Public Education vs. Ignorant Parents

a reply to: vexati0n

Ultimately, the rift between education and uneducated parents is a war for the right to shape the hearts and minds of the future. We aren’t just fighting over science or history, we are fighting over who gets to define the world in which we live. And because no one exists in a vacuum, the only rational victor in this must be verifiable, testable truth. Society’s right to educate itself must trump individual parents’ rights to impose narrowmindedness and cowardly conservatism on their children.

Hello, authoritarian. The level of group-think and "we know what is best for you" bs in your post is amazing.

Has it ever occurred to you that neither the state, nor the majority, nor yourself has the right to forcibly educate anyone??

I am an atheist, I know that evolution is true in light of the overwhelming evidence supporting it, I even teach my kids about science--because it is my right to do so. But your entire premise hangs on the false belief that a parent doesn't have the right to choose.

THIS is why we need to get rid of state schools and the department of education. Because of authoritarians like you--whether you're Christian, Atheist, or muslim--I hate you.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

If someone did not have more education about the rest of the world they would have too small of a sample and a single city to measure things from. It's totally insufficient.

Totally insufficient for what?

Evolution is also a theory, but just because it is accepted as true by a large enough section of the population in order to influence those who really dont care

That we did in fact evolve from monkeys and that's how we came about

Do people even want to have a serious discussion with this garbage sentences like above? this is how you know anti-evolutionist are not even ready for debate.

originally posted by: vexati0n
Snipped...

Society’s right to educate itself must trump individual parents’ rights to impose narrowmindedness and cowardly conservatism on their children.

LOL...all that just to call conservatives narrowminded and cowardly? I knew it was coming, but you didn't have to be so long-winded about it.

You contradict yourself a few times in this, which degrades the credibility of your rant to basically zero, because you discuss unproven, often untested things and close with, "the only rational victor in this must be verifiable, testable truth."

I agree with much of what you said in theory, but at the same time, we homeschool our child (soon to be children when my daughter is of age), but it's not necessarily because of what is taught, but the piss-poor methods of teaching and the way that teaching is forced to be a one-size-fits-all, teach-only-for-the-test endeavor. They have no desire to handle children with diagnosed ADHD or Asperger's properly, nor do most teachers in my area feel it necessary to discuss their child's behavior in class until it's parent-teacher night or the kid has gotten in trouble already. No discussions about how good a child is doing or how bad they're struggling. They don't understand the first thing about what/when to feed children, and the tax dollars they spend on the schools never seem to be in the appropriate areas.

Public school systems, for the most part, have become a parody of what true education is. If you want to sing praises about that and lambaste concerned parents with a broad brush, that's up to you--just remember that your narrowminded, cowardly view about what the government should be allowed to do and what parents shouldn't be allowed to do with their own children is asinine. Rant on, just don't generalize so much--it makes you sound like the product of the public school system

The Secular Humanists have had control of the public schools for decades. I sure never learned creationism in grade school. I did learn evolution though.
But I will tell you what the Common Core curriculum is teaching the kids now. It is teaching them Climate Change theory as scientific consensus. The schools are now teaching that evil mankind is causing global warming. Not only is it not really scientifically proven, it is not even backed by a consensus.
What else is in the schools today?
southdakotansagainstcommoncore.com...

Here's what's really happening now in our schools... and I think it's amazing that so many people who are against the Patriot Act do not seem to have even a problem with this....

Bill Gates was one of the leaders of Common Core, putting his personal money into its development, implementation and promotion, so it’s unsurprising that much of this data mining will occur via Microsoft’s Cloud system.
Even the Department of Education, though, admits that privacy is a concern, and that that some of the data gathered may be “of a sensitive nature.” The information collected will be more than sensitive; much of it will also be completely unrelated to education. Data collected will not only include grades, test scores, name, date of birth and social security number, it will also include parents’ political affiliations, individual or familial mental or psychological problems, beliefs, religious practices and income.

In addition, all activities, as well as those deemed demeaning, self-incriminating or anti-social, will be stored in students’ school records. In other words, not only will permanently stored data reflect criminal activities, it will also reflect bullying or anything perceived as abnormal. The mere fact that the White House notes the program can be used to “automatically demonstrate proof of competency in a work setting” means such data is intended to affect students’ futures.

Common Core program has been heavily scrutinized recently for the fact that its curriculum teaches young children to use emotionally charged language to manipulate others and teaches students how to become community organizers and experts of the U.N.’s agenda 21.

benswann.com...

I wonder how the OP feels about this type of education.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

And in secular schools at least kids are being taught to base for example views on the scientific method, not the Bible or Koran or something.

Oh really?
Apparently Climate Disruption Theory is being presented as a "settled science".... so I doubt that school kids are being taught real scientific methods.
Apparently secular humanist educators have forgotten their pledge to purge all schools of religious doctrine in their attempt to enforce separation of church and state standards.

For example, several years ago seventh-graders at a San Francisco-area school were required to “become Muslims” for two full weeks as part of California’s world history curriculum. This included professing as “true” the Muslim belief that “The Holy Quran is God’s word,” reciting the Muslim profession of faith — “Allah is the only true God and Muhammad is his messenger” —and chanting “Praise be to Allah.”

www.frontpagemag.com...

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

You attempted to substitute parental intelligence for real training in education.

No I did not.... you read it as such because you were in autopilot defense mode.

Therefore, since I said no such thing, you're analogy was obviously illogical.


The fact that you misinterpreted the overall context of my post only demonstrates your inability to fully comprehend what you were reading at the time that you read it.

Put down the boxing gloves, go back and reread what I posted... it should become clearer to you the second time around with regards to the point I was actually making.

There IS a virtual consensus by peer-reviewed, trained CLIMATE and environmental scientists on anthropogenic climate change.

There are very few PEER-REVIEWED studies from CREDIBLE scientific institutions that dispute climate change. Most support it.

To us science people most of you just seem like reactionaries that cannot handle the idea of anthropogenic climate change and refuse to look at the data because it would make you have to alter human modes of being and economics. It would force you to reexamine the entire paradigm of man's relation to the environment. It would make you.. responsible.

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
The Secular Humanists have had control of the public schools for decades. I sure never learned creationism in grade school. I did learn evolution though.
But I will tell you what the Common Core curriculum is teaching the kids now. It is teaching them Climate Change theory as scientific consensus. The schools are now teaching that evil mankind is causing global warming. Not only is it not really scientifically proven, it is not even backed by a consensus.
What else is in the schools today?
southdakotansagainstcommoncore.com...

Here's what's really happening now in our schools... and I think it's amazing that so many people who are against the Patriot Act do not seem to have even a problem with this....

Bill Gates was one of the leaders of Common Core, putting his personal money into its development, implementation and promotion, so it’s unsurprising that much of this data mining will occur via Microsoft’s Cloud system.
Even the Department of Education, though, admits that privacy is a concern, and that that some of the data gathered may be “of a sensitive nature.” The information collected will be more than sensitive; much of it will also be completely unrelated to education. Data collected will not only include grades, test scores, name, date of birth and social security number, it will also include parents’ political affiliations, individual or familial mental or psychological problems, beliefs, religious practices and income.

In addition, all activities, as well as those deemed demeaning, self-incriminating or anti-social, will be stored in students’ school records. In other words, not only will permanently stored data reflect criminal activities, it will also reflect bullying or anything perceived as abnormal. The mere fact that the White House notes the program can be used to “automatically demonstrate proof of competency in a work setting” means such data is intended to affect students’ futures.

Common Core program has been heavily scrutinized recently for the fact that its curriculum teaches young children to use emotionally charged language to manipulate others and teaches students how to become community organizers and experts of the U.N.’s agenda 21.

benswann.com...

I wonder how the OP feels about this type of education.

You now have two both utterly offensive and ignorant posts in a row. Two for two.

And in both, you utterly failed to actually address the points I made. You just blew them off because clearly, you know nothing about it. I've spent ten years working in it and studying it, both domestically and globally. But clearly, you know all about it, guaranteed without any training in it nor professional experience.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Ug.

Another political reference.

Fail again and again.

What's the next excuse going to focus on?

It's not ignorant parents or ignorant students.

It's ignorant educators and administrators.

All they know is how to suck the money up in anonymity.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Your points are useless malarkey.

You have no solutions.

Just blame and excuses for failure.

The educators have been at this for decades.

Fail. Trash. Rubbish.

Schools are supposed to teach what the evidence and current scientific and expert community says on a variety of subjects, from black holes to climate change to WWII history.

What they are NOT supposed to teach is paranoia or non-data based ideas or positions, unless we are of course talking about history, philosophy, or perhaps religion classes.

This does not mean that dissenting positions should not be taught. On the contrary. But those have to be weighted. Students shouldn't be taught a dissenting position as valid if evidence does not support it. Or, such a position could be presented but then shown why it doesn't match the data. That should go for all subjects and topics. Not all opinions or beliefs are equal about various topics. Some health interventions for example have far more evidence for them than others.

And I am from California.

Have you considered that students are required to explore other religions, cultures, and so on to get out of their own culture and really understand others? You know, it is called cultural understanding and empathy.

Now, I would say they should have to do the same with Hinduism or myriad other religions. I have no problem if philosophy and history of religion is taught, as long as all are introduced and not with an attempt to proselytize in any manner.

They probably focused on Islam precisely because of the huge American generalized backlash against Muslims after 911 and the War on Terror, which has created a lot of hatred and bigotry towards Muslims.

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

And in secular schools at least kids are being taught to base for example views on the scientific method, not the Bible or Koran or something.

Oh really?
Apparently Climate Disruption Theory is being presented as a "settled science".... so I doubt that school kids are being taught real scientific methods.
Apparently secular humanist educators have forgotten their pledge to purge all schools of religious doctrine in their attempt to enforce separation of church and state standards.

For example, several years ago seventh-graders at a San Francisco-area school were required to “become Muslims” for two full weeks as part of California’s world history curriculum. This included professing as “true” the Muslim belief that “The Holy Quran is God’s word,” reciting the Muslim profession of faith — “Allah is the only true God and Muhammad is his messenger” —and chanting “Praise be to Allah.”

www.frontpagemag.com...

A person is losing an argument who is unable to respond to specific well-informed and evidence-based points with nothing but dismissal.

Everything I put about many of the basic causes of educational problems has a huge amount of evidence and studies behind it.

Second, you say "i have no solutions." You know nothing about my solutions, nor what I have done, nor what I work in. But I'm sure layperson Xuenchen magically is some expert now, and omniscient about "my solutions."

Good job, I'm out, and thanks for playing.

originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Your points are useless malarkey.

You have no solutions.

Just blame and excuses for failure.

The educators have been at this for decades.

Fail. Trash. Rubbish.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Another great example.



I accept your concession in advance.

I see a divisive future.

On one side will be the population grown up in a state-dictated-indoctrination educational environment.

On the other side?

People who were raised to question. People who were raised to see the truth, not what the state determines the truth to be.


On one side will be followers, people who were taught to obey. People who were taught that guns are scary. People who were taught that victimhood is okay. People who were taught that fighting back is wrong.

On the other side?

Individuals. Leaders. Risk-takers.

Of course, this is only my opinion. But I have 5 decades of anecdotal evidence to back it up.

a reply to: xuenchen

Eh he's posted page after page of well thought out arguments. It's not exactly the same thing

"Your points are useless malarkey.

You have no solutions.

Just blame and excuses for failure.

The educators have been at this for decades.

Fail. Trash. Rubbish. "

Sounds like you are just blaming the educators and have no solutions. But I'm sure you think you've won even though you added nothing constructive to the conversation. Way to accuse him of being hypocritical with a hypocritical post attacking him.

Yes I'm aware of my own hypocrisy in this post so don't point it out and pretend you're being constructive.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

There IS a virtual consensus by peer-reviewed, trained CLIMATE and environmental scientists on anthropogenic climate change.

No, there is not! Whatever you believe is consensus is manufactured by the people who are pushing the Global Warming theory. It should be evident that the reason they had to change the name of their theory from Global Warming to Climate Change to Climate Disruption is because the entire theory is faulty and because sunspots are the real cause of global warming and not co2 from coal and Suvs.
The IPCC manufactured "consensus" from a handful of scientific papers, and the authors of some of them declared that they were misrepresented. Even Al Gore cannot possibly believe it as he built a mansion home right on the ocean, so if he believed his own theory, he would know that the oceans rising would destroy his mansion. Or maybe he just figured he had enough money to rebuild.
Anyway, it should not be taught as a foregone conclusion any more than the earth being 6000 years old should be taught.
But this is what I am talking about, that Common Core curriculum is indoctrinating the youth into the globalist theories of Agenda 21 hysteria-based depopulation agendas. I know you don't want to believe that. But that is where much of this Global Warming came out of...although if I didn't have to be polite I might suggest it came from elsewhere....but that is another story... in any case it is indoctrination not education.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

What they are NOT supposed to teach is paranoia or non-data based ideas or positions, unless we are of course talking about history, philosophy, or perhaps religion classes.

Yes, my thought exactly. Hence NO Islamic Quran, no caliphate based on Allah being the only true God, no hysteria of Global Warming based on humans driving SUVs. I thought religion was forbidden in secular public schools?

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Lol. Which school is teaching the Quran? Teaching climate change is as radical as teaching evolution. Both are theories widely supported by scientists and dismissed by right wing Christians.

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

There was a consensus that smoking is bad for your health and that didn't become accepted fact for decades thanks to laymen with agendas. Same with the earth not being the center of the universe and the earth being round

Show me a list of peer-reviewed studies from credible scientific institutions that are against anthropogenic climate change? There may be a few, but the vast majority are for.

The facts are, we ARE negatively and severely harming our interconnected environment, the environment from which we derive our livelihoods and very breath.

THAT, is undeniable from myriad scientific studies.

Agenda 21 and all of the sustainable development negotiations, which I work with and study, are NOT this nefarious plan. They are ambitious and real plans to change the dangerous trajectory of mankind regarding the environment.

It's called responsibility.

There is nothing "conservative" about destroying the environment.

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

There IS a virtual consensus by peer-reviewed, trained CLIMATE and environmental scientists on anthropogenic climate change.

No, there is not! Whatever you believe is consensus is manufactured by the people who are pushing the Global Warming theory. It should be evident that the reason they had to change the name of their theory from Global Warming to Climate Change to Climate Disruption is because the entire theory is faulty and because sunspots are the real cause of global warming and not co2 from coal and Suvs.
The IPCC manufactured "consensus" from a handful of scientific papers, and the authors of some of them declared that they were misrepresented. Even Al Gore cannot possibly believe it as he built a mansion home right on the ocean, so if he believed his own theory, he would know that the oceans rising would destroy his mansion. Or maybe he just figured he had enough money to rebuild.
Anyway, it should not be taught as a foregone conclusion any more than the earth being 6000 years old should be taught.
But this is what I am talking about, that Common Core curriculum is indoctrinating the youth into the globalist theories of Agenda 21 hysteria-based depopulation agendas. I know you don't want to believe that. But that is where much of this Global Warming came out of...although if I didn't have to be polite I might suggest it came from elsewhere....but that is another story... in any case it is indoctrination not education.