Questions about the ET/UFO thing

Despite being open to it, some things about the UFO/ET thing make me think it's unlikely they exist in the real world. At this point I don't think ETs exist in our proximity but I do recognise there are some unknown sky phenomena/sightings which I, of course, lack explanation to. As there's a lot to do about the subject on this site I was wondering what your views are on my concerns and doubts regarding the existence of extraterrestrials and their vehicles.

First, why do eyewitness accounts vary so wildly?

If I'd be to believe that aliens are here, there'd be so many species it's (to me) beyond any credibility. I can imagine 1 kind or several from the same planet or even galaxy given that they can fly or go anywhere they please. I mean, some other races/species could hop along but it just seems... no-ish. Especially if their intentions regarding us human beings differ so much which is apparently the case according to some theories and testimonies. I mean, if I'd go on a safari and I'd let a friend hop along but he went with the intention of hunting some wildlife while I'd just want to see them, I wouldn't invite him or her a second time if he or she insists on killing wild animals.

With regards to the species: there's the well-known grey type alien. Then there're reptilians. There're even Hitler's wet-dream-like creatures who're almost annoyingly perfect with a very light skin, beautiful face and light-blonde hair who seem to be the archetype of nazi racial ideology or northern Europeans. We have different grey alien types if I may believe the descriptions and we have hybrids as well. There're really tall being or even giants and generally enough to fill an undoubtedly extremely fascinating extraterrestrials zoo but it's just an overload!

It just makes it all seem less credible to me.

Second, I'd like to mention that even within one species, the descriptions can differ so much. If 10 people'd describe a mouse they saw and every one of them was sane and not trying to be funny in the most childish way, they'd focus on different aspects of the creature 'mouse' but there wouldn't be any green mice, or fire-spitting mice, or flying mice, etc. With aliens it's not like with mice. If there're aliens abducting or interacting with people, wouldn't the accounts be a lot more similar? Regarding their spacecrafts, what they want from us, where they reside even (underground? the moon? the hollow earth perhaps?*)
*theory: volcanic eruptions are actually just covers for aliens to leave the earth's inside without being seen! Everyone's too busy running, right?

The descriptions and opinions are all over the place. I'm more inclined to believe in shadow people or ghosts as there's more consistency to their descriptions and the encounters with them. But aliens really seem to be an extra-odd branch of the paranormal thing. Outrageous descriptions of sightings, encounters and telepathic communication seem to create a mist of craziness around the somewhat more credible or believable theories and descriptions.

Third: the evidence seems lacking. ''All'' we have (not denying existence of unknown/unexplainable vehicles or things in the sky) are UFO sightings but we don't have much clear footage and ''MIB'' doesn't really cut it. As of yet, there's no un-debunked proof of an alien body being found. The things that remain are few and far between. Admittedly I've stopped reading about it years ago and recently picked it up again and find this site fun and all, but is there currently any really compelling evidence?

I also don't really buy the 'ancient civilisations mentioned them-argument'. Peoples all over the world and throughout time and history made abstract or otherwise not true to nature images with often a purpose of magic, story and legend telling, describing glorious victories or depicting aesthetic and beauty ideals. The purpose isn't to literally represent reality and as such, facial and bodily features may be exaggerated or otherwise changed into a more art-like shape. Enlarged eyes etc don't surprise me much as the eyes and mouth are what people initially look at when they see/meet someone. It's important for understanding each other. And as to flying saucer-shapes... are you sure they didn't intend to depict a floating vagina or something?

I must note that I don't deny eyewitness accounts; that's not up to me. I don't quickly doubt the sincerity of such stories as people'd discredit themselves more than anything and many people seem genuine and sincere. I acknowledge that there're some really strange phenomena but I have issues with the explanation attached to it.

Fourth: I seem to notice a certain religious argument when the legitimacy of evidence or a theory is being questioned:
''Their technology is way beyond what we know and can imagine!''

I call it an ''it's magic!-argument''. We cannot understand how or why God would do or not do something, despite how logic-defying it may seem. Because we just can't understand it and there's an underlying premise that God knows everything and can do anything no matter what. The same argument seems to creep up with UFOs and such but then it's not God, witches or magic but technology. It's not very convincing. It almost seems like a badly-written story, where all of the troubles and Mean Villains stop being Mean or the troubles stop being troublesome because there was a huge build-up of riddles and problems and then *woosh!* the tooth fairy appears and BAM! *glitterglitter yay!* it's all over. It's almost disappointing. The viewer might ask: but why? ==> well, it's awesome tooth fairy magic, you silly! Even when it's logically impossible. (logically within the story, as in: even with magic, logic stays an issue)

Last but not least, it seems a relatively new and western-world related thing. As far as I know it's only really a thing in the USA. Didn't the hype start around the 1940s-1950s, right in the middle of a technological boom and rising worldwide tensions and the threat of the end of the simple world looming? (you know, where you actually felt like you had some control over your surrounding, instead of the new technological horrors and the dreadful possibility of Russians throwing God-knows-what kind of futuristic semi-sci-fi secret weapons at us) It also seems a bit like the UFO designs follow human trends in terms of car, train and general device design.

I'm actually asking what the people on ATS think. I'm not debating here as I don't even really have a standpoint; I'm inconclusive and don't believe I could or want to win or even argue such a discussion. As of yet I'm open to the whole idea but I was wondering what your take on it is. I also must admit that I'm starting to read about the whole thing again after some years even though I read quite extensive amounts at the time. Now that I'm catching up a bit again it occurs how anecdotal it all is.

Aliens and Extraterrestrial Crafts vary in description for the exact same reasons Ghosts, Spirits, Gods, and Demons all vary in description. They are social constructions that are influenced by local cultural norms.

They are all in your mind.

I believe that convincing oneself that humans are the only possible lifeform in all of existence is the height of arrogance. Really, it's all just a matter of what you choose to believe. When one is exposed to certain truths in person one finds it difficult to dismiss the existence of such entities and until irrefutable evidence is presented to one directly one will likely continue to dismiss the existence of NHEBEs (non-human extraterrestrial biological entities).

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Pitou

Only read the first phrase and came to the conclusion: you're an idiot.

Dude, you don't need to call him an idiot because he disagrees with you. Let's not let ATS become like that other website where trolls are fed daily... Remember: Attack the BALL not the player.

a reply to: Peeple

You should have kept reading.

“it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to talk and remove all doubt.” - Mark Twain

a reply to: AgentShillington

Yeah I made alien contact, what did you do? I don't care it's maths you know, no opinion, but kind of proof, so....

a reply to: Pitou

Perhaps , because there are many different species.

I had an OBE once, where I found myself having an OBE and was on a spaceship which was invisible to earth, yet we were there looking down on earth, and the beings told me how there was too much war on the planet, and that I as a sensitive surely have noticed, and that they are not here to interfere but observe.
And they even told me how they had the technology to remain unseen to us.
They also told me how they've been talking to many people who will listen about how we are becoming more and more aggressive, and also at the same time destroying our planet.

There were 3 different looking aliens in my OBE experience: the typical greys, which seemed to be operating the craft, then fair skinned beings and darker skinned beings , the fair skinned ones were talking to me.

I've had OBE's since early childhood, and even out into space, but it was the first time I found myself in a spaceship.

They told me they weren't here to intervene, only observe, and only, I repeat only intervene if something severe happened.

They also considered us very intelligent beings, and most of us very spiritual, but said that a lot of humans still had a long way to go.
Then they showed me what could happen if WWIII ever broke out, and I saw the nuclear explosion from space. It scared me so much I zapped right back into my body.

That was the only OBE I ever had with them.

I've had various visions, and my family has generations of seers, but this still shocked me to my core.
I never wish to see them again. Not because they were scary, they weren't, but what they showed to me was.

But I'm just another witness with no proof.
Just sharing my 2 cents.
I've never met any other aliens, only those on the spaceship, and it was only that one time, but it was enough to make me believe.

I guess it's one of those things that you simply have to experience to believe it.

originally posted by: Pitou
First, why do eyewitness accounts vary so wildly?

My current thought about that is because real UFOs represent a phenomenon that is just on the edge of our ability to perceive and comprehend, so a lot of it has to do with how an individual perceives partial-reality different than the person next to them. We can both look at the same nine-dimensional thing passing through our reality, but we don't view it from exactly the same perspective. We look at it with our human minds and brains and kind of/sort of get the impression that the UFO is some kind of flying machine, because that's what we know and understand. But we don't necessarily see it as exactly the same kind of machine. Or even what it really is. (Some kind of perspective impression? A physical thought? An echo of a creature from the future?)

When it comes to UFOs, the level of reality is so complex and beyond our monkey brains that there's essentially no way to get an objective description of them.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Pitou

Aliens are a very real mathematical possibility

I.e. the drake equation:

The Drake equation is a probabilistic argument used to estimate the number of active, communicative extraterrestrial civilizations in the Milky Way galaxy. The equation was written in 1961 by Frank Drake not for purposes of quantifying the number of civilizations,[1] but intended as a way to stimulate scientific dialogue at the world's first search for extraterrestrial intelligence (SETI) meeting, in Green Bank, West Virginia. The equation summarizes the main concepts which scientists must contemplate when considering the question of other radio-communicative life.[1] The Drake equation has proved controversial since several of its factors are currently unknown, and estimates of their values span a very wide range. This has led critics to label the equation a guesstimate, or even meaningless.

Drake equation Wiki

How can we estimate the number of technological civilizations that might exist among the stars? While working as a radio astronomer at the National Radio Astronomy Observatory in Green Bank, West Virginia, Dr. Frank Drake conceived an approach to bound the terms involved in estimating the number of technological civilizations that may exist in our galaxy. The Drake Equation, as it has become known, was first presented by Drake in 1961 and identifies specific factors thought to play a role in the development of such civilizations. Although there is no unique solution to this equation, it is a generally accepted tool used by the scientific community to examine these factors.
-- Frank Drake, 1961

N = The number of civilizations in The Milky Way Galaxy whose electromagnetic emissions are detectable.

R* = The rate of formation of stars suitable for the development of intelligent life.

fp = The fraction of those stars with planetary systems.

ne = The number of planets, per solar system, with an environment suitable for life.

fl = The fraction of suitable planets on which life actually appears.

fi = The fraction of life bearing planets on which intelligent life emerges.

fc = The fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space.

L = The length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into space.

Within the limits of our existing technology, any practical search for distant intelligent life must necessarily be a search for some manifestation of a distant technology. In each of its last four decadal reviews, the National Research Council has emphasized the relevance and importance of searching for evidence of the electromagnetic signature of distant civilizations.

Besides illuminating the factors involved in such a search, the Drake Equation is a simple, effective tool for stimulating intellectual curiosity about the universe around us, for helping us to understand that life as we know it is the end product of a natural, cosmic evolution, and for making us realize how much we are a part of that universe. A key goal of the SETI Institute is to further high quality research that will yield additional information related to any of the factors of this fascinating equation.

The DE has been discussed to death but is no less viable in my opinion.

source

a reply to: Peeple

I'm sure you did, and I'm sure it was wonderful for you. This is not sarcasm, I firmly believe that you believe it happened, and that's awesome.

Now, about what I did? I read the rest of the OP. Maybe you should too. It will help you be a more productive member of the thread.

First, I believe there are UFO's. They have been spotted long before the first airplane ever existed. There are also astronauts, police officers, airplane pilots and people from all over the world and walks of life who have witnessed seeing them. You then have to ask who or what is piloting those flying objects. Some may be our own craft and a certain percentage has to be form elsewhere.

originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
Aliens are a very real mathematical possibility

.
Including the possibility of zero, if just one of the variables equals zero. Which is curiously just about how useful the Drake Equation is for real calculation = zero.

a reply to: AgentShillington

Sorry for not being patient enough for you, but there was a help offer back in march, yes it was wonderful, but unfortunately, very dark times are ahead, I am not saying doom, but some want to get their asses kicked, and can't tell fiction from a fact... I just don't care anymore, for all that arrogant #heads thinking the earth is all there for them and the universe is just for them... it isn't we are on the very edge of our #ty little galaxy, that's just a tiny fragment of the entire universe... I am just pissed at human ignorance and arrogance that's all...

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: CagliostroTheGreat
Aliens are a very real mathematical possibility

.
Including the possibility of zero, if just one of the variables equals zero. Which is curiously just about how useful the Drake Equation is for real calculation = zero.

It also includes the other possibility: that the universe is teeming with life. But I'm sure your credentials are far more impeccable than Dr. Drakes. I don't claim to KNOW anything, I live in a universe in which "nothing is true and everything is permitted". Therefore, I discount nothing, as I am not such a fool to think that I have even the slightest understanding of truth. I don't. Anyone that claims they do is just kidding themselves. All we can do is think we know.

a reply to: Pitou

There are also ETs that look exactly like African/Black people.

a reply to: Pitou

What you are doing is placing this one insigificant planet and species...in a 1% of 1% of 1,000% percent of all the other 1,000,000,000% of other planets and lifeforms out there as we are the ONLY...ONLY ones out there.

Its US in the minority....the majority of the real ones DWARFS us and our species and location. So this whole topic is irrelevant in the scheme of uni-VERSES (PLURAL).

Think about it..........

My personal feeling toward the many designed UFO's is the same as why we here have so many different aircraft designs. Maybe they come from a single world or system and each one is designing their own crafts.

(Side not and yes self promoting here. I'm currently working on an ebook about an old man being abducted by aliens and shown the universe - It's sort of a serious story with some comedy moments but I'm looking for a small piece of advice. I'm trying to work out how I can explain in the book how faster than light travel can be explained without using any actual speech. Imagine you're sat in front of an alien and he has to use some objects to explain it without being able to speak - I've reached this point and cant break through it and its driving me mad. Please help - Oh and It will be free on certain sites just after christmas so I kind of need the help asap.)

a reply to: AgentShillington

Now that you mention it, it'd be highly interesting to read websites or a book about anthropology and perception of things such as ghosts. I really like demonhunterscompendium.blogspot.nl... as there's a lot about 'monsters', legends, mythological beings etc etc from over the world. It's really fun and interesting to read.

Additionally to my comment above...look at it this way: We are one...staring up waitng...and they are MILLIONS....looking down on us wondering why they should bother.

Its not the other way around....mostly....they ignore us.