster Than Light Equivalent tech could colonize many, many worlds over the course of hundreds, thousands or millions of years.

We are a short lived species that have trouble planning our communal endeavors even a decade in advance. It hard for us to imagine planet wide efforts and priorities that might not bear fruit for centuries, but that doesn't mean other Galactic Species are as short sighted.

It makes sense that there would be thousands or millions of space faring species in our galaxy, working on time scales of centuries, rather than years. Even with sub-light tech, it makes sense that many would have already reached our system. If theoretical modes of travel are available to them allow them to transverse great distances faster than light, the odds that we are being routinely visited by many species greatly increases.

We, as a species, are used to self centered thinking on a very short time scale. We have yet to have a formal "first contact" event that would allow us to come to grips, as a species, with the fact that we are not alone. The likelihood that there could be as many different species in out galaxy as there are people in a nation on Earth is overwhelming to us. We can't even live in peace, harmony and trust with the other people on our own planet, how can we even begin to come to terms with having to relate with hundreds, thousands or millions of other species? In a society where we continually sacrifice the future of our kids, grand kids and further generations to satisfy trivial concerns today, how can we comprehend species that take on endeavors that span hundreds, thousands or millions of years?

That the potential realities of our place in the galaxy are overwhelming for us to consider, or that the shortcomings of our species and our society make us insignificant and impotent in comparison to our likely Galactic Neighbors doesn't make those realities any less likely.

I think it's our discomfort at the idea of our pettiness and insignificance that makes us so resistant to the likelihood that our planet is being visited by many species. We have a lot of self delusions as a species that would collapse with a formal, public "first contact" and further confirmation that our species is not only not unique in the universe; but, that we are near the bottom of the technological, social and spiritual evolutionary scale of self aware, tool using species in the galaxy.

Being a species that has trouble finding empathy or respect to people or life forms we deem as being "lesser", the idea that we are near the bottom of some galactic pecking order of intelligent species makes the concept extremely unnerving for many. If your world view is "fear based", fear of an entire galaxy of "others" may be sanity crushing.

Denial is an understandable coping strategy for concepts that might be so unnerving for many. However, I think those of us who have, over time, come to accept these realities will be much more prepared to cope when the reality of our place in the galaxy becomes undeniable.

It is definitely very uncomfortable and overwhelming to even consider that we are being visited by many species, but the level of discomfort has nothing to do with what may be real beyond our current perception.

originally posted by: Pitou

First, why do eyewitness accounts vary so wildly?

If you dropped 1000 nonhumans off at different locations on the planet for 5 minutes each and then ask them to describe what they saw how do you think that would go? Would they all describe vehicles that look the same? Would they all describe humans that look the same? Would some humans seem friendly? Hostile? Cold? Indifferent?

Personally I would find the eyewitness accounts more unreliable if they all fit neatly into some specific pattern because that's not the way anything we know of is or how intelligent beings would perceive things. We see things differently because they're different...and because we interpret them through our own eyes and minds.

The differences the op describes are the superficial exteriors. I find it more interesting that you have all of those allegedly different types, but they all do basically the same things.

They're telepathic.
There's something mysterious/foreboding about the eyes.
Usually, their eyes are large and black (except for the Hitler dream Nordics).
None of them give a straight answer about anything.
Rarely do they use their mouths.
Bipedal; we can understand them as human-like.
They all seem to speak our language(s) and know us better than we know ourselves and yet we constantly hear stories of how they don't get our emotions.
They tend to do things that make more sense as metaphors than as a literal, rational behavior (by our standards.)
They've all been associated with antiquated surgical techniques even by our standards.

And UFOs are the same way. It doesn't matter if they're triangles, cigars, domes, balls of light, they:

Often feel organic or alive.
Often respond to the thought of the observer.
Often perform maneuvers we say we don't have the technology for.
Often wink out.
Often move in a falling leaf motion.
Sometimes have beams.
Sometimes suck up water.
Are often associated with power lines.
Can move slowly or zip away.
Shoot straight up.

So tell me why all of these different types of beings and different shaped craft all basically behave as one intelligence? And one that we can comprehend to boot.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: AgentShillington

Yeah I made alien contact, what did you do? I don't care it's maths you know, no opinion, but kind of proof, so....

So is that why you cant read past one sentence?

Seriously, it seems alien abduction from my time at ATS creates immaturity in those abducted and a lack of respect for anything other then their experience.

I am just pissed at human ignorance and arrogance that's all...

Hmm but fail to recognize your own or have you and you are upset at yourself?

And sorry for being so rude but your OP came across very narrow minded and arrogant.

Hey its great you can apologize and all but how was what OP wrote arrogant?


here is the last paragraph as I still think you didn't read the OP

I'm actually asking what the people on ATS think. I'm not debating here as I don't even really have a standpoint; I'm inconclusive and don't believe I could or want to win or even argue such a discussion. As of yet I'm open to the whole idea but I was wondering what your take on it is. I also must admit that I'm starting to read about the whole thing again after some years even though I read quite extensive amounts at the time. Now that I'm catching up a bit again it occurs how anecdotal it all is.

that is from the Opening post, the last paragraph.


Why is asking ATS opinion because they are open ideas and not really wanting debate arrogant in your eyes?

Is that why you come here, to argue?

Are you maybe not convinced of your own experience, so you come here to argue opinions?

This talk of 'it makes sense' and 'people are arrogant', don't you guys realize this is 'argument by intimidation'?

Let me be VERY specific (in my arrogance).

Within the sphere of 25ly (diameter of 25 light years), or the nearest 100 stars, it is very, very, very unlikely that any exact photocopies of the Earth-Moon-Sun-Jupiter solar system type. Large moon, large gaseous planet outside the habitable range with a perfectly circular orbit, sun (star) not too big, too small, too young, too old; large moon allowing creation of tidal pools, and a planet that is Earth like in the important details.

Favorable land-water ratio, deep ocean currents, active geo-thermal plates (plate tectonics), magnetosphere, 23deg tilt (moderating the rotation and the weather), very occasional mass extinction events, a BIG extinction event that allowed heavy minerals to move near enough to the surface to be mined, a metal core (probably; it allows the magnetosphere, which shields from cosmic and solar radiation).

NOW, it is true that a 'fringe planet' might allow extremophiles to exist (hardy bacteria), but HIGHER life is what we're after.

What is 'higher life' that we know of? Big-brained creatures that use a lot of calories.

It is true that a 'hive-mind' could also simulate intelligence, but...could we adaptively communicate constructively with them?

So this talk of 'it's arrogant to believe' that in the entire Multi-Verse (or slightly smaller scope, 'our Universe') that there is not one other 'sentient race', is TOO BROAD.

Implicit in every 'modestly skeptical' investigator's approach into the gist of the ET-Hypothesis, is that, 'inside the Milky Way Galaxy', close enough to allow visitation or communication within a 0.1-2% speed-of-light propelled mission with humans on board (or them on board coming here) in actual (not virtual) "ships", full-sized (not nanoprobes) visiting is extremely unlikely in our lifetimes, in the past 500 years, in the future 500 years, given a 25ly diameter sphere (100 stars).

Beyond that who knows. It's kind of foolish to ask the question about a BIGGER sphere than that. People just don't understand the vastness of Space.

Is it likely that there are very, very, very, very sparsely spread sentient species in the MW Galaxy? Sure, but they're so sparse, so spread out, so rare, so short-lived (given the distance of 30,000 years to reach anyone of them IF we knew where to look) that they might as well NOT BE THERE.

SURE, if we evolve somehow into 5th or 6th dimensional beings (as per "Interstellar") we can just 'look -down- in 5-D space-time-gravity-warp-stacked-compression and see all of them at once. But as 3-D creatures in chemical rockets? Come ON!

IF there are 5th dimensional hyper-space non-terrestrials out there they would have NO INTEREST in us (just like we aren't interested in the Sunday Newspaper funnies of Peanuts characters (2-D 'beings')).

The ET alien race, labeled the "Reptilians," is most likely a misnomer. A bipedal reptilian race probably would not advance far on the evolutionary scale of biological entities --- but a warm blooded humanoid bipedal dinosauroid race --- would have the chance [given the time] too achieve high intelligence.

Warm blooded...meaning a different warm blooded system from homo sapiens, but a similar warm blooded system, as in our own former dinosaurs, that lived 65 million years ago.

Cheers,


Erno

The ET dinosauroids, could easily be mistaken for "grays," but they might be of the three fingered hands/three toed feet variety.

Wormholes aside...the only probable method for these interstellar capable starships to reach our planet in a reasonable amount of time, would be a starship capable of superluminal [faster than light] speeds.

originally posted by: draknoir2

originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
I believe that convincing oneself that humans are the only possible lifeform in all of existence is the height of arrogance.

This statement is as insightful as it is original.
I just had an idea for a drinking game...

My liver couldn't take it.

originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
It also includes the other possibility: that the universe is teeming with life.

But not teeming quite enough for it to be obvious. So, maybe, not quite so much.

But I'm sure your credentials are far more impeccable than Dr. Drakes. I don't claim to KNOW anything, I live in a universe in which "nothing is true and everything is permitted". Therefore, I discount nothing, as I am not such a fool to think that I have even the slightest understanding of truth. I don't. Anyone that claims they do is just kidding themselves.

Hey, it's his equation. And it's not difficult; it's just basic math. I may not be as smart as Pythagoras was either, but I can figure out a2 + b2 = c2. If one of the Drake Equation variables equals zero (including some other variables we probably don't even know about), the whole thing does. The reason the Drake Equation is so useless is that it includes variables the values of which we will never, ever know.

What it boils down to is that until we find an alien civilization, we don't know if there are any more out there. If we find an alien civilization, then we will know for sure that there are at least two. Well, DUH!

Extraterrestrial life and intelligence almost certainly exists elsewhere in our galaxy. That seems to be the current scientific consensus based upon years and years of research in various disciplines from evolutionary biology to astrophysics.

UFOs are a different matter altogether and do not of themselves constitute proof of the above so far.

I said so far because that could change tomorrow. But as of today there is no credible evidence which can be repeatedly examined that any UFO incident represents a visitation by ETs.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
It also includes the other possibility: that the universe is teeming with life.

But not teeming quite enough for it to be obvious. So, maybe, not quite so much.

But I'm sure your credentials are far more impeccable than Dr. Drakes. I don't claim to KNOW anything, I live in a universe in which "nothing is true and everything is permitted". Therefore, I discount nothing, as I am not such a fool to think that I have even the slightest understanding of truth. I don't. Anyone that claims they do is just kidding themselves.

Hey, it's his equation. And it's not difficult; it's just basic math. I may not be as smart as Pythagoras was either, but I can figure out a2 + b2 = c2. If one of the Drake Equation variables equals zero (including some other variables we probably don't even know about), the whole thing does.

Incorrect.

The reason the Drake Equation is so useless is that it includes variables the values of which we will never, ever know.

Again, incorrect. Never is a long time. We know several of the variables and learn more about them each day and WE ALREADY KNOW how to find the variables which we don't know.



All it takes is money.

For more information please see this thread: ATS: The Drake Equation - Illustrated and Clarified (INFOGRAPHIC)